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05/17/2004 03:02:46 AM · #1
Well the only comment received so far on mine says it is not dead centre. To my eye and my boyfriends eye when I was cropping it, it is centered. So apologies if I am a millimetre out - but I don't think that should detract from my score. I haven't had a look at the rest of the entries yet, but if we're going to get that fussy......
05/17/2004 03:04:18 AM · #2
Calipers rule!
05/17/2004 03:04:49 AM · #3
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Calipers rule!


Metric?
05/17/2004 03:12:47 AM · #4
Doesn't really matter. Using a caliper and ruler or micrometer is only an approximation anyway, trusting the accuracy of its manufacture and the dimensionable stability of its component materials.

Better to use the Euclidian method to find the center with only straight-edge and compasses ...
05/17/2004 03:14:51 AM · #5
I just draw a line across the diagonals and if the subject is not central :P
05/17/2004 03:15:11 AM · #6
looks like the anal-ysts may win out this time. sad, really.
05/17/2004 03:24:37 AM · #7
Well, I imagine it was my comment, I'll stand up for it, when the theme is "Centered" and the description is "Take a picture where the main subject is dead center." That means to me I better take the extra time to make sure that what I'm taking pictures for the challenge, and then crop them to make sure. I spent a ton of time just making sure that mine would be 'dead center.' I'm not complaining if it is 1mm off, but if I can put my mouse cursor quickly on the top and bottom and see it as being off, I will take off points. I don't think it is over-analyzing it, just saying that those pictures that are 'dead center' should be given a better score than those that are not... or am I wrong in thinking so? If not, then at what stage does it become off center?? 1 pixel? 5 pixels? 10? 20? etc...
05/17/2004 03:36:43 AM · #8
While mine happens to be centred in both directions, I can't in good conscience vote down a photo that doesn't do so.

Standard practice is to off-set your subject, so we tend to do this as a rule of thumb. The challenge is to deviate from this and centre the image...I think the concept (breaking the 'rule') is far more significant than the geometry. The challenge was designed to get us thinking outside of our typically rule-driven boxes.

A subject centred in any direction demonstrates that to me, therefore it meets the challenge. the rest of the score is then completely centred around the quality of the photo.

To me, the relentless focus on how well a photo meets the challenge actually detracts from the photos themselves. people are so worried about the details of the challenge, they sacrifice quality in the photo. Of course it needs to meet the challenge, but beyond that, it's a photo contest, not a geometry contest.
05/17/2004 03:44:43 AM · #9
While I am partial toward the photos centered both horizontally and vertically, bickering over absolute precision seems extremely silly to me. Maybe subjects are asymmetrical, and are therefore not easy to put "dead center" - I think people need to look more at what is the FOCUS of the image and how well the FOCUS is centered (and I don't mean the focus as far as fuzziness/crispness, but the part of the picture that draws the eye), rather than worrying about measuring to make sure the whole of the main element is dead center.

I have a feeling centering is the reason my score's dropped .5 in the last few votes.
05/17/2004 03:45:32 AM · #10
Originally posted by Pedro:

While mine happens to be centred in both directions, I can't in good conscience vote down a photo that doesn't do so.


Agreed

Originally posted by Pedro:

Standard practice is to off-set your subject, so we tend to do this as a rule of thumb. The challenge is to deviate from this and centre the image...I think the concept (breaking the 'rule') is far more significant than the geometry. The challenge was designed to get us thinking outside of our typically rule-driven boxes.

A subject centred in any direction demonstrates that to me, therefore it meets the challenge. the rest of the score is then completely centred around the quality of the photo.

To me, the relentless focus on how well a photo meets the challenge actually detracts from the photos themselves. people are so worried about the details of the challenge, they sacrifice quality in the photo. Of course it needs to meet the challenge, but beyond that, it's a photo contest, not a geometry contest.


This is one reason I didn't enter and the other is that also didn't have anything original to offer.
05/17/2004 03:47:59 AM · #11
Originally posted by mocabela:



I have a feeling centering is the reason my score's dropped .5 in the last few votes.


maybe not...mine has dropped that much too, and it is centred in both directions (coincidentally, but still). I think the late night north american, and mid morning UK voters are just snarly. fortunately, they'll be sleeping soon :)
05/17/2004 03:49:47 AM · #12
Originally posted by Pedro:



maybe not...mine has dropped that much too, and it is centred in both directions (coincidentally, but still). I think the late night north american, and mid morning UK voters are just snarly. fortunately, they'll be sleeping soon :)


It's only 12:48 here in California and a nice cup of tea in hand. "10's" all around :) I guess I should turn off the Steven Seagal movie.(ZZZZZ)

Message edited by author 2004-05-17 03:51:28.
05/17/2004 03:54:45 AM · #13
Originally posted by Pedro:

Originally posted by mocabela:



I have a feeling centering is the reason my score's dropped .5 in the last few votes.


maybe not...mine has dropped that much too, and it is centred in both directions (coincidentally, but still). I think the late night north american, and mid morning UK voters are just snarly. fortunately, they'll be sleeping soon :)

As an early morning UK voter I would just like to say 321.gif. Don't go blaming the anal retentive, 'this is not exactly in the centre', sleep deprived voter for your lack of photographic skill!

smiley1.gif
05/17/2004 03:55:30 AM · #14
Originally posted by Pedro:

To me, the relentless focus on how well a photo meets the challenge actually detracts from the photos themselves. people are so worried about the details of the challenge, they sacrifice quality in the photo. Of course it needs to meet the challenge, but beyond that, it's a photo contest, not a geometry contest.


Well, if that's the case, let's just do nothing but free-studies. If you want to take a great picture, it has to be both 'quality' in the photo, and 'meet the challenge.' In other words, if you want a 10 from me, you have to have both aspects, not one in favor of the other. If you don't take that into account, you are then penalizing the person that has both aspects of the photo.
05/17/2004 04:01:53 AM · #15
Originally posted by skief:

Well, if that's the case, let's just do nothing but free-studies. If you want to take a great picture, it has to be both 'quality' in the photo, and 'meet the challenge.' In other words, if you want a 10 from me, you have to have both aspects, not one in favor of the other. If you don't take that into account, you are then penalizing the person that has both aspects of the photo.


Nice try. Read what i said. I didn't say ignore the challenge, I said (I'm paraphrasing, or perhaps 'better phrasing' here) let's not get so wrapped up in the minutiae that we forget about taking purty pitchers.

it's the focus on 'how well' that I'm referring to. Is the subject in the centre? yes. then it meets the challenge. feel free to move about the cabin unfettered in your knowledge that the captain has turned off the seatbelt sign.
05/17/2004 04:03:58 AM · #16
Originally posted by robsmith:

Don't go blaming the anal retentive, 'this is not exactly in the centre', sleep deprived voter for your lack of photographic skill!

smiley1.gif


moon.gif

bite me, Smith :)
05/17/2004 04:07:07 AM · #17
Originally posted by Pedro:

Originally posted by robsmith:

Don't go blaming the anal retentive, 'this is not exactly in the centre', sleep deprived voter for your lack of photographic skill!

smiley1.gif


moon.gif

bite me, Smith :)

Watch where you're pointing that earhole!
05/17/2004 04:08:21 AM · #18
Originally posted by robsmith:

Originally posted by Pedro:

Originally posted by robsmith:

Don't go blaming the anal retentive, 'this is not exactly in the centre', sleep deprived voter for your lack of photographic skill!

smiley1.gif


moon.gif

bite me, Smith :)

Watch where you're pointing that earhole!


rofl.gif
05/17/2004 04:13:04 AM · #19
Originally posted by Pedro:

it's the focus on 'how well' that I'm referring to. Is the subject in the centre? yes. then it meets the challenge.


This is where it gets subjective Pedro... You have to define (for yourself) what it means to "Take a picture where the main subject is dead center" Dead center to me means the bullseye of the dartboard (haven't seen that yet in judging photos, thought for sure it would be there with 2 darts sticking out at different angles), not just centered in one direction. But that is 'my' definition of dead center. And since I am doing the judging, to me the picture that is centered in both directions, is going to do better than the one that is not. Or do you not think that one picture can 'meet the challenge' better than another one?
05/17/2004 04:20:59 AM · #20
Originally posted by skief:

This is where it gets subjective Pedro... You have to define (for yourself) what it means to "Take a picture where the main subject is dead center" Dead center to me means the bullseye of the dartboard (haven't seen that yet in judging photos, thought for sure it would be there with 2 darts sticking out at different angles), not just centered in one direction. But that is 'my' definition of dead center. And since I am doing the judging, to me the picture that is centered in both directions, is going to do better than the one that is not. Or do you not think that one picture can 'meet the challenge' better than another one?


Of course, you're entitled to vote as you see fit - I have no objection to that (I expected dartboards too). And of course meeting the challenge is subective, and one can be more in line with your thinking than another.

my objection (not to you specifically, but to any situation like it) is to someone getting hung up on little details like that. I give quite a bit of latitude in meeting the challenge, and will ALWAYS give a better score to the better photo, assuming they both meet the challenge. I've already heard a few people say they didn't enter this one because they knew something like this would come up. it's frustrating to many, particularly because it's subjective and someone may be punished by another's lack of creativity/experience/opinion... do you get what i mean?

As I said - you vote how you see fit, as will I. I'll respect your opinion, and I'll expect that you'd offer me the same courtesy. i won't promise to agree with it...but I'll respect it :)

Pedro

Message edited by author 2004-05-17 04:21:43.
05/17/2004 05:12:51 AM · #21
I'm in the same scenario, I guess I did not take the right approach to the theme. My subject is not deadcenter, but emplies it. Now I see it's not the same :(

Oh well i'm heading for a dead last ribbon.
05/17/2004 06:27:33 AM · #22
Originally posted by Pedro:

...it's a photo contest, not a geometry contest.


Right on, Pedro! Oh people...please don't overanalyze what the definition of center is. If the "focus of attention" (subject) in the shot is in the middle, as opposed to off-center, then it's centered. Jeez, if I'd known this challenge required a protractor and compass, I'd have skipped it! :o)
05/17/2004 08:46:32 AM · #23
Have had time for a quick flick through the thumbnails and I would say that loads aren't dead centre but that won't detract from the scores I give. Maybe I need an eye test cause I judged the cropping of mine by eye.....oh well I guess that it will always be that way around here. I've said it before and I'll say it again.....we're a fickle bunch of voters!!! :)

Now I just need to find a spare lunchtime to start voting!
05/17/2004 09:04:40 AM · #24
Jeez............. What I have been doing is copying everyone's pic to my Hard Disk, then using PS to create an outline view, then exporting it to my CAD station where I use Pro Engineer to create an overlay that tells me the precise location of the center of the frame, and then I calculate the center of the subject area. If the two do not line up within the my specified tolerance, I simply give the image a score of 1 and move on.

Each image takes approximately 20 minutes to analyze thoroughly this way, hopefully I can get to everyone's image before voting ends.

I think if I were to do this again, I would use Matlab and do all the analysis on the PC. I bet I could even get it to vote for me.


05/17/2004 10:41:24 AM · #25
Originally posted by laurielblack:

Originally posted by Pedro:

...it's a photo contest, not a geometry contest.


Right on, Pedro! Oh people...please don't overanalyze what the definition of center is. If the "focus of attention" (subject) in the shot is in the middle, as opposed to off-center, then it's centered. Jeez, if I'd known this challenge required a protractor and compass, I'd have skipped it! :o)


My thoughts exactly.... there's such a thing as being too literal, folks. Lighten up and enjoy the scenery. :)
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