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11/18/2009 10:06:10 AM · #51 |
Well, i think people are already feeling punished when we put them out like that. I don't think it's a bad think to put them out, because something has to be said when you feel offended by something, at least by a PM.
But a "code of ethics" seems too tough for an art photography site IMO.
People should learn from their own mistakes or bad behaviors.
Message edited by author 2009-11-18 10:07:20. |
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11/18/2009 10:12:07 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by pedrobop:
Well, i think people are already feeling punished when we put them out like that. I don't think it's a bad think to put them out, because something has to be said when you feel offended by something, at least by a PM.
But a "code of ethics" seems too tough for an art photography site IMO.
People should learn from their own mistakes or bad behaviors. |
Agreed, they should. But unfortunately it seems they don't.
This would be a reference guide and nothing more. |
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11/18/2009 10:15:38 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by pedrobop:
Well, i think people are already feeling punished when we put them out like that. I don't think it's a bad think to put them out, because something has to be said when you feel offended by something, at least by a PM.
But a "code of ethics" seems too tough for an art photography site IMO.
People should learn from their own mistakes or bad behaviors. |
Agreed, they should. But unfortunately it seems they don't.
This would be a reference guide and nothing more. |
Well...it may sound too unwary (i'm not sure if this is the wright word for this sentence) but i believe they do. The two examples you gave at the first page sounded regretful at their responses.
And we are mostly adults here, we shouldn't expect that kind of mistake at all challenges.
Message edited by author 2009-11-18 10:17:04. |
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11/18/2009 10:19:35 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by pedrobop:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by pedrobop:
Well, i think people are already feeling punished when we put them out like that. I don't think it's a bad think to put them out, because something has to be said when you feel offended by something, at least by a PM.
But a "code of ethics" seems too tough for an art photography site IMO.
People should learn from their own mistakes or bad behaviors. |
Agreed, they should. But unfortunately it seems they don't.
This would be a reference guide and nothing more. |
Well...it may sound too unwary (i'm not sure if this is the wright word for this sentence) but i believe they do. The two examples you gave at the first page sounded regretful at their responses.
And we are mostly adults here, we shouldn't expect that kind of mistake at all challenges. |
And I'm confident those who felt the wrath of the community would be foolish to try something again. This is for the future and averting potential embarrassment for someone else. |
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11/18/2009 10:20:50 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." |
Mmmmm.... Latin quotations.......
Anyway, this proposition is predicated on the assumption that something is broken in DPCLand that needs fixing. As usual, nothing's broken but people's perception. Drafting a "code of ethics" that is unenforceable in relation to the rules is nothing but a shaming device.
In my opinion, Ivo, your viewpoint is so rigid, and your delivery so caustic, that anything you suggest along these lines is going to seem self-serving. |
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11/18/2009 10:29:45 AM · #56 |
You can have your reference and guideline. But to be honest how many people actually read that. I know for one, that I didnt
People have their own moral code. It is up to them to set a guideline as to where it is. You can not enforce it, anymore than you can enforce people in the real world.
People that don't cheat or bend the rules can now take the moral high road and be upset about it and keep up their high standards and bash away, but it wont change anything, you can not change human nature, however much you yell and scream about it. The people that bend the rules or cheat follow their own road and as humans, that is their choice and privilege.
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11/18/2009 10:37:14 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." |
Mmmmm.... Latin quotations.......
Anyway, this proposition is predicated on the assumption that something is broken in DPCLand that needs fixing. As usual, nothing's broken but people's perception. Drafting a "code of ethics" that is unenforceable in relation to the rules is nothing but a shaming device.
In my opinion, Ivo, your viewpoint is so rigid, and your delivery so caustic, that anything you suggest along these lines is going to seem self-serving. |
Louis, In this thread, I have not out a "rigid" viewpoint. All I'm encouraging is a framework. There is no need to hobble the discussion because you have a distaste for my tie and your perception of my online persona is prejudiced?
You left the site for a year as well.
Look past IVO. ;-) |
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11/18/2009 10:37:24 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Okay, so this is what I'm hearing; .... |
You know what I'm hearing? "Let's continue to punish the violator - and future violators - of the spirit of a challenge."
EDIT: Which is the same message I'm getting from current suggestion for a "Cheater" challenge.
Message edited by author 2009-11-18 10:39:48. |
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11/18/2009 10:38:58 AM · #59 |
| Until the cash prizes for ribbons exceeds $1,000 I think the code of ethics should be: "have fun and don't take yourself too seriously". Once they exceed $1,000 it should be: "have fun and don't take anything too seriously". |
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11/18/2009 10:39:14 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
You can have your reference and guideline. But to be honest how many people actually read that. I know for one, that I didnt
People have their own moral code. It is up to them to set a guideline as to where it is. You can not enforce it, anymore than you can enforce people in the real world.
People that don't cheat or bend the rules can now take the moral high road and be upset about it and keep up their high standards and bash away, but it wont change anything, you can not change human nature, however much you yell and scream about it. The people that bend the rules or cheat follow their own road and as humans, that is their choice and privilege. |
There is incredible power in the written word. Seems sorta foolish but it is a truth never the less. |
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11/18/2009 10:39:20 AM · #61 |
I don't think anything will change what the community will do. The majority are honest and do the right thing..why should one or two people cause this much of an uproar around here? I don't like what they did...but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
I like what one person said..that she is only responsible for herself...I feel the same way. I will continue doing the right thing b/c that is who I am and that is how I live my life, but at no point will we be able to make other people live their life the same way. They are responsible for their actions and they have to live with it. |
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11/18/2009 10:44:06 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
I'm confident those who felt the wrath of the community would be foolish to try something again. |
It's unlikely that someone who didn't break any rule would avoid doing the same thing again just because some people don't like it. The biggest vegan protest in the world isn't going to stop me from having a steak no matter how strong the convictions of the protesters. An outrage over chilling bugs for photography or hiring a gorgeous model for a portrait challenge won't suddenly make those things off limits or prevent others from doing the same thing, either. If you really want to make a difference on this issue, try suggesting challenge topics with enforceable special rules to encourage compliance. |
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11/18/2009 10:44:46 AM · #63 |
| Is it favorable that "offenders" get chastised because they claim they didn't understand the expectations of the community? |
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11/18/2009 10:46:09 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." |
Mmmmm.... Latin quotations.......
Anyway, this proposition is predicated on the assumption that something is broken in DPCLand that needs fixing. As usual, nothing's broken but people's perception. Drafting a "code of ethics" that is unenforceable in relation to the rules is nothing but a shaming device.
In my opinion, Ivo, your viewpoint is so rigid, and your delivery so caustic, that anything you suggest along these lines is going to seem self-serving. |
Louis, In this thread, I have not out a "rigid" viewpoint. All I'm encouraging is a framework. There is no need to hobble the discussion because you have a distaste for my tie and your perception of my online persona is prejudiced?
You left the site for a year as well.
Look past IVO. ;-) |
Yes, this is what I'm referring to. You are bullying people who present they're opinion here, just as you bullied people in the "other" thread who had a contrary view. My perception of you is what you make it. My absence for a year is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. |
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11/18/2009 10:46:48 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
If you really want to make a difference on this issue, try suggesting challenge topics with enforceable special rules to encourage compliance. |
It was my understanding that this is not possible. Are you suggesting more rigidity and more rules? ;-) |
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11/18/2009 10:49:17 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." |
Mmmmm.... Latin quotations.......
Anyway, this proposition is predicated on the assumption that something is broken in DPCLand that needs fixing. As usual, nothing's broken but people's perception. Drafting a "code of ethics" that is unenforceable in relation to the rules is nothing but a shaming device.
In my opinion, Ivo, your viewpoint is so rigid, and your delivery so caustic, that anything you suggest along these lines is going to seem self-serving. |
Louis, In this thread, I have not out a "rigid" viewpoint. All I'm encouraging is a framework. There is no need to hobble the discussion because you have a distaste for my tie and your perception of my online persona is prejudiced?
You left the site for a year as well.
Look past IVO. ;-) |
Yes, this is what I'm referring to. You are bullying people who present they're opinion here, just as you bullied people in the "other" thread who had a contrary view. My perception of you is what you make it. My absence for a year is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. |
Classic passive aggressive response. I'm sorry that I hurt you Louis. I will try harder next time I promise. Please forgive me.
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11/18/2009 10:51:05 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
If you really want to make a difference on this issue, try suggesting challenge topics with enforceable special rules to encourage compliance. |
It was my understanding that this is not possible. Are you suggesting more rigidity and more rules? ;-) |
Of course it's possible. The challenge topics are chosen from community suggestions, often word-for-word. So suggest a f/4 challenge with a special rule that any photo not taken at f/4 will be disqualified. As long as the requirement is reasonable and enforceable, that's probably how Langdon will run it. |
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11/18/2009 10:52:03 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
You can have your reference and guideline. But to be honest how many people actually read that. I know for one, that I didnt
People have their own moral code. It is up to them to set a guideline as to where it is. You can not enforce it, anymore than you can enforce people in the real world.
People that don't cheat or bend the rules can now take the moral high road and be upset about it and keep up their high standards and bash away, but it wont change anything, you can not change human nature, however much you yell and scream about it. The people that bend the rules or cheat follow their own road and as humans, that is their choice and privilege. |
I couldn't agree more with this entire statement... !!!!
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11/18/2009 10:52:30 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
If you really want to make a difference on this issue, try suggesting challenge topics with enforceable special rules to encourage compliance. |
It was my understanding that this is not possible. Are you suggesting more rigidity and more rules? ;-) |
Of course it's possible. The challenge topics are chosen from community suggestions, often word-for-word. So suggest a f/4 challenge with a special rule that any photo not taken at f/4 will be disqualified. As long as the requirement is reasonable and enforceable, that's probably how Langdon will run it. |
Are all the challenges based upon suggestions?
This is a cool idea IMO. |
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11/18/2009 10:56:17 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Are all the challenges based upon suggestions? |
Speed Challenges and other "extras" are often suggested by Langdon or SC, but the vast majority come from the members. |
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11/18/2009 10:57:22 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Classic passive aggressive response. I'm sorry that I hurt you Louis. I will try harder next time I promise. Please forgive me. |
Well thanks for taking me seriously. To paraphrase something a very wise woman said to me years ago, you might have a few more people on your side if you had a little more respect for the people you're conversing with. |
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11/18/2009 12:48:28 PM · #72 |
So is the issue that the whole idea has no use or that it's  Ivo heading it up?
Nobody said that it's going to be enforceable, just the opposite, so what would be wrong with trying to get together and perhaps putting together this mission statement?
There have been numerous queries from n00bs over the years asking all sorts of questions that involve the more subtle and general concepts that this may very well address.
Doesn't seem like such a bad idea at all, and actually, having Ivo being the one who is putting it forth and expressing a willingness to work through it is its own sweet irony, don'tcha think?.......8>)
And yeah......I'll buy the first half dozen pizzas!
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11/18/2009 12:52:55 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
And yeah......I'll buy the first half dozen pizzas! |
And for heavens sake - Puleeze, no anchovies!!! |
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11/18/2009 01:03:06 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
And yeah......I'll buy the first half dozen pizzas! |
Originally posted by TrollMan:
And for heavens sake - Puleeze, no anchovies!!! |
This from someone who comes from the land of Lutefisk????
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11/18/2009 01:49:03 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
So is the issue that the whole idea has no use or that it's Ivo heading it up? |
My feelings (see previous post) have nothing to do with Ivo. I don't even know who the hell he is. Seriously. As I'm sure he has no idea who I am, either.
EDIT: I mean, I don't know who he is as a forum personality. I'm aware he has taken excellent photos.
Message edited by author 2009-11-18 14:01:05. |
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