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07/28/2009 10:53:00 AM · #26
I think this applies to most of America's role models...look at the entertainment industry. Have you listened to some of the lyrics in today's popular songs. I think it is insane that they allow this to happen but then again like ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' neophyte said, If my kid starts beating dogs or his girlfriend (Chris Brown), I have no right to blame the so-called "role-models." People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions.
07/28/2009 11:40:29 AM · #27
My demographic has nothing to do with it.(aside from the fact that you know nothing about me other than what you seem to be stereotyping) What JEason said...."People need to....." It all starts at home. The tougher the situation the harder you need to to work.

Message edited by author 2009-07-28 11:42:08.
07/28/2009 12:07:48 PM · #28
While I find his crime completely detestable and vile, and I applauded the verdict of his conviction, I do believe he has served his time - as deemed adequate by the federal judicial system and has paid some sizable fines. Therefore, I think to deny him an opportunity to resume his career and earn a living (even earning millions, as is his potential), is unwarranted, punitive reasoning - bordering on jealousy. The only restrictions I would request is that he never be allowed to enjoy pleasure of owning a dog. Petty? Yes, but I love dogs too much to ever imagine one being in his presence.

Message edited by author 2009-07-28 12:25:44.
07/28/2009 12:22:03 PM · #29
Originally posted by kandykarml:

Originally posted by neophyte:

Role Model? If my kid is involved in dog fighting, It's my fault. Not the people in the posters he has on his wall.....


Good for you !!! But, maybe, just maybe, you're not exactly the demographic that DOES look up to football stars as football heroes.. Some do.. Here's the transcript from a press conference he gave announcing HE FOUND GOD... Now, when I heard this, I thought to myself, he's gone coo-coo for coco puffs.. You be the judge...

I found God press conference..

I like the last paragraph specifically where he outlines who HE as in MV wants to be a hero to !!! Someone's kids are in trouble.. :-)


I don't have time to watch the link but if he wants to be a role model, why couldn't he be? Role models don't have to be the one's who have always followed the straight and narrow path. in fact, I believe that a person who has chosen poor choices in their life and paid the consequences for those actions can offer a great example and perspective to youth on why it's important to choose wisely the road you travel down. The guy served his time, paid his penalties and will be chastised by people the rest of his life, there is really no reason to keep him from the game other than spite.
07/28/2009 12:29:09 PM · #30
I lived in VA during the MV trial and had the opportunity to meet some dogs rescued from his dog fighting ring. Their ears had been sliced off with razor blades. Sad..very very sad and very very brutal. He's a sadistic SOB and I would never root for any team he played for.
07/28/2009 12:31:05 PM · #31
I have no problem with the NFL allowing him to come back. Let the free market work. If a team hires him and the fans of that team are okay with it, so be it.

If my favorite team signed him, I'd maybe reconsider my favorite team. I'd have to hear him talk and see if he is sincere now. What he did was pretty horrible and at the time he was not at all sorry about it.
07/28/2009 12:42:54 PM · #32
Out of curiosity, this thread made me look up a list of the NFL's all time criminals. The site Armchair GM - All-Time_Criminals has a nice list. Some of these crimes were much worse than what Vick did. Just read up on what Rae Caruth did. Here is the list from that site.

QB - Steve McNair
Arrested in May of 2003 for drunk driving, a search of his Lincoln Navigator later turned up a 9mm handgun. The record, combined with the 27,000 yards passing and 192 total touchdowns are good enough to make the team. Honorable mentions for this go out to Broadway Joe Namath, who was oh so close to making the list due to sexual harrassment, and Peyton Manning, who was actually one of those listed by a University of Tennessee trainer as among those who did harrass her, although disciplinary action was handled by the coach.

RB - O.J. Simpson
Although he's "100% innocent," being charged with a double murder gets him on the list.

RB - Jim Brown
Had two charges of rape dropped against him, once in 1965, the other in 1985, once allegedly choked his golf partner (NO YOU CANNOT PLAY THROUGH!), smashed the windows of his wife's car after threatening to snap her neck, and had charges dropped in a 1968 case after he allegedly threw his fiancee off a balcony.

WR - Michael Irvin
Turns out that cameo in The Longest Yard remake wasn't so far off. Irvin's got a record that's like the Energizer Bunny.

WR - Randy Moss
Completing the most feared receiving duo in the history of football is sports' ultimate road rager. Moss was arrested in 2002 after allegedly trying to run over a traffic agent.

TE - Mark Chmura
The former Green Bay Packer was arrested after attending a post-prom party and sexually assaulting a 17-year old girl. I never thought Super Bowl champs were that hard-pressed to find legal women.

OL - Nate Newton
Newton was caught with 213 pounds of marijuana in 2001, then two weeks later was caught with another 175 pounds. He served two years in jail and has recently come clean about his smuggling days, stating ""It was all the fun the law would allow...and then some."

OL - Bryant McKinnie
Ahh, the Love Boat. (Note: the term "Love" is being used very loosely.)

OL - Kenyatta Walker
Walker was arrested for disorderly conduct (a rather light charge for this list) in 2003 in New York City.

OL - Barret Robbins
Among the NFL's Weed Crew, Robbins went missing before the 2003 Super Bowl while with the Oakland Raiders. He was later charged for attempted murder, and was also arrested for marijuana while awaiting that trial.

DL - Dana Stubblefield
In 2000, Stubblefield was arrested after an argument between he and his wife escalated into a fight. He was charged with assault, though he insisted that only words were exchanged.

LB - Lawrence Taylor
In the words of Rick James, "Cocaine's a hell of a drug."

LB - Ray Lewis
Presenting the other "100% innocent" murderer. Still, it helped spawn the greatest fake sports headline ever, courtesy of the Sports Pickle (speaking of which, this week's top headline is pure gold): "Ray Lewis Wondering Who He Has to Kill to Get Traded."

CB - Deion Sanders
According to thesmokinggun.com, Primetime was arrested after being caught fishing on a private lake owned by the Southwest Florida International Airport.

CB - Ty Law
Law is apparently not above it, as he was stopped by police, then told them not to touch him because he "was a professional athlete."

CB - Ricky Manning, Jr.
Manning, fresh off a new deal with the Chicago Bears, and his posse allegedly laid down the law on some poor guy in a Los Angeles restaurant in 2005.

S - Eugene Robinson
Robinson reportedly offered about 40 bucks to an undercover police officer for a b.j. the day before he was supposed to make his third straight Super Bowl start. Apparently, he had the baby batter on the brain and didn't want to go out with a loaded gun.

S - Sean Taylor
The budding Washington Redskin was arrested after an altercation broke out when his all-terrain vehicles were taken. He was originally charged with pointing a gun during the dispute, though he denied having a gun.
Second Team?

RB - Ricky Williams
Littering and...Littering and...Littering and...Potheads usually aren't this productive unless there's a sale at the supermarket on Cheetos. Although he has never been charged with his highly publicized marijuana use, Williams was arrested, however, for failure to sign a traffic ticket in 2000. Ricky makes The Big List if other running backs hadn't been raging psychopaths.

RB - Najeh Davenport
Probably the strangest of the crimes listed, Davenport was charged with breaking into a woman's dorm room and defecating into a laundry basket her closet. Criminal charges against the Packer running back were settled via community service in 2002, but the woman sued Davenport in 2004.

WR - Rae Carruth
Although not good enough of an NFL star to make it onto the first team, Carruth gets a mention for conspiring to murder a woman pregnant with his child. He was sentenced to 18 to 24 years in prison.
07/28/2009 01:29:10 PM · #33
Originally posted by VitaminB:

RB - O.J. Simpson
Although he's "100% innocent," being charged with a double murder gets him on the list.


In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada and charged with numerous felonies, including robbery with a deadly weapon, burglary with a firearm, assault with a deadly weapon, first-degree kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, coercion with use of a deadly weapon, conspiracy to commit robbery, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, and conspiracy to commit a crime. A jury found Simpson guilty of all charges on October 3, 2008; and he was sentenced on December 5 to at least nine years in prison. He is currently serving his sentence at the Lovelock Correctional Center in Lovelock, Nevada.

(citation)

07/28/2009 01:37:13 PM · #34
Originally posted by AperturePriority:



In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada and charged with numerous felonies, including robbery with a deadly weapon, burglary with a firearm, assault with a deadly weapon, first-degree kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, coercion with use of a deadly weapon, conspiracy to commit robbery, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, and conspiracy to commit a crime. A jury found Simpson guilty of all charges on October 3, 2008; and he was sentenced on December 5 to at least nine years in prison. He is currently serving his sentence at the Lovelock Correctional Center in Lovelock, Nevada.

(citation)


Yeah... I realized later on that the list i posted was old... it was written in 2006. Otherwise, Simpson would be on there twice, Vick would be on there, and so would Plaxico Burress. Although, Plax almost won a Darwin award too, he shot himself.
07/28/2009 01:48:27 PM · #35
Add Matt Jones to the list as well. And Pacman Jones. It looks as though Ben Rothlisberger will join the club as well.

Originally posted by VitaminB:

Originally posted by AperturePriority:



In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada and charged with numerous felonies, including robbery with a deadly weapon, burglary with a firearm, assault with a deadly weapon, first-degree kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, coercion with use of a deadly weapon, conspiracy to commit robbery, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, and conspiracy to commit a crime. A jury found Simpson guilty of all charges on October 3, 2008; and he was sentenced on December 5 to at least nine years in prison. He is currently serving his sentence at the Lovelock Correctional Center in Lovelock, Nevada.

(citation)


Yeah... I realized later on that the list i posted was old... it was written in 2006. Otherwise, Simpson would be on there twice, Vick would be on there, and so would Plaxico Burress. Although, Plax almost won a Darwin award too, he shot himself.


Message edited by author 2009-07-28 13:49:59.
07/28/2009 01:49:08 PM · #36
How many of that list returned to play after their arrest/conviction/sentence?
07/28/2009 01:51:27 PM · #37
Originally posted by karmat:

How many of that list returned to play after their arrest/conviction/sentence?


I dont know about each exactly, but I know that Randy Moss and Ricky Williams still play, and I think Jim Brown and OJ Simpson are in the football hall of fame. But... Im not a football guy, so I am not confident on that either.
07/28/2009 02:18:04 PM · #38
I dont see the big deal, if they have done their time, they should be allowed to play.
Really, they should only be role models for how well they play, not for what they do in their free time.

I grew up admiring Platini, Maradona, Socrates, and other soccer players... I had posters of them on my wall and wanted to be like them, but if you asked me what car they drove and who they dated or what they did outside the pitch, id have no idea
07/28/2009 05:01:46 PM · #39
I would like to see Vic donate the hugest amount EVER to causes that help protect and care for animals.

Ringgg!

Hey Mike....ASPCA...line one!

Message edited by author 2009-07-28 17:07:04.
07/28/2009 05:45:59 PM · #40
Originally posted by neophyte:

My demographic has nothing to do with it.(aside from the fact that you know nothing about me other than what you seem to be stereotyping) What JEason said...."People need to....." It all starts at home. The tougher the situation the harder you need to to work.


woooooooohh.. I wasn't stereotyping ANYONE.. You clearly said if it were your child, and they were caught dog fighting, it wouldn't be anyone else's fault but your own as the parent.. I was simply saying, not all kids have the advantage of having a parent so involved in their life..

It's a fact.. Kids look up to sports stars all the time.. They adore them.. They want to emulate them.. You took that out of context and you are correct, I know nothing about you other then what you said.. I meant "good for you" in a positive way..
07/29/2009 01:11:26 PM · #41
Interesting review of a book about the Baseball Hall of Fame ...
Originally posted by NY Times Book Review:

In his new book, “Cooperstown Confidential: Heroes, Rogues and the Inside Story of the Baseball Hall of Fame,” Zev Chafets suggests that part of the problem is that the whole institution is built on a foundation of deceit: a falsified creation myth ...

Equally hypocritical is Rule 5 of the hall’s election requirements, the character clause, which specifies that admission should be based not just on a player’s record and ability but also on his integrity, sportsmanship and virtue....

But the brand of moralizing practiced by the Hall of Fame has always been highly selective and inconsistent. At the time of the annual induction ceremony in 2007, Mr. Chafets writes, the hall included “a convicted drug dealer, a reformed cokehead who narrowly beat a lifetime suspension from baseball, a celebrated sex addict, an Elders of Zion conspiracy nut, a pitcher who wrote a book about how he cheated his way into the hall, a well-known and highly arrested drunk driver and a couple of nasty beanball artists.”

That’s just among the living members. The roster of deceased immortals (some inducted before the character clause went into effect) includes Ty Cobb, one of the very first members, famously a sociopath, possibly a murderer and a notorious racist who was also a card-carrying, torch-waving member of the Klu Klux Klan, as were Tris Speaker and Rogers Hornsby. The hall is full of gamblers, brawlers and defendants in paternity suits, and there are numerous drunks, starting with Grover Cleveland Alexander, who Bill Veeck, the colorful baseball executive, once said pitched better drunk than sober.
07/29/2009 01:42:12 PM · #42
It would be a nice gesture, but I don't think paying cash absolves anyone of a crime, which in my opinion, is so heinous, or puts them in a any better light and would probably be viewed as buying back acceptance.

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I would like to see Vic donate the hugest amount EVER to causes that help protect and care for animals.

Ringgg!

Hey Mike....ASPCA...line one!
07/29/2009 01:54:59 PM · #43
It's a "free country", and if they want to let such people play their sport, I don't see where any "law" should prevent it. But we do vote so effectively with our wallets, don't we? I will NEVER go to an NFL game that MV plays in, nor will I watch one on TV. I will NEVER go to the baseball hall of fame if Pete Rose is in it.

I will NEVER watch a movie in which that O.J. Simpson appears, old classic or not. It makes me angry to see his face. I suppose seeing MV in a football game would have the same effect.

We do have power, to accept or reject what our money supports.


07/29/2009 02:13:47 PM · #44
I find the question of Vick to be pretty interesting, when someone has done the time for a crime why should a sports league like the NFL feel the need to inflict further punishment? I understand teachers and professions with direct interaction with children being protected by not hiring these kinds of criminals but where should the line be for sports figures? I am really torn on this one and if Vick were to never be allowed to play again I would be OK with that, but I have a hard time deciding if it is reasonable for a sports league to restrict employment based on past crimes that have been dealt with! Each team on the other hand should be allowed to decide for themselves if the person can be productive and not be destructive to the team and or the teams bottom line.

I used to manage a warehouse and had a person apply with a past felony, I interviewed him and liked him and would have hired him if he was able to satisfy a couple of questions I had about the felony that gave further insight into his character. In the end I just did not feel comfortable with his responses so I did not hire him and the reasoning had to do with his responses as a person not specifically his past. If I had decided to hire him I had HR's backing and the felony did not play specific part in the decision not to hire other than it opened a line of questioning that shed some light on his character that could have been destructive to the team.
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