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05/19/2004 11:10:22 AM · #1
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sjookooharrawoshimotto

grtz

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05/19/2004 11:16:07 AM · #2
Personally, I don't think you did anything wrong...the picture is great!
If you are referring to your relatively low score as the problem, I think the reason for that was the content and message of your image, which probably put off a lot of people on this site who are Christian.
05/19/2004 11:19:03 AM · #3
It was my favorite photo in the challenge. A very strong image with a message...

I have no idea why it didn't do better. I think you may have been bitten by some low votes who didn't understand your idea.
05/19/2004 11:44:47 AM · #4
The photo is very well executed and it has a strong message. I think that is the problem. The message you send in the image can be seen to drop firmly on one side of quite a deep argument, and individual voters will be swayed by which side of that divide they personally align with.

By submitting an image with this kind of statement you are in effect damaging 50% of your potential vote.

I must say in my own defence I have no side in the argument !!
05/19/2004 12:05:55 PM · #5
left a comment.
05/19/2004 12:06:06 PM · #6
I see that many of us, myself included, already told you "what went wrong" by providing comments during the challenge. And interestingly, those who offered comments critical of the message are not marked "helpful".

Edit: I meant to say: "depiction of the message", not the message itself.

Message edited by author 2004-05-19 12:45:10.
05/19/2004 12:09:59 PM · #7
I think you have to remember that the score reflects the reaction of the general dpchallenge voter and not a panel of judges, art directors, or art critics. The dpchallenge users are a great group of people, but their photographic interestins, experience, and background very widely. There are serious students of photography as well as people who simply enjoy taking snapshots. If you want to win, you have to target your audience. If you want to take photos you feel are important, just look at the comments from the photographers that you respect and ignore the overall score.

As far as this photo is concerned, a more obvious cross probably would have helped... something ornate would worked well with the mood of the photo and would have create a more obvious opposite.

Great work though, so don't take that thought as negative.
05/19/2004 12:18:38 PM · #8
I think it was a great photo. I gave you an 8, and thought you were a contender.

The problem, as I see it, is that the image takes a while to figure out. Perhaps I'm slow, but it took me about 4-5 seconds to figure out it was a condom, and then another few to figure out the rest. Many people don't look at an image for more than a few seconds, at best. Perhaps they just didn't get it in that time.

I agree that you also were walking along a very thin line regarding the subject of the image.

Regardless of your final score, you should be proud of that image. It is very powerfull.
05/19/2004 12:30:59 PM · #9
It reminds me of a image I did for the challenge all alone. I was upset that I got what seemed to me to be a low score, but the magority of DPC set me straight. If it is a controversial shot, it probably won't do well. I personally like the shot and it was the only 10 I gave out for the challenge. But there are a lot of people on this site that cannot get past an image with a powerful message and look at it from a photographic standpoint. If they don't like the content, it will be voted down.

Here is the image I submitted.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/150/thumb/42710.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/150/thumb/42710.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

And if you want to read the thread on what was said to me,
here it is.

Other thread.
05/19/2004 12:34:50 PM · #10
One thing too, most people say it took them some time to figure out what it was, if it makes you feel any better, I knew right off that it was both a condom and a cross. Maybe that is a bad thing that I would recognize both but oh well.
05/19/2004 01:16:18 PM · #11
take out the content-driven 1, 2 and 3's and suddenly your score looks pretty good.

P
05/19/2004 01:17:46 PM · #12
This is one of those occasions where a title would really have helped out. I went back to this image 3 times and just could not get the message you were trying to send me. I gave it a 5. It's technically sound. Little bit dark for my personal tastes, but still a solid, not exceptional in my mind technical execution.

Wrapping my brain around it, I can now see the attempt to comment on religion and birth control. This doesn't take me to the Catholic Church. So the message is lost. I have to work at it to get where you want me to be. Now I'm all for having to ponder the mysteries of the universe- but not when I have 300+ images to vote on. :)

For this image to move higher, I need a stronger connection to the Catholic Church. There's no context for me that shoots me in the right direction. Title might have helped, or the addition of a specifically Catholic item like a rosary.

Hope this helps a bit!

Clara
05/19/2004 01:41:17 PM · #13
I voted it low because I donít believe this is the forum for political ideology, religious slurring or racism of any sort.

Lets put this into another context, what would a picture of a pig in wearing A Yarmulke that has eat me written on it state? It would be Anti Semite In my opinion and probably would be with many others to.

What if someone made a picture of something consisting of eating steak and Hindu religious themes just because they think that belief in a cow to be sacred is funny or they donít agree with it?

Why should a Catholic belief held with any less respect on this Forum?

I just do not think this is the place to express views like this one. I respect that you disagree with the Catholic Church and you have your right to criticize.

But I donít think you should use here as your canvas.

On a technical basis your photo was well done.
05/19/2004 03:25:35 PM · #14
Originally posted by Shakey:

I voted it low because I donít believe this is the forum for political ideology, religious slurring or racism of any sort.

Hmmm...there are fine lines to this, but....
Everything you do, say or act, has something to do with your beliefs. Doesn't have to be religious beliefs, but your OWN belief system, your morals and your values.
The problem with alot of people today, is they think that anything that MAY offend them be wiped out. All this politcally correct BS is eating away at society. ONE person can be offended or not like something these days, and a whole town, state, or even nation has to bow to it, because a cross is a religious symbol. Well, hell, salt could be a religious symbol, someone turned to salt in the Bible. BAN SALT! Don't take pictures of it either.
Take pictures of what you want, and as long as it meets the Challenge, it belongs here.
05/19/2004 03:51:59 PM · #15
sure they all belong here. and i believe an artist has the right to take a picture of feces on a cross if that what they need, but to later ask the question..."what went wrong here?"...lol, are you joking??!?! come on, if you're so enlighted as to throw daggers with a photograph, i'd think you'd already know "what went wrong here?" Really what these images (more the questions/comments later) show me is there are a number of people out there just really starving themselves for attention. The cross pic is good and it shows what the artist thinks of the church maybe, but says nothing as to why. the suicide pic by G4Ds might be distubing to others but just shows me how NOT to shoot myself (well, if my goal is to kill myself) as the angle is ALL wrong :) ANYWAY, i do appreciate them all but they all don't deserve great scores just for being "controversial" to some people. you take all of 'em even the ones you think poor and get a better understanding of other photographers and the general audience out there. Thank you all for hopefully helping me become a better photographer someday.

Message edited by author 2004-05-19 16:00:08.
05/19/2004 04:14:28 PM · #16
I think it's a great shot and scored it highly

I'd hate to see people shying away from posting controversial and/or thought and emotion provoking images from this site just to appease the masses.

Steve

(My ribbon winner picks from each challenge rarely tie up with the actual winners so what the hell do I know.)
05/19/2004 05:21:05 PM · #17
Originally posted by Shakey:

I voted it low because I donít believe this is the forum for political ideology, religious slurring or racism of any sort.

Lets put this into another context, what would a picture of a pig in wearing A Yarmulke that has eat me written on it state? It would be Anti Semite In my opinion and probably would be with many others to.

What if someone made a picture of something consisting of eating steak and Hindu religious themes just because they think that belief in a cow to be sacred is funny or they donít agree with it?

Why should a Catholic belief held with any less respect on this Forum?

I just do not think this is the place to express views like this one. I respect that you disagree with the Catholic Church and you have your right to criticize.

But I donít think you should use here as your canvas.

On a technical basis your photo was well done.


well said.
that's basically my reaction, also.
05/19/2004 05:37:04 PM · #18
[quote=ericsuth] just shows me how NOT to shoot myself (well, if my goal is to kill myself) as the angle is ALL wrong :)

I know the angle was all wrong, I was just going for a dynamic composition with the triangle theme:)
05/19/2004 05:43:15 PM · #19
See Andres Serrano, "Piss Christ" and the surrounding furror if you are puzzled by the reaction here. Or perhaps the current conterversy of casting Tina Turner in a movie playing the Hindu godess Shiva.

To people of faith, an object of worship is not a thing that can be viewed as a normal object, once formed into a sacred shape it trancends it's substance and becomes holy. The desire to make a point about birth controll is understandable, but when you make use of a sacred object you must expect a strong reaction, you have after all sullied a sacred object. A flag is a combustible peice of dyed cloth, but if you burn it infront of an embassy, you are doing so in an attempt to foster a strong reaction.

That said I liked the shot, of course I liked Piss Christ too, but my faith has fewer symbols tied to it than most.
05/19/2004 05:51:19 PM · #20
Originally posted by Tallbloke:

I'd hate to see people shying away from posting controversial and/or thought and emotion provoking images from this site just to appease the masses.


Who cares about the masses, I say! I'm personnaly fed up of the beautiful shots of bright colourful fluffy sunsets, and brightly coloured flowers, etc. If you want to see that, then buy a calendar or a Hallmark card.

Pictures SHOULD be thought provoking and evoke emotions in their viewers. Life is not all cutsy flowers and bugs, you know.

This site tends to be pretty conventional in it's content. I think photos like the ones discussed here are great. They rock the boat a little, and stir up emotions. That's what life is about. Everything tastes better with a little spice added.

Keep up the good work. You might not win on this site, but many of us will still respect you in the morning.


05/19/2004 06:11:06 PM · #21
Okay here goes... First I did not vote because of my own personal distaste for the subject matter. But since you asked... I think you answered your own question when you state in your comments about the picture "It is my way to criticize the Catholic Churchs statements" IMHO the photo was not easy to understand, the image was "huh?" The condom is mis shaped, the rope is about....something I guess, and the cross is not well placed. While it easy to see you are not a fan of the church, just what is the picture trying to say about condoms and the Church. Or does it go much deeper than that? In any event it did not strike me or move me or stop me in my tracks like I expect a 9 or 10 shot will do. After several seconds of trying to figure the statement out I simply moved on. From a technical point of view I do think you hit the mark. I believe that the quality of your work will allow you to use your camera to "effectively" get your point across in a much more profound way.text
05/19/2004 06:28:11 PM · #22
Absolutely stunning photo. I could see it hanging in an art musuem. There's a line between fitting and not fitting the challenge and unfortunately for me it's only on the line.
05/19/2004 06:35:14 PM · #23
Originally posted by Pedro:

take out the content-driven 1, 2 and 3's and suddenly your score looks pretty good.

P


Throw out the all those pesky 4's and 5's and it would have won. :)

Message edited by author 2004-05-19 18:35:50.
05/19/2004 07:26:05 PM · #24
Originally posted by mariomel:

Originally posted by Tallbloke:

I'd hate to see people shying away from posting controversial and/or thought and emotion provoking images from this site just to appease the masses.


Who cares about the masses, I say! I'm personnaly fed up of the beautiful shots of bright colourful fluffy sunsets, and brightly coloured flowers, etc. If you want to see that, then buy a calendar or a Hallmark card.

Pictures SHOULD be thought provoking and evoke emotions in their viewers. Life is not all cutsy flowers and bugs, you know.

This site tends to be pretty conventional in it's content. I think photos like the ones discussed here are great. They rock the boat a little, and stir up emotions. That's what life is about. Everything tastes better with a little spice added.

Keep up the good work. You might not win on this site, but many of us will still respect you in the morning.


Could not have said it better Mariomel.

Message edited by author 2004-05-19 19:26:54.
05/19/2004 08:18:05 PM · #25
What went wrong here?

Answer: Nothing, really

Explanation:
It is the picture, that is all.

Images with strong and/or controversial themes tend to have flattened point distribution curves like this one. Hanging in an art gallery the range of reaction to it would probably be about the same. It has a healthy number of 10s. The only controversy is an overabundance of 1s. Looks like there should be about 15 as opposed to 27. (Probably from the "meet the challenge" crowd and those that did not like the message) That would only make a 1 to 2 tenths of a point rating difference at most. Not much at all.

The Good:
The image has a message and if you understand that message it meets the challenge exceptionally well and in a very, very unique way. The choice of sepia is good.

The Bad:
The connection to the challenge is obscure for most, the theme is not clearly presented and the background with the big overexposed spot and some other smaller dark spots is distracting. DOF is weak.

Suggested improvements:
One, tie the rope in a small noose. Have the condom still tied but hanging at the bottom underneath. Mount the Crucifix towering above the condom with draped rosary beads around it inside the loop of the noose.
Two, take care of the background distractions or replace them with Catholic specific icons in soft focus.

This would make the message even stronger and much more clearly visible to the casual viewer.

Summary:
Nothing really wrong with the score. A little low is all in my opinion.
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