Watermark? huh? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

11/23/2009 04:48:28 PM · #156

Originally posted by Photologist:

I believe many photographers here on this site use the Photoshop "Save for web..." option when submitting images for challenges.

His point was that the new 300KB file size would give you enough space to keep the EXIF data with a regular Save if you'd like to have that info embedded.

Photologist

Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max

11/23/2009 06:03:52 PM · #157

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Photologist:
I believe many photographers here on this site use the Photoshop "Save for web..." option when submitting images for challenges.

His point was that the new 300KB file size would give you enough space to keep the EXIF data with a regular Save if you'd like to have that info embedded.

Understood. I just wanted to advise folks that they can't depend on adding the extra copyright EXIF/IPTC information if you use the "Save for web..." feature of Photoshop.

.

Message edited by author 2009-11-23 18:04:23.

kandykarml

Nikon D80

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

11/23/2009 06:44:16 PM · #158

Originally posted by johst582:

Just out of curiousity - What other photographic sites are we trying to be up to speed with?
Neither 1x nor Flickr have transparent overlays...

I'm not familiar with 1x, but on Flickr, we have the option to remove any image at any time... Can't do the same with DPC..It's here forever.. So, they aren't on the same level in that sense...

rich

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

11/23/2009 07:19:30 PM · #159

Originally posted by johst582:

Just out of curiousity - What other photographic sites are we trying to be up to speed with?
Neither 1x nor Flickr have transparent overlays...

Flickr does. It depends on what the individual photographer has turned on for privacy.

From Flickr's privacy page - and note they have the same caveat that is always brought up - the fact that overlays will not thwart someone who is determined - only the casual image swiper:

"Preventing people from downloading something also means that a transparent image will be positioned over the image on the main photo page, which is intended to discourage* people from right-clicking to save, or dragging the image on to their desktop.

* By "discourage" we do mean simply "discourage". Please understand that if a photo can be viewed in a web browser, it can be downloaded. The transparent image overlaid on the photo will not keep your images safe from theft, and is intended only as a slight hindrance to downloading."

11/23/2009 09:55:46 PM · #160

Originally posted by Azrifel:

Originally posted by basssman7:
This site expects us to give them usage of our images FOREVER (that has got to change... photogs should have the option to pull their images whenever they wish...they do belong to the photographer after all!) so the site should be obligated to help keep our images from being stolen.

If they are not going to institute a watermark we can opt into, then it is even more of a reason for them to allow us to pull our images whenever we want since they are ours to begin with. Then I could pull my images as soon as the voting was done and not have to worry about any of this crap.

Why bother to put it in voting at all eh?

Ummm, because the whole point of a challenge is to see how your image stacks up against others based on a common theme? Believe it or now a large number of dpc users actually consider a challenge to be a challenge. The purpose of the images are not always for everyone to look at afterwords. That can easily be done on flikr or a zillion other sites where you CAN upload an image that is watermarked.

11/23/2009 11:24:49 PM · #161

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by basssman7:
This site expects us to give them usage of our images FOREVER (that has got to change... photogs should have the option to pull their images whenever they wish...they do belong to the photographer after all!)

You grant DPC a perpetual license to display the challenge entries as part of the Terms of Use to which you agree when you register. If you want to remove your images at will then just put them in your Portfolio -- those you can remove whenever you wish -- and don't enter them into the challenges. Challenge results with entries removed would be pretty pointless ...

I guess that depends on your idea of pointless. If you are talking about wanting others to admire your work and give you pats on the back then you would be correct. Personally I believe that there would still be many interested in a site which you use to enter challenges for the sake of a challenge. However even if you agree with your premise that it would make the site pointless, then it is even more of a reason to allow photographers to OPT IN to a watermark that appears after the voting is over.

Not giving paid members an opportunity to protect their work from theft because the site might be concerned about advertising dollars dropping is a pretty crummy thing to do. Many of us have been asking for watermarks as an option after voting for years and it has not happened. Now with an even larger photo being entered it is even more important. Those that like it can opt in, those that don't, don't. Why is it an issue?

manavg

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/23/2009 11:54:03 PM · #162

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by manavg:
Does this work in Firefox? I can save *any* picture (I tried about half a dozen from different challenges) and I can save them... what am I missing?

and are they there when you go to view them? or is it just a black dot?

I can view them

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

11/24/2009 05:54:20 AM · #163

Originally posted by basssman7:

Not giving paid members an opportunity to protect their work from theft because the site might be concerned about advertising dollars dropping is a pretty crummy thing to do.

Taking this kind of tone & attitude is a pretty crummy thing to do.

Nobody ever held a gun to your head and forced you to enter challenges.

Why all of a sudden because YOU get a case of remorse for YOUR lack of foresight does this make the site a bad guy?

This is freakin' GREAT!!! I just got this quote in a message!

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

Bottom line is.......you did not think about this and decide that it's a problem 'til after the fact.

I would suggest that you accept the responsibility for your own decision, and not enter challenges until something is done that meets with your approval.

NOTHING has changed, so don't try and make the site out to be a bad guy because you've thought about it afterward. If you chose not to read the ToS in such a manner that you fully understood the ramifications of what you were doing, whose fault is that?

And this isn't just directed at Ernie, either.......apparently, you who have decided that this situation is no longer tolerable feel no compunction about berating the site for it.....why is that?

ETA: For the record, though I do forsee some degradation in the viewing experience because of watermarks, in the interest of harmony, I hope that you get something that will appease your protection interests.

From a completely twisted perspective.......I view all of these issues like contraception.....good measues, but not complete security.

The only sure thing is abstinence! LOL!!!

Message edited by author 2009-11-24 06:43:23.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/24/2009 06:52:37 AM · #164

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

Bottom line is.......you did not think about this and decide that it's a problem 'til after the fact.

I would suggest that you accept the responsibility for your own decision, and not enter challenges until something is done that meets with your approval.

Yes, but to quote another oft cited tidbit, hindsight is 20/20.
Also, I see no problem with somebody striving to make an improvement somewhere instead of sitting around and taking things as they are if they feel the need. I have a hard time imagining everybody on this site being 100% pleased with how their respective country is run, and yet, I don't see everybody moving away to another country, either. Maybe people like this place enough without the watermarking to stay sans watermark? Just because something works doesn't mean it can't work better. To put things another way, it is a fact that piracy is a problem in the digital world and it is also a fact that members of this site feel something needs to be done. Can we ignore this as well?

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

11/24/2009 08:35:33 AM · #165

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by basssman7:
Not giving paid members an opportunity to protect their work from theft because the site might be concerned about advertising dollars dropping is a pretty crummy thing to do.

Taking this kind of tone & attitude is a pretty crummy thing to do.

Nobody ever held a gun to your head and forced you to enter challenges.

Why all of a sudden because YOU get a case of remorse for YOUR lack of foresight does this make the site a bad guy?

This is freakin' GREAT!!! I just got this quote in a message!

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

Bottom line is.......you did not think about this and decide that it's a problem 'til after the fact.

I would suggest that you accept the responsibility for your own decision, and not enter challenges until something is done that meets with your approval.

NOTHING has changed, so don't try and make the site out to be a bad guy because you've thought about it afterward. If you chose not to read the ToS in such a manner that you fully understood the ramifications of what you were doing, whose fault is that?

And this isn't just directed at Ernie, either.......apparently, you who have decided that this situation is no longer tolerable feel no compunction about berating the site for it.....why is that?

ETA: For the record, though I do forsee some degradation in the viewing experience because of watermarks, in the interest of harmony, I hope that you get something that will appease your protection interests.

From a completely twisted perspective.......I view all of these issues like contraception.....good measues, but not complete security.

The only sure thing is abstinence! LOL!!!

He's just stating his thoughts Jeb. Why do you need to cut him down for it? Almost everyone here wants a choice and that's not too much to ask I think.

Give us the choice to see them or not and WE'LL make up our own minds. If you think a watermark takes away from your viewing pleasure and my images aren't stolen anymore as easily as they are now, well, that's just too bad for you. ;|
____________________________________________________________________

Can watermarks be made to appear only after a download? You see a pic you like without watermarks, you right click to save it and when you view it in your image browser a beautiful watermark shows up. Who's going to keep a watermarked image?

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

11/24/2009 08:58:18 AM · #166

Originally posted by Jac:

Can watermarks be made to appear only after a download?

No.

Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS USM

11/24/2009 09:20:06 AM · #167

Originally posted by Jac:

He's just stating his thoughts Jeb. Why do you need to cut him down for it? Almost everyone here wants a choice and that's not too much to ask I think.

I object to the way he stated it......it sounds like he's saying that there was some kind of purpose, or bent towards making it that way.

I feel fairly confident that it was an oversight because it never occurred to D&L.

Originally posted by basssman7:

Not giving paid members an opportunity to protect their work from theft because the site might be concerned about advertising dollars dropping is a pretty crummy thing to do.

I'm not disputing that it's what many want, and that it would be helpful for the harmony of the site to work with the request.

But to NOT acknowledge that the oversight, and the choice was made on the part of the entrant/ember/user is just unfair.

Everybody's a grownup here......why not work toward an agreeable solution without making "crummy" remarks?

Originally posted by Jac:

Give us the choice to see them or not and WE'LL make up our own minds. If you think a watermark takes away from your viewing pleasure and my images aren't stolen anymore as easily as they are now, well, that's just too bad for you. ;|

Please read this previous statement from me:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

For the record, though I do forsee some degradation in the viewing experience because of watermarks, in the interest of harmony, I hope that you get something that will appease your protection interests.

Is there anything unclear about this that would make you think that I don't want this in the interests of peace of not for my own personal preferences?

It's fine if you don't care if I look at your images 'cause they're watermarked.....espicially if that makes you feel more comfortable.

My only concern is absolutely subjective. I have been on sites that started down this increasingly demanding path......they suffered much for it.

I even saw one implode, never to regain the magical community it once had.

I don't see the harmony and camaraderie that I am used to here at DPC.

Remember this......this is a site that is wholly owned by someone who is trying to make something of his vision. It's based on his perspective of how it's going. If he ever decides that the grief outweighs the good times, it's gone in a heartbeat.

I like this place a lot, but it just seems that there has been an inordinate amount of bitching, and demands being put forth in a manner not conducive to reasonable requests.

Telling someone the system that's been in place and working okay is "crummy", and alluding to it being all about them is an example of that.......especially when it was a completely knowledgeable and informed choice made by the speaker. And again, if he didn't know, where does the onus of that lie?

I hope y'all get your watermarks.......then maybe we can get back to the fun stuff.

rider

Canon EOS-7D

11/24/2009 09:50:08 AM · #168

i really don't understand the problem here except for challenge entries if you want a watermark put 1 on all great art thru history has been signed by it artist if you feel this is correct sign your work if you don't care don't why does everything have to be such a big deel?why do we have to make mountains out of molehills? isn't it enough to enjoy the art and be supportive of it?

11/24/2009 03:22:40 PM · #169

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

First of all, thank you Jac and others for understanding my perspective.

Jeb, the reason why my point about watermarks and the TOS forcing us to allow the site to use our photos forever was so harshly worded was because it is something that always seems to get missed for some reason and I am tired of it. Yes, I have entered over 100 challenges in the past and for the majority of that time I was aware of the TOS. What you for some reason seem to have missed was the part where I stated that due to the new 800 pixel size limit it is even more important that our images are protected. I have voiced my opinion on the unlimited time of use before many times, so it is not something new for me. However I was still entering challenges because I enjoy them and it is kind of addicting.

Unfortunately a few months ago I found one of my images that was stolen from here (it is the only place on the net it has ever been without a watermark) being used online to promote a national wakeboarding event in Dubai. After a few emails I managed to get it taken down, but by then the event was over and it was a mute point. Obviously it is not worth an international legal battle even if I did have the means to do so. That got me thinking really hard about the watermarking issue here. Then the new 800 pixels went into effect which makes the problem even worse because of the higher quality un-marked images being available. I have not entered a challenge in almost 3 months.

I am extremely upset at the lack of response from admin, and the remarks from a certain member of site council that seems to spend more time trying to goad people into arguments then actually function as a conduit between members and admin. I hope that perhaps using a real life example of how not having a watermark has in fact enabled theft from this site will bring the point home to you better. The fact is that if the site EXPECTS people to grant unlimited time of use of their images then it is not unreasonable for the people supplying the images which help make the site money to EXPECT the site to help preven the theft of those images. All we are asking for is an opportunity to opt-in to a watermark on our images. Those that do not want to do not have to. It will be done after voting so that the voting is still done with non-watermarked images.

You do not care for the watermarks, so no problem, do not opt-in to it. If you are complaining because you would not want to view other people's images with a watermark then I think it is very selfish outlook.

11/24/2009 04:50:32 PM · #170

NM.....

I give up. You guys just keep making demands. Best of luck.

Message edited by author 2009-11-24 23:02:22.

11/24/2009 05:38:28 PM · #171

Jeb, I really do not see why you take this so personally.

Last time I checked when someone says that you MUST do something if you want to participate that is called forcing, yes.

Again you are saying that I am getting bent out of shape all of a sudden....not true at all. I have been vocally for watermarks for years and the same thing with being against unlimited time of use of our images. For the zillionth time this has really come to a head for me both because the larger sizes make it even more important and the theft of my image for commercial use that was already stated.

The transparent gif layer is a good start, but is definately not the cure all for this problem. An option for a watermark is the best deterent against theft that is possible right now, and since they are MY images, yes I want the option of doing so. What you do with yours is of no concern to me as what I do with mine should be of no concern to you. If somehow there is some magic software that comes out that makes watermarks disappear then it will have to be dealt with at that time. As it stands right now I can hit print screen on my keyboard and paste the screen cap into PS in 2 seconds and have it cropped down to just the image in about 10 seconds. Just because you think there will some day be a way to get rid of the watermark easily is not a reason to dump the idea. That is what I call "beyond the pale".

If I understand correctly the burr under your saddle in this discussion is that you think it is unfair of people to request changes and improvements to the site? Just because you personally feel that it runs just find as is? Is that correct? You really do not care about the watermark, you just think that paid members should not have the right to ask for changes to the site which their images help to make a success?

I was not one of the people attacking you for your views, and suddenly you decide to start attacking mine? Here is a thought for you. If the paying members of this site were to do as you suggest and just shut up and not be so rude as to suggest improvements for the site that they pay to belong to, that they pay to be able to have their images displayed on forever....then they would likely all start to leave because they would be unhappy and not able to express their views. Is that what you would rather have? The site crumble and disappear because apparently we should not make suggestions so the only remaining options for people is to leave?

Last time I checked all members help make this site a success by contributing their images for viewing. That gives them a right to be heard. You can think it is rude all you want, but it is not going to go away. When the site has ignored an issue for many years (and yes, it has been years...it has not just suddenly come up) it is natural that the voices get louder and more abrupt.

11/24/2009 10:43:41 PM · #172

NM.....

I give up. You guys just keep on making demands. Best of luck.

Message edited by author 2009-11-24 23:03:30.

dd1989

Fujifilm x100

11/26/2009 10:30:09 AM · #173

I've said it before and I will say it again. If you use a modern browser like Firefox, saving images is incredibly easy, you don't need any addons or additional software.

Unless you physically watermark the image (which I do not support) then there's no point in the overlay at all.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III