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08/10/2009 12:53:57 PM · #1
I was pretty upset to have my pic DQd even before the oil challenge had finished.

My pic

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I really don't understand this as the rules state that it must not consist Entirely of another photo which it clearly does not.
and that it must not fool voters into thinking that I captured the original which the first 3 comments confirm is not the case

What happens if a pic that was DQd before the end of a challenge is then allowed back in, what happens to the lost votes?
wouldn't it be better to allow all pics to run to the end of the challenge just in case the photographer can prove the DQ was wrong?
08/10/2009 01:13:59 PM · #2
In this case, the setup was intended to make the viewer think your hand was really outstretched in front of an oilfield. Whether or not it really fooled people is not the point. It's sometimes a fine line.
08/10/2009 01:28:04 PM · #3
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Connor's point about the reinstatement of photos is interesting. I really wonder how it could be "placed" in the numerical final results if it had received a minor slice of votes.
Having said that.... reinstatements are EXCEPTIONALLY rare in the first place, auto-DQ or otherwise, so I'm not sure how important the determination would be.
Lastly, it's been shown in other challenges that using a backdrop in the manner you did is risky, so I have a hard time being sympathetic about your surprise regarding the DQ in the first place... you're active enough in the forums to know about the controversy and the fact that you tread on risky ground when this approach is used.
Don't worry about it though. It's just your first DQ in 59 entries. No worries :)
08/10/2009 01:34:35 PM · #4
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/958/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_742750.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/958/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_742750.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' A similar DQ from ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' LydiaToo for the Feast challenge. (edit for clarification)

Message edited by author 2009-08-10 13:36:07.
08/10/2009 03:49:20 PM · #5
Originally posted by Connor:

I was pretty upset to have my pic DQd even before the oil challenge had finished.



Connor, sorry about the dq but as its been said its a cut and dried dq imho. that said, getting your dad to smear oil over his hand was a master stroke, great work!
08/10/2009 04:08:56 PM · #6
Oh well onwards and upwards eh

Thanks for your comments.
08/10/2009 04:15:33 PM · #7
Kind of funny,,,,all the comments knew it was a fake background. Yet still DQ ?
08/10/2009 04:29:10 PM · #8
Originally posted by ace flyman:

Kind of funny,,,,all the comments knew it was a fake background. Yet still DQ ?

By "all" you mean "four?"
08/10/2009 04:40:12 PM · #9
Yep....all the comments. I wasn't in the challenge, but voted. I didn't leave a comment, yet I knew it was fake.

edit; the average comment for the challenge was 3

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by ace flyman:

Kind of funny,,,,all the comments knew it was a fake background. Yet still DQ ?

By "all" you mean "four?"


Message edited by author 2009-08-10 16:41:59.
08/10/2009 04:46:07 PM · #10
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by ace flyman:

Kind of funny,,,,all the comments knew it was a fake background. Yet still DQ ?

By "all" you mean "four?"

Originally posted by ace flyman:

Yep....all the comments.

Count again. There were 6 comments during the challenge (and comments aren't the test of legality anyway).

Message edited by author 2009-08-10 16:46:20.
08/10/2009 04:49:10 PM · #11
What's your point Scalvert? 4 comments at that stage of the voting would certainly suggest that the shot was not fooling the voter into a fake background. Given the recent number of DQ's under the same rule, including SC members, it was certainly a risky option. However, agree or disagree with the DQ, i do not see your point here. Perhaps a more encouraging comment from the SC for a young photographer after his first DQ would be more appropriate.
08/10/2009 04:57:59 PM · #12
I didn't state a number, you did! "I said all the comments". Which only 4 mentioned the fakness of the background....sheeee

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by ace flyman:

Kind of funny,,,,all the comments knew it was a fake background. Yet still DQ ?

By "all" you mean "four?"

Originally posted by ace flyman:

Yep....all the comments.

Count again. There were 6 comments during the challenge (and comments aren't the test of legality anyway).
08/10/2009 04:59:26 PM · #13
hmm, this is such a tricky subject. The ribbon winner has artwork as a majority of the subject and it's primarily in the foreground, so how can we really know when to draw the line?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
08/10/2009 05:04:00 PM · #14
The line is that the photograph was clearly and obviously of artwork. Nobody looking at that should would mistake the paint as anything other than existing artwork. Once again, the shot that was DQ'd was exactly what the rule is meant to prohibit... a shot of artwork that appears to have been taken as part of the original capture, meaning that people will be voting on the intrinsic qualities of the photographed artwork as though it was shot as a live scene.

The ribbon-winning shot is an excellent use of artwork, in my opinion. Very creatively done, and is in no way a borderline case for the artwork rule.

Originally posted by Blue Moon:

hmm, this is such a tricky subject. The ribbon winner has artwork as a majority of the subject and it's primarily in the foreground, so how can we really know when to draw the line?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
08/10/2009 05:05:22 PM · #15
Originally posted by kingskingdom:

What's your point Scalvert? 4 comments at that stage of the voting would certainly suggest that the shot was not fooling the voter into a fake background. Given the recent number of DQ's under the same rule, including SC members, it was certainly a risky option. However, agree or disagree with the DQ, i do not see your point here. Perhaps a more encouraging comment from the SC for a young photographer after his first DQ would be more appropriate.

yes, 4 out of 126 is a good stat. I think we need to go back to statistics class and understand sample sizes (and also that fact that people who know it was fake, might be more prone to say ha its fake, i got ya. So in essence 120ish people thought it was real. And if you are about to reply to this you have missed the whole point of my post, good day).
08/10/2009 05:07:36 PM · #16
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=919055
08/10/2009 05:08:06 PM · #17
Originally posted by kingskingdom:

However, agree or disagree with the DQ, i do not see your point here. Perhaps a more encouraging comment from the SC for a young photographer after his first DQ would be more appropriate.

I didn't address the photographer. My point was that *NOT* all the comments mentioned a fake background as Ace claimed. He inferred that nobody was fooled, when the comments only offer opinions from 6 out of 113 voters, and two of those didn't mention the background at all.
08/10/2009 05:13:08 PM · #18
.

Message edited by author 2009-08-10 17:18:49.
08/10/2009 05:18:02 PM · #19
Originally posted by Blue Moon:

hmm, this is such a tricky subject. The ribbon winner has artwork as a majority of the subject and it's primarily in the foreground, so how can we really know when to draw the line?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


It's all in how the artwork's used.
My personal litmus test when I look at these kinds of shots is to ask myself, technicals aside, could the artwork easily be real? In this case, could someone have taken a shot of an oil rig and a hand? Most definitely. In ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Scalvert's flying carpet shot that's often used as an example, no.

In your example, the artwork is clearly artwork and is an integral part of the whole idea. It would not have worked if done in any other way.
Connor's, for example, would have worked as well had he shot a real (or even mockup) oil rig.

eta; and I only see 3/6 comments mentioning a fake backdrop :)
Personally, I didn't vote so only made a quick browse of the entries and I didn't catch it, though I hope that if I HAD been voting I'd have taken the time to see it.

Message edited by author 2009-08-10 17:20:23.
08/10/2009 05:19:03 PM · #20
Originally posted by kingskingdom:

Clearly the other 120 all agreed that it was real because they did not comment!

Excuse me teacher, but we don't have the faintest idea whether the other [109] voters thought the background was real precisely because they didn't comment.
08/10/2009 05:21:45 PM · #21
as long as we are going off on a tangent, which is in no way related to the subject...

statistically the numbers prove nothing except that 6 people commented and the others did not...there is only proof of 4 of those 6 people knowing the background photo was not real...we will never know how many of the people, other than those 4, knew the photo was staged that way...

but let me get my popcorn and watch the rest of this unfold...

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08/10/2009 05:26:48 PM · #22
Common Scalvet, I agree with the DQ because it is consistent with previous rulings, but why the sarcastic tone with everyone, especially a young photographer.
08/10/2009 05:57:59 PM · #23
Originally posted by Connor:

I was pretty upset to have my pic DQd even before the oil challenge had finished.

My pic

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I really don't understand this as the rules state that it must not consist Entirely of another photo which it clearly does not.
and that it must not fool voters into thinking that I captured the original which the first 3 comments confirm is not the case

What happens if a pic that was DQd before the end of a challenge is then allowed back in, what happens to the lost votes?wouldn't it be better to allow all pics to run to the end of the challenge just in case the photographer can prove the DQ was wrong?


Sorry.. :-(... Doesn't appear that the SC is reading at least what you wrote here and/or is interested in answering.. I think you've asked a good question.. What if a photo is wrongly DQ'd... wait.. Is there such a thing ??? OH yes, memory serves me correctly, one was recently allowed back because it was wrongly DQ'd due to incorrect processing steps given by the photographer.. Once that was corrected, the image DQ was taken back and the photo went back to it's rightfull ribbon spot.. But, what if it's DQ'd during voting ???? And then it turns out that was a mistake...

Maybe it's a good idea to simply wait for the voting to be completed, the results to be calculated then any images that need to be DQ'd, be done at that time ???
08/10/2009 06:58:56 PM · #24
Originally posted by alanfreed:

The line is that the photograph was clearly and obviously of artwork. Nobody looking at that should would mistake the paint as anything other than existing artwork. Once again, the shot that was DQ'd was exactly what the rule is meant to prohibit... a shot of artwork that appears to have been taken as part of the original capture, meaning that people will be voting on the intrinsic qualities of the photographed artwork as though it was shot as a live scene.

The ribbon-winning shot is an excellent use of artwork, in my opinion. Very creatively done, and is in no way a borderline case for the artwork rule.

Originally posted by Blue Moon:

hmm, this is such a tricky subject. The ribbon winner has artwork as a majority of the subject and it's primarily in the foreground, so how can we really know when to draw the line?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1072/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_811568.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Believe it or not, I thought the face was part of the painting on that one. I wonder if that would've made it DQ'able?
08/10/2009 07:02:43 PM · #25
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by kingskingdom:

Clearly the other 120 all agreed that it was real because they did not comment!

Excuse me teacher, but we don't have the faintest idea whether the other [109] voters thought the background was real precisely because they didn't comment.


Scalvert is it always so necessary for you to be such a smart ass to people? Your disposition when talking to people in the forums when any thread regarding a DQ is discussed is so brash and hateful its unbelievable that you are acting as an SC.

Matt
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