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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Watermark Discussion for New Dimension Limitations
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11/09/2009 12:23:07 PM · #1
As suggested by our fearless leader
Originally posted by langdon:

Kind folks, we are considering the watermarking idea. Please keep the discussion limited to the topic at hand. If you want to continue the watermark discussion, create a new thread (or find one of the many existing threads).


Let the games begin, again.

MAX!
11/09/2009 12:25:04 PM · #2
I don't care one way or another if a watermark is put on our photo as long as it's not there during voting. I can see the comments now....this would be great except for the watermark!
11/09/2009 12:28:22 PM · #3
Originally posted by KarenNfld:

I don't care one way or another if a watermark is put on our photo as long as it's not there during voting. I can see the comments now....this would be great except for the watermark!


Agreed and unless it is a uniform process done by site council others could start to recognize images done by photographers by the way they apply their watermark.

MAX!
11/09/2009 12:41:13 PM · #4
I think a general DPC watermark on it would be best, and if it is done automatically, then it can't be a "vote down" offense, as it would be on everyones image. It doesn't have to be something heavy duty, just a light overlay somewhere on the image.
11/09/2009 12:46:18 PM · #5
Originally posted by AJSullivan:

I think a general DPC watermark on it would be best, and if it is done automatically, then it can't be a "vote down" offense, as it would be on everyones image. It doesn't have to be something heavy duty, just a light overlay somewhere on the image.


This would be nice. Maybe it could be set up so that members voting would not see the watermark during the voting period. That could be another member perk.
At the new size and resolution, I feel that the mark is a good thing.
11/09/2009 12:53:06 PM · #6
Eh, I dont think making it a perk for members is a good idea, because then it would have people voting it down because of it. Its gotta be there for every image, for every user. Picking and choosing and limiting who sees it and who doesn't, or even what images its on and if on some it isnt, could then prove to be something that is frowned upon on here.
11/09/2009 01:15:34 PM · #7
From earlier discussion in another thread:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Gordon:

... If DPC wants to become more of a commercial site and stop people seeing images properly, watermarks is the way to go.

Watermarks do not have to be intrusive, nor will they dampen the viewing experience, if they are applied sensibly.

One of the points made here by 21.gif basssman7 was that should some lift/borrow/steal (call it what you want) an image with a watermark on it, at least the original photographer would get credit for it (viewers would know where it originated based on the watermark).

Also, I firmly believe a watermark would deter MANY from posting images, "borrowed" from DPC, on other sites because it would much more difficult to make the work appear as their own.

Best way to provide this as a service to DPC'rs, for challenge entries, is to provide it as an option available to the user community.


*****************************************************************************************

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

How many of you watermark the images you post in your portfolio, and if you don't, why not? The only DPC prohibition on watermarks is for challenge entries -- you are free to deface anything else you post here.

Usually, the photos I upload for challenges are much better (cough...hopefully) than what I may put in my DPC portfolio. The object when entering a challenge is to do well - so, best foot forward.

Many times I'll take those same challenge entries and post them to various stock sites (along with outtakes that don't get posted here at all). The stuff that goes in the portfolio is fun stuff that usually I'm not attempting to sell anywhere (except for maybe DPC Prints).

Really, a simple checkbox on the challenge entry upload form could be selected by the photographer as to whether they want the photo watermarked AFTER the challenge has finished voting. Doing it automatically based on the checkbox selection, and only for those that want it.
11/09/2009 01:51:07 PM · #8
I'm all for a poll to see just how much demand for this there would actually be.

I have such a hard time understanding why on any level the individual shouldn't be responsible for the security of his/her own images.

YOUR image, YOUR responsibility, period.
11/09/2009 01:56:10 PM · #9
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I'm all for a poll to see just how much demand for this there would actually be.

I have such a hard time understanding why on any level the individual shouldn't be responsible for the security of his/her own images.

YOUR image, YOUR responsibility, period.


True, but then it comes down to taking personal responsibility means no longer posting pictures on the Internet, which means I no longer enter challenges at dpc.

If one person chooses that road, no big deal.

If many people choose that route, it really hurts dpc.

Personally, I'm ambivalent on the issue but can see why some REALLY want watermarks and why some REALLY don't. I would think Langdon has to look at it from a business perspective and do what is best for business.
11/09/2009 02:02:55 PM · #10
Poll suggestion:

Watermark ALL challenge images after the challenge is over automatically

Have the OPTION to have a DPC watermark applied after the challenge is over

Have the OPTION to apply one's own watermark to a challenge entry after it is over (though this probably won't work because we shouldn't be allowed to touch challenge entries at all once they've been entered)

To my thinking, any watermarking that would appear DURING voting is not even an option. Who wants to vote on pictures with watermarks?
11/09/2009 02:09:26 PM · #11
No-one wants to steal my images. :-(
11/09/2009 02:13:03 PM · #12
Do we seriously need multiple, concurrent threads on this ridiculous topic. Please don't make me regret putting the blue shirt back on last night. Watermarked or not, it isn't 'safe' in any manner on the internet. Look at the Dr Achoo thread. There was no place he could have placed an UNOBTRUSIVE watermark and not had the image used. Watermarks...you guys must really think highly of yourselves to believe that every image you post is going to cost you all that money when someone takes it. I have seen most of the work on here. Most of us can relax and LET IT GO.
11/09/2009 02:13:49 PM · #13
Originally posted by david_c:

No-one wants to steal my images. :-(

Heh! I was about to put that down for myself as well. The only reason I'd ever watermark my images is in hopes that someone would think that if they're watermarked, they must be good enough to steal! :-) Given the option, though, I wouldn't ever need to mark mine.
11/09/2009 02:19:46 PM · #14
Originally posted by Melethia:

... Given the option, though, I wouldn't ever need to mark mine.

If you ever continue to pursue this path you might think differently.
11/09/2009 02:20:09 PM · #15
Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by david_c:

No-one wants to steal my images. :-(

Heh! I was about to put that down for myself as well. The only reason I'd ever watermark my images is in hopes that someone would think that if they're watermarked, they must be good enough to steal! :-) Given the option, though, I wouldn't ever need to mark mine.


You both stole my thoughts exactly. I have never had an imaged be "borrowed".
11/09/2009 02:20:41 PM · #16
I think it's a good idea, but I also think it is only a modest deterrent at best. Worth1000 puts a logo on all their challenge entries. My coworkers who know I am into photography are regularly forwarding me e-mails of "interesting photos" with many W1K images included.
11/09/2009 02:24:30 PM · #17
I'm in total agreement that watermarks visible during voting would be a *huge* turn-off. After voting, now that's another question. I believe it should be optional if it is offered. If it is offered as an option, I don't see a problem with users being able to upload their own watermark file, then position the watermark for best effect; a single, pre-set watermark location will not work for all images.
11/09/2009 02:28:55 PM · #18
Originally posted by kirbic:

I'm in total agreement that watermarks visible during voting would be a *huge* turn-off. After voting, now that's another question. I believe it should be optional if it is offered. If it is offered as an option, I don't see a problem with users being able to upload their own watermark file, then position the watermark for best effect; a single, pre-set watermark location will not work for all images.

Another option for either a DPC or custom user watermark is to allow simple positioning (low, center, high). That worked well on another site I was involved with (combination sales and portfolio site). I'm confident that Langdon could work that out without too much trouble.
11/09/2009 02:28:59 PM · #19
Originally posted by ericwoo:

Do we seriously need multiple, concurrent threads on this ridiculous topic. Please don't make me regret putting the blue shirt back on last night. Watermarked or not, it isn't 'safe' in any manner on the internet. Look at the Dr Achoo thread. There was no place he could have placed an UNOBTRUSIVE watermark and not had the image used. Watermarks...you guys must really think highly of yourselves to believe that every image you post is going to cost you all that money when someone takes it. I have seen most of the work on here. Most of us can relax and LET IT GO.


Why do you and a few others become so irate when this suggestion is brought up? The OP just did what the site owner told him to do.

If some want an automatic watermark placed on their image after a challenge and there is a checkbox to opt out of it how does that affect you?
11/09/2009 02:31:55 PM · #20
Originally posted by ericwoo:

Do we seriously need multiple, concurrent threads on this ridiculous topic. Please don't make me regret putting the blue shirt back on last night. Watermarked or not, it isn't 'safe' in any manner on the internet. Look at the Dr Achoo thread. There was no place he could have placed an UNOBTRUSIVE watermark and not had the image used. Watermarks...you guys must really think highly of yourselves to believe that every image you post is going to cost you all that money when someone takes it. I have seen most of the work on here. Most of us can relax and LET IT GO.


As said about 400000 times, watermarks are not fail safe, we know that. We also all know that if you put it on the internet, the chance for it to be stolen is there. But sometimes a watermark serves as a deterrent, which is all you can ask for right? Like a no trespassing sign, for a good amount of people, thats all they need to see, but some will still trespass anyway.
11/09/2009 03:17:38 PM · #21
Originally posted by ericwoo:

Do we seriously need multiple, concurrent threads on this ridiculous topic. Please don't make me regret putting the blue shirt back on last night. Watermarked or not, it isn't 'safe' in any manner on the internet. Look at the Dr Achoo thread. There was no place he could have placed an UNOBTRUSIVE watermark and not had the image used. Watermarks...you guys must really think highly of yourselves to believe that every image you post is going to cost you all that money when someone takes it. I have seen most of the work on here. Most of us can relax and LET IT GO.


I have stepped back from this site due to moronic and belittling nonsense like this. This is why DPC has turned me off and there seems to be no way to escape belittlement for ideas as clearly exhibited in the aforementioned comment.

Watermarks are a reasonable and tangible deterrent. As soon as submitters are denied the opportunity remove images from this site, as is the case with challenge entries, we lose the ability to employ reasonable deterrents which may significantly reduce the infringement on copyright. The question is choice and at this point, there is no choice but to accept the status quo when it comes to challenge entries. Though the site may benefit from several enhancements, this one issue is a lawsuit waiting to happen and if it did, I suspect Langdon would get his arse fried.

On all past entries, watermark them. Slap DPC right across the bow for all I care. On current challenges, notify the submitter of the risk during the voting period and allow them to opt in or out. I'm cool with that as well. I also agree on the sensibility of watermarking your own images in your portfolio and shouldering that responsibility. When it comes to past challenges, DPC holds the images captive and does not employ what is seen the most basic, and widely used, measure of image protection.

Doc, if that was my kid, I'd be screaming bloody murder!

As for 21.gif ericwoo, pull my finger and take a deep breath. It may help you think clearer and certainly will help your communication skills! Please do not misunderstand this last comment as baiting but rather an honest attempt to remedy this hemorrhage that is happening between your ears.

Please let me know if it helps.

There that's better.

Message edited by author 2009-11-09 15:32:38.
11/09/2009 03:35:25 PM · #22
Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by david_c:

No-one wants to steal my images. :-(

Heh! I was about to put that down for myself as well. The only reason I'd ever watermark my images is in hopes that someone would think that if they're watermarked, they must be good enough to steal! :-) Given the option, though, I wouldn't ever need to mark mine.


I thought the same thing about my images as well but but a while ago someone used one of mine on their business web/blog site, it was an image I never would have guessed anyone would use so you just never know. I am all for watermarks after voting!
11/09/2009 03:45:01 PM · #23
Originally posted by Ivo:

... this one issue is a lawsuit waiting to happen and if it did, I suspect Langdon would get his arse fried.

Sections 6.2 and 8.1-8.3 (among others) of the Registered Users Agreement would suggest otherwise ...
11/09/2009 03:52:06 PM · #24
Hmmm....Langdon has already been busy. :-)

//www.dpchallenge.com/images/pix.gif

Thanks!!! The effort is appreciated. Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_763011.gif
11/09/2009 03:53:01 PM · #25
Please refer to several pages of recent background on this issue in this thread.
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