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07/27/2009 07:04:14 PM · #1
OK, I'll get pummeled for this, but at what point did sports get so big that we cannot get rid of and shut our the criminal elements in professional sports these days? Michael Vik was convicted of dog fighting charges and the NFL is actually considering letting him play again! Huh? I would hate to think that money has become so much more important the the image or leadership roles those high $$ players provide. Cowboys finally got rid of the criminal Jerry Jones hired a couple of years ago.

We have professional athletes that act absolutely embarrassing and yet, it seems to get brushed off. Many are extremely talented and great role models. Others are whiney little babies, yet the fans put them on a pedestal.

Has society as a whole become so calloused to these types of things? Has greed replaced a conscience? I don't have kids, so I wonder what some of the parents think of criminal types being allowed back into professional sport or if you even care. Does anyone else find this weird?

Ok, discuss! :)
07/27/2009 07:09:22 PM · #2
Hasn't he paid his debt to society by going to prison? He can now move on with his life and pick up where he left off (career-wise). He (like you and I) have bills to pay.

When a child does something "bad", s/he is punished. Certainly you don't expect to keep punishing the child for the same mistake for many years to come and into adulthood, do you?

Message edited by author 2009-07-27 19:10:49.
07/27/2009 07:16:58 PM · #3
I was somehow thinking this would be a thread on what lengths people go through to get their ribboning challenge entries. Doh! I agree somewhat with both viewpoints- they are certainly role models, and in my opinion should uphold at least some level of decency in the public eye. I also agree that at some point people have an opportunity to pay their debt to society.. though I do think some discretion should be used. For some reason, I think that felonies or heavy charges (such as running an illegal dog fighting ring) are things that should not be forgotten so easily, but maybe that's just one man's opinion.
07/27/2009 07:17:52 PM · #4
Originally posted by AperturePriority:

Hasn't he paid his debt to society by going to prison? He can now move on with his life and pick up where he left off (career-wise). He (like you and I) have bills to pay.

When a child does something "bad", s/he is punished. Certainly you don't expect to keep punishing the child for the same mistake for many years to come and into adulthood, do you?


Pete Rose??
07/27/2009 07:19:32 PM · #5
What does this do to the reputation of the game (or whatever)? He might have paid his debt to society, but because of the Privilege of getting to play, if you screw up like that, is it fair to those that didn't get quite the same opportunity, but played by the rules?

Not the best example, but let's say a teacher gets busted for [u]smoking pot[/u] cooking meth (do you cook meth?) and goes to prison. Should he be allowed or expect to get hired to teach again because he went to prison?

How do those that are against animal cruelty feel when someone in a position like Michael Vik gets to slide back into the "good life" because he sat in jail? (Oh, I"m starting some crap, lol!)

What do you think? :) Edited for spelling (bad eye sight.)

Message edited by author 2009-07-27 19:21:22.
07/27/2009 07:27:38 PM · #6
I think that letting him play again isn't a horrible idea, but have a caveat that he can only earn, on a personal basis, the minimum league salary, with anything over and above that that he receives through any signings/bonuses/endorsements/etc. going to a respectable and well-established animal recovery charity of some kind. There can be a time limit on this, say, 5 years. Consider it an extension of his dues to be paid.
07/27/2009 07:31:12 PM · #7
Originally posted by alans_world:

Pete Rose??

His punishment is being banned from baseball. They didn't keep adding penalties after other disciplinary actions expired. The lifespan of this particular punishment happens to be for life.

07/27/2009 07:32:55 PM · #8
Originally posted by bergiekat:

Not the best example, but let's say a teacher gets busted for [u]smoking pot[/u] cooking meth (do you cook meth?) and goes to prison. Should he be allowed or expect to get hired to teach again because he went to prison?

Some professions do not allow the hiring of convicted felons. I'm not 100% certain, but School Teacher may be one of those professions.

Message edited by author 2009-07-27 19:33:15.
07/27/2009 07:33:53 PM · #9
Originally posted by bergiekat:

What does this do to the reputation of the game (or whatever)? He might have paid his debt to society, but because of the Privilege of getting to play, if you screw up like that, is it fair to those that didn't get quite the same opportunity, but played by the rules?

Not the best example, but let's say a teacher gets busted for [u]smoking pot[/u] cooking meth (do you cook meth?) and goes to prison. Should he be allowed or expect to get hired to teach again because he went to prison?

How do those that are against animal cruelty feel when someone in a position like Michael Vik gets to slide back into the "good life" because he sat in jail? (Oh, I"m starting some crap, lol!)

What do you think? :) Edited for spelling (bad eye sight.)


I agree with you. There are many careers where if you get convicted of a felony, you can never work in that field again. Why not professional sports? Does anyone feel sorry for the accountant who embezzles, goes to jail and then tries to get back into the field? A convicted cop can never be a cop again. A disbarred lawyer will never be a lawyer again. They all need to find other ways to feed their families. Why forgive an athlete just because he's an athlete? Heroes smearos. What's so heroic about playing a game anyway?
07/27/2009 07:34:18 PM · #10
Originally posted by bergiekat:

What does this do to the reputation of the game (or whatever)? He might have paid his debt to society, but because of the Privilege of getting to play, if you screw up like that, is it fair to those that didn't get quite the same opportunity, but played by the rules?

Not the best example, but let's say a teacher gets busted for [u]smoking pot[/u] cooking meth (do you cook meth?) and goes to prison. Should he be allowed or expect to get hired to teach again because he went to prison?

How do those that are against animal cruelty feel when someone in a position like Michael Vik gets to slide back into the "good life" because he sat in jail? (Oh, I"m starting some crap, lol!)

What do you think? :) Edited for spelling (bad eye sight.)


This is a good point.. For all those who feel he's paid his debt to society and he should be able to "earn a living" by playing in the NFL, would you afford that same right to a teacher as in the example above.. ??????

I feel that playing in the NFL is a priviledge and I don't agree with ANY VIOLENT felony criminals being allowed to continue to play.. NONE.. Why they are even considering this is beyond me.. Not sure what team will be desperate enough to have him on the roster.. I can't imagine that he's even close to being in shape to play at this level..
07/27/2009 07:36:35 PM · #11
I'm not a MV fan, but once his sentence has been served, he's supposed to have a fresh start. Any further sanctions by the league isn't appropriate. His infractions didn't impact the sport (like Rose), so sport exclusion is just, pardon the pun, piling on.
07/27/2009 07:38:57 PM · #12
Originally posted by AperturePriority:

Originally posted by bergiekat:

Not the best example, but let's say a teacher gets busted for [u]smoking pot[/u] cooking meth (do you cook meth?) and goes to prison. Should he be allowed or expect to get hired to teach again because he went to prison?

Some professions do not allow the hiring of convicted felons. I'm not 100% certain, but School Teacher may be one of those professions.


That's my thought. Why can you have a much lesser paying job with not much status that has basically zero tolerance and yet things like the NFL and others don't seem to take it as seriously. Is it the money for the league or the owner that lets the tolerance level slide? Prison or no prison, I personally think it not sending the correct message to society.

What about the kids? As role models doesn't this look bad?

Keep discussing... :P
07/27/2009 07:42:46 PM · #13
You have to understand a football profession is like no other in the world. The point of players is not only to be role models, but to win and bring attention (negative or positive keep in mind) to the team. This media while possibly turning some avid fans against the game will only gain the franchise more money. In Michael Vicks I believe he does deserve a second chance, a minimum league wage salary isn't a bad idea but I'm sure he'll score a deal better than that due to his outstanding ability as a player. Before he was convicted he was one of the most popular and top players in the league.

"He might have paid his debt to society, but because of the Privilege of getting to play, if you screw up like that, is it fair to those that didn't get quite the same opportunity, but played by the rules?"

Football like any other business doesn't favor those who play by the rules or with good character but those who play to the best of the ability and can optimize the teams performance, and therefore profit. The good guy doesn't always come out on top. Michael Vick actually has one of the best chances to become a role model now. He can go from one of the most hated football players to a model citizen if he proves his good character and doesn't go about doing anything else stupid like flicking the crowd off or abusing animals. I'm really looking forward to see what happens, and hoping he can turn his life around.
07/27/2009 07:47:29 PM · #14
Originally posted by AperturePriority:

Some professions do not allow the hiring of convicted felons. I'm not 100% certain, but School Teacher may be one of those professions.

As a teacher, a prior drug conviction represents a potential danger to the kids (and certainly a cause for concern among the parents). Dogfighting is basically unrelated to football, and the media circus surrounding Vick's involvement already did more to vilify the practice than any marketing campaign could have. It put a stadium-sized spotlight on a shady part of society and utterly shamed and bankrupted one of the biggest stars in sports. He will have to endure boos and contempt for the rest of his life regardless of whether or not he plays again, yet he might also try to redeem himself and prove more beneficial to society by playing than sitting on the sidelines.
07/27/2009 08:07:36 PM · #15
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by AperturePriority:

Some professions do not allow the hiring of convicted felons. I'm not 100% certain, but School Teacher may be one of those professions.

As a teacher, a prior drug conviction represents a potential danger to the kids (and certainly a cause for concern among the parents). Dogfighting is basically unrelated to football, and the media circus surrounding Vick's involvement already did more to vilify the practice than any marketing campaign could have. It put a stadium-sized spotlight on a shady part of society and utterly shamed and bankrupted one of the biggest stars in sports. He will have to endure boos and contempt for the rest of his life regardless of whether or not he plays again, yet he might also try to redeem himself and prove more beneficial to society by playing than sitting on the sidelines.


Well said. I was absolutely, and probably still am, one of Vick's biggest personal critics. I have never viewed him as anything more than a thug looking to flaunt his millions and gain attention. HOWEVER, he has paid the debt that society deemed he needed to pay. Now that the debt has been paid, and since the crimes he committed have no bearing on the profession he chose, he has earned a second chance. What he does with that second chance is entirely up to him, but he has absolutely made the steps necessary to be given that chance.
07/27/2009 08:10:18 PM · #16
I really find it fascinating.... Could care less about football or whoever the guy is but.... I not sure what to make of the fact it's such a big deal about dog fighting when killing people (as in not domestic animals) directly and indirectly around the world is background noise that barely rates a mention on the US news.... but hurt a dog and it's all over the place. Fascinating.... I forget is, PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals or is that something else :-)

Okay.... Bad bad... I will sit back in the corner now... :-)
07/27/2009 08:20:19 PM · #17
Originally posted by ericwoo:


Well said. I was absolutely, and probably still am, one of Vick's biggest personal critics. I have never viewed him as anything more than a thug looking to flaunt his millions and gain attention. HOWEVER, he has paid the debt that society deemed he needed to pay. Now that the debt has been paid, and since the crimes he committed have no bearing on the profession he chose, he has earned a second chance. What he does with that second chance is entirely up to him, but he has absolutely made the steps necessary to be given that chance.


I'm only curious here.. What has he done to EARN a second chance??? He's only done the bare minimum which is what the law required him to do.. He didn't volunteer to turn himself in and face the music.. He lied time after time after time.. It wasn't until he was faced with unsurmountable evidence that he agreed to a plea.. He held press conferences denying any wrong doing, again lying time and time again to everyone.. I get it, he was trying to save his skin.. But, what did he do to earn a 2nd chance.. I just don't see it.. And, I really don't think people feel the same way about regular people who commit the same crime under the same circumstances..
If the average Joe came to you and you were in a position to hire them and you found out they were involved in something like this, would you consider them for your position.. ?? Especially if your work involved working with the public ???
07/27/2009 08:24:03 PM · #18
If you truly want to get the message out that it is animal cruelty to promote dog fighting then who better than an NFL player that can speak to the type of people who partake in dog fighting about how wrong it is. My understanding is that Vic is being allowed back on a conditional basis and must show he is redeeming himself and becoming that role model everyone wishes NFL players could be. He has already begun working with the National Humane Society to become a national spokesman for them concerning the issue. I would think that he can talk the talk and walk the walk to the exact young people who need to change their behavior concerning aggressive dogs and machismo.

And Iím not even an NFL fan or what you might consider a professional sports player fan. But I do believe people deserve a second chance. Come on, even in baseball you get three strikes.

07/27/2009 08:25:20 PM · #19
IMO MV has paid his dues to society for his criminal action. Now comes the hard part, he has to prove to the NFL, his fans, and to himself that his past is in the past and he has changed his life for the better.

Being out of the NFL for 23+ months is going to be a big test in a sport where the average career is much shorter than other sports. If I could give him advice it would be, "you can't change what you did in the past but you can help prevent such behavior in the future by speaking out about your mistakes and most of all IF you become a successful NFL QB again, stand up for the rights of animals by supporting charities that prevent cruelty to animals and charities that help animals in need in the way of money and time".

Just my opinion.
07/27/2009 08:41:15 PM · #20
Originally posted by robs:

I really find it fascinating.... Could care less about football or whoever the guy is but.... I not sure what to make of the fact it's such a big deal about dog fighting when killing people (as in not domestic animals) directly and indirectly around the world is background noise that barely rates a mention on the US news.... but hurt a dog and it's all over the place. Fascinating.... I forget is, PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals or is that something else :-)

Okay.... Bad bad... I will sit back in the corner now... :-)


Amen. No word about the rapists and assaulters playing football, just the guy who was mean to dogs. I find it fascinating as well. Some people eat dogs. Can they play football?
07/27/2009 11:02:00 PM · #21
Originally posted by posthumous:

Some people eat dogs. Can they play football?

Not if they engage in food fights. ;-)
07/27/2009 11:40:32 PM · #22
Ok you can't make a good comparison at all between an NFL player and a teacher. There is literally no overlap, besides the fact they are both professions. Teachers directly have a hand in teaching and interacting with your children, their actions rub off in a bigger way than you realize. Michael Vick doesn't, he is somewhat a role model but only as much as a parent allows. He won't be talking to, and teaching your children values and ideals to live their lives by. Barring all felons from the NFL or any profession would just be a step back for society, they paid there dues in jail. I've never been to jail and I bet few, if any, of you have either. I'm sure it isn't as light a punishment as you think it is, or at least are making it out to be. He was a young millionaire, he was arrogant and he got a reality check in a big way. Everyone deserves a second chance, at least someone as young as him.
07/27/2009 11:42:08 PM · #23
Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by robs:

I really find it fascinating.... Could care less about football or whoever the guy is but.... I not sure what to make of the fact it's such a big deal about dog fighting when killing people (as in not domestic animals) directly and indirectly around the world is background noise that barely rates a mention on the US news.... but hurt a dog and it's all over the place. Fascinating.... I forget is, PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals or is that something else :-)

Okay.... Bad bad... I will sit back in the corner now... :-)


Amen. No word about the rapists and assaulters playing football, just the guy who was mean to dogs. I find it fascinating as well. Some people eat dogs. Can they play football?


For the record, the original post started with the Michael Vik bit, but also included in gist ANY and ALL professional sports figures or celebrities that commit crimes and then get the luxury of returning to their craft as if nothing had really transpired. Dallas finally got rid of our recent criminal and I couldn't even tell you what the guy had done. (He didn't perfom that well on the field either, so Jerry sent him packing...oh, oh, Packman Jones..but still don't know what he did.

People do deserve a second chance, but for those in the spotlight that do bad things, IMO, they should feel obligated to go over and above what the law requires and what the average joe would do only because of the status they have and the fact that fans (society) have played a huge part in raising them to celebrity level.
Out of respect for those fans and for the "black mark" they have given (whatever craft) they should exemplify the model reformed person and prove they deserve the second chance they are getting. Their second chance is still far and away better than the first chance many have never gotten. :)

07/28/2009 12:09:49 AM · #24
Role Model? If my kid is involved in dog fighting, It's my fault. Not the people in the posters he has on his wall.....
07/28/2009 12:23:11 AM · #25
Originally posted by neophyte:

Role Model? If my kid is involved in dog fighting, It's my fault. Not the people in the posters he has on his wall.....


Good for you !!! But, maybe, just maybe, you're not exactly the demographic that DOES look up to football stars as football heroes.. Some do.. Here's the transcript from a press conference he gave announcing HE FOUND GOD... Now, when I heard this, I thought to myself, he's gone coo-coo for coco puffs.. You be the judge...

I found God press conference..

I like the last paragraph specifically where he outlines who HE as in MV wants to be a hero to !!! Someone's kids are in trouble.. :-)

Message edited by author 2009-07-28 00:23:39.
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