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07/01/2009 10:20:19 PM · #51
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


If there were more women like Lorena Bobbitt, there'd be more men who took their vows seriously.


Considering that the existence of the death penalty has not yet managed to rid us of murder, I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of this type of behaviour.

Ray
07/01/2009 10:31:23 PM · #52
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Jutilda:

His wife deserves a medal for handling this with such grace. I don't know if I'd have enough fortitude.

Oh, I have no doubt you'd have the fortitude......to cut his....8>)

If there were more women like Lorena Bobbitt, there'd be more men who took their vows seriously.


There is more to the world than Bobbitt.

Look here

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sada_Abe

and read this page from:

The "Abe Sada Incident"

Only twist in tale is that this time , the mistress created all the distress.

Message edited by author 2009-07-01 22:31:52.
07/01/2009 10:37:53 PM · #53
I haven't followed this closely, but last week a radio station was tearing him apart for his apology. They pointed out that he apologized to her first, the media, then his wife, kids, and a friend. Now it makes a bit more sense.

As far a Jason's insightful comments above about infidelity, one thing that should be added is that it could be a bad marriage. This is certainly no excuse for his behavior, but if things were great at home he probably wouldn't be straying.
07/01/2009 10:42:22 PM · #54
Originally posted by Ken:

I haven't followed this closely, but last week a radio station was tearing him apart for his apology. They pointed out that he apologized to her first, the media, then his wife, kids, and a friend. Now it makes a bit more sense.

As far a Jason's insightful comments above about infidelity, one thing that should be added is that it could be a bad marriage. This is certainly no excuse for his behavior, but if things were great at home he probably wouldn't be straying.


This is what I've been saying. Affairs of the heart are too complex for the uninvolved to understand. His hypocrisy aside..
07/01/2009 10:47:47 PM · #55
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


If there were more women like Lorena Bobbitt, there'd be more men who took their vows seriously.


Yeah...and cheating is gender specific... What should we do to the women who cheat. Perhaps if more men were like Ike Turner....My turn to say "oh please"
07/01/2009 11:00:59 PM · #56
Originally posted by Ken:

As far a Jason's insightful comments above about infidelity, one thing that should be added is that it could be a bad marriage. This is certainly no excuse for his behavior, but if things were great at home he probably wouldn't be straying.


Then you get a divorce first. Having an affair because your marriage is bad falls under the "trading up" category in my book. You are only thinking of yourself. As you said, it is "certainly no excuse" so while neophyte claims affairs of the heart are "too complex" I beg to differ. A pact was made. A pact is broken.
07/01/2009 11:05:25 PM · #57
We couldn't know who broke the pact first. While I believe that 2 wrongs don't make a right, I don't believe it's as cut and dried as some of the responders on this thread. In the end it's only my opinion which leans more torwards tolerance and patience.
07/01/2009 11:39:26 PM · #58
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07/02/2009 06:29:19 AM · #59
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

If there were more women like Lorena Bobbitt, there'd be more men who took their vows seriously.


Originally posted by neophyte:

Yeah...and cheating is gender specific... What should we do to the women who cheat. Perhaps if more men were like Ike Turner....My turn to say "oh please"


I didn't say it was gender specific.....but I think if you look at the stats, you'd see it's pretty skewed.

I've more women friends than men, and by and large, it seems that the men are more cavalier about their fidelity than women.

It was a tongue-in-cheek comment about Lorena, just so you're sure what I meant.
07/02/2009 06:38:00 AM · #60
Originally posted by Ken:

As far a Jason's insightful comments above about infidelity, one thing that should be added is that it could be a bad marriage. This is certainly no excuse for his behavior, but if things were great at home he probably wouldn't be straying.


Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Then you get a divorce first. Having an affair because your marriage is bad falls under the "trading up" category in my book. You are only thinking of yourself. As you said, it is "certainly no excuse" so while neophyte claims affairs of the heart are "too complex" I beg to differ. A pact was made. A pact is broken.

And I'm certainly neither qualified, nor informed about the specifics of the Sanfords' situation, but the bottom line is.....if the marriage is over, make the move first, get separated, get the divorce, move out, whatever.....don't just sleep around and pretend to maintain the home & marriage.

Have some semblence of decency, especially if you're in public office!

Despite a bunch of nonsense to the contrary, this guy cheated, in the public eye, was outspoken as a morality advocate, proving himself to be dishonest and a hypocrite.

What the status of the marriage is somehow doesn't cancel out the fact that he did pretty much everything wrong in this case.
07/02/2009 06:43:04 AM · #61
Originally posted by neophyte:

We couldn't know who broke the pact first. While I believe that 2 wrongs don't make a right, I don't believe it's as cut and dried as some of the responders on this thread. In the end it's only my opinion which leans more torwards tolerance and patience.

I really don't know why you're so adamant about rationalizing infidelity.

It's WRONG!!! In quite a few states, considered illegal, and virtually always grounds for divorce.

You need to concede that, because it's a fact.

You can come up with all the excuses you want to expl;ain it, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.
07/02/2009 06:59:16 AM · #62
Originally posted by milo655321:

Originally posted by neophyte:

How was he as a governor and senator? His private life should be just that; private.


Then perhaps he should stop talking about it in prearranged press interviews.

Yes, it should be private but when the person committed a crime then it will be public like he did cheating on his Wife!
07/02/2009 10:23:29 AM · #63
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by neophyte:

We couldn't know who broke the pact first. While I believe that 2 wrongs don't make a right, I don't believe it's as cut and dried as some of the responders on this thread. In the end it's only my opinion which leans more torwards tolerance and patience.

I really don't know why you're so adamant about rationalizing infidelity.

It's WRONG!!! In quite a few states, considered illegal, and virtually always grounds for divorce.

You need to concede that, because it's a fact.

You can come up with all the excuses you want to expl;ain it, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.


I don't have to conceed anything. It's my opinion. Everyone had their own standards. Mine is that I don't know enough to condemn anyone. Sorry if my position offends you.
07/02/2009 11:03:14 AM · #64
Originally posted by neophyte:

I don't have to conceed anything. It's my opinion. Everyone had their own standards. Mine is that I don't know enough to condemn anyone. Sorry if my position offends you.

Wow....

It's not opinion or someone's personal standards, it's a breach of the marital contract and in some states, against the law.

PLEASE explain how on any level personal opinion or standards affects that.

Your position doesn't offend me.....I have trouble seeing how you cannot see the facts of the issue.

You keep trying to argue the rationale which is irrelevant to the deed itself.

He cheated. He broke the marital contract, and possibly the law.

Like it or not, that makes it wrong.
07/02/2009 11:16:07 AM · #65
That's your opinion. I don't think I have to point out all the norms and laws of the past that seem pretty foolish today. The people of the times were just as adament that they were in the right. Without all the facts I'm not going to condemn regardless of what the lynch mob mentality is. A perfect example of what I'm saying is that while stealing is wrong, I wouldn't be so quick to prosecute someone who stole food because they were hungry.

I see the facts that have been presented very well.(thank you) I just don't think we know all of them and probably never will. Therefore my condemnation will have to wait..... As stated earlier "Judge not lest ye be judged."
07/02/2009 12:24:04 PM · #66
Originally posted by neophyte:

That's your opinion. I don't think I have to point out all the norms and laws of the past that seem pretty foolish today. The people of the times were just as adament that they were in the right. Without all the facts I'm not going to condemn regardless of what the lynch mob mentality is. A perfect example of what I'm saying is that while stealing is wrong, I wouldn't be so quick to prosecute someone who stole food because they were hungry.

I see the facts that have been presented very well.(thank you) I just don't think we know all of them and probably never will. Therefore my condemnation will have to wait..... As stated earlier "Judge not lest ye be judged."

I just cannot fathom why you refuse to admit that he broke the fundamental marital contract. That's not my opinion, he admitted it.

It doesn't even matter what the reason may be. He still broke the contract.

Whether or not there's a law on the books doesn't excuse it either. If there is, regardless of whether it's an antiquated law, or even oft overlooked, it still doesn't change that he broke it.

I'm obviously beating my head against the wall trying to get you to understand fact.

It's not "my opinion" or "lynch mob mentality". He broke the marital contract and possibly the law, and surely, you can see that.

I won't for one instant state that I know anything at all about the personal circumstances, and what I think about it one way or the other certainly doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever, nor should it.

But I also don't need to know what went on to know that a man in a very high profile position cheated on his wife, got caught, admitted it, and despite what seems to be an outpouring of dissatisfaction with his conduct refuses to step down.
07/02/2009 12:38:06 PM · #67
Originally posted by neophyte:

That's your opinion. I don't think I have to point out all the norms and laws of the past that seem pretty foolish today. The people of the times were just as adament that they were in the right. Without all the facts I'm not going to condemn regardless of what the lynch mob mentality is. A perfect example of what I'm saying is that while stealing is wrong, I wouldn't be so quick to prosecute someone who stole food because they were hungry.

I see the facts that have been presented very well.(thank you) I just don't think we know all of them and probably never will. Therefore my condemnation will have to wait..... As stated earlier "Judge not lest ye be judged."


this is why i made no comments about this issue about him.

my only gripe with him would be if he was after clinton for this type of matter, why he did the same himself.
Other than that we have to wait for facts.
07/02/2009 03:18:43 PM · #68
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by neophyte:

That's your opinion. I don't think I have to point out all the norms and laws of the past that seem pretty foolish today. The people of the times were just as adament that they were in the right. Without all the facts I'm not going to condemn regardless of what the lynch mob mentality is. A perfect example of what I'm saying is that while stealing is wrong, I wouldn't be so quick to prosecute someone who stole food because they were hungry.

I see the facts that have been presented very well.(thank you) I just don't think we know all of them and probably never will. Therefore my condemnation will have to wait..... As stated earlier "Judge not lest ye be judged."

I just cannot fathom why you refuse to admit that he broke the fundamental marital contract. That's not my opinion, he admitted it.

It doesn't even matter what the reason may be. He still broke the contract.

Whether or not there's a law on the books doesn't excuse it either. If there is, regardless of whether it's an antiquated law, or even oft overlooked, it still doesn't change that he broke it.

I'm obviously beating my head against the wall trying to get you to understand fact.

It's not "my opinion" or "lynch mob mentality". He broke the marital contract and possibly the law, and surely, you can see that.

I won't for one instant state that I know anything at all about the personal circumstances, and what I think about it one way or the other certainly doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever, nor should it.

But I also don't need to know what went on to know that a man in a very high profile position cheated on his wife, got caught, admitted it, and despite what seems to be an outpouring of dissatisfaction with his conduct refuses to step down.


First of all I never said I support infidelity or that I don't think its wrong.

What if turns out that his wife cheated first but the media doesn't know or isn't reporting it. Would your opinion remain the same? What if she's been mentally abusing (or physically)him for years? It's not all black and white. There's a big grey area and that's where you'll find me. I'm not condoning what he did. I'm just saying that I couldn't possibly know all the facts so therefore I reserve my judgement. You have your standards.... I have mine. And no matter how much you insist or are left confused you will not make me adopt yours. Stop banging your head and perhaps we can agree to disagree.

Judging someone before all the facts are known is something I disagree with and I consider "lynch mob".

And by the way, Women cheat as much if not more than men do. A fact you seem to dismiss.
07/02/2009 09:14:33 PM · #69
Originally posted by neophyte:

First of all I never said I support infidelity or that I don't think its wrong.

Then you'd pretty much have to agree that what he did was wrong.

Originally posted by neophyte:

What if turns out that his wife cheated first but the media doesn't know or isn't reporting it. Would your opinion remain the same?

Absolutely! He still cheated! She'd just be the same type of person then.

If someone robs a store, the store owner figures out who did it, and goes and steals from that person, is it okay because the other guy did it first?

Originally posted by neophyte:

What if she's been mentally abusing (or physically)him for years?

What bearing does that have on whether or not he broke his marriage vows?

He may have had a theoretically legitimate reason, or even one that could be justified, but that still doesn't change it.

Originally posted by neophyte:

It's not all black and white. There's a big grey area and that's where you'll find me.

How is it grey? Did he cheat? Did he break his marriage vows? Then he did wrong, no matter what the reason or the justification.

Just because he felt that it was okay doesn't make it so. A divorce, legal separation, or annullment is the only way that it isn't wrong, and really, the separation is hazy.
Originally posted by neophyte:

I'm not condoning what he did. I'm just saying that I couldn't possibly know all the facts so therefore I reserve my judgement. You have your standards.... I have mine. And no matter how much you insist or are left confused you will not make me adopt yours. Stop banging your head and perhaps we can agree to disagree.

What you don't seem to understand is that I really don't care what your standards are, nor are mine pertinent in this case. The bottom line is, regardless of circumstances, if he slept with another woman while he was married to his wife, he violated the marriage contract, and like it or not, it's wrong.

It may be able to be rationalized and understood by the majority to be justified.....maybe she slept around first, or she was physically & mentally abusive, but until there is a divorce or annullment, it's adultery, a breach of the marital contract, and by the accepted behaviors of our American society today, WRONG!
Originally posted by neophyte:

Judging someone before all the facts are known is something I disagree with and I consider "lynch mob".

Well, if you can tell me how it's lynch mob mentality to not be happy with your elected official after he got caught cheating on his wife, admitted it on national TV, and refuses to step down when popular opinion would like to see him do so, please go right ahead.

We're never going to know all the facts any more than we know all the facts when we're happy with a leader. But we can damn sure form an educated opinion when we have a situation like this right in front of us.
Originally posted by neophyte:

And by the way, Women cheat as much if not more than men do. A fact you seem to dismiss.

If you can give me some factual statistics from a reputable source to support this, I'd consider it, but it's certainly not been my experience to see that.

Women basically attach a higher level of signifigance to the experience.....perhaps you've heard the old saw?

Women need a reason; men just need a place.....
07/02/2009 11:05:26 PM · #70
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


How is it grey? Did he cheat? Did he break his marriage vows? Then he did wrong, no matter what the reason or the justification.


Let's for a moment envisage a scenario were we have a married couple in an open relationship who for whatever reasons condone the meandering of their partner... who are we to pass judgement on their activities.

I have a major problem with scenarios where we strive to criminalize morals.

Ray
07/02/2009 11:08:02 PM · #71
So do I. If what you see is all black or all white you'll never see the grey.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 23:26:35.
07/02/2009 11:26:06 PM · #72
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by neophyte:

And by the way, Women cheat as much if not more than men do. A fact you seem to dismiss.

If you can give me some factual statistics from a reputable source to support this, I'd consider it, but it's certainly not been my experience to see that.


Here's some stats Basically 21% of married men admit it and 14% of married women. Not the gaping difference you suggest.

Your experience may be a bit myopic. (as mine might be) but I know much more women who cheat. Including some who work and have worked for me as promotional models. I really don't care about it as long as they show up on time and do their jobs.

Message edited by author 2009-07-02 23:27:13.
07/03/2009 07:01:46 AM · #73
Originally posted by neophyte:

And by the way, Women cheat as much if not more than men do. A fact you seem to dismiss.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

If you can give me some factual statistics from a reputable source to support this, I'd consider it, but it's certainly not been my experience to see that.


Originally posted by neophyte:

Here's some stats Basically 21% of married men admit it and 14% of married women. Not the gaping difference you suggest.

Your experience may be a bit myopic. (as mine might be) but I know much more women who cheat. Including some who work and have worked for me as promotional models. I really don't care about it as long as they show up on time and do their jobs.

Wait a minute.....you tell me that a FACT I choose to dismiss can't even be supported by your own suplied statistic from //www.menstuff.org , which I will assume is probably going to be somewhat gender slanted????

And *MY* experience is myopic?????

Dude, I totally and completely give up!

You win, I cannot argue logic and facts like that! LOL!!!
07/03/2009 09:04:13 AM · #74
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by neophyte:

And by the way, Women cheat as much if not more than men do. A fact you seem to dismiss.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

If you can give me some factual statistics from a reputable source to support this, I'd consider it, but it's certainly not been my experience to see that.


Originally posted by neophyte:

Here's some stats Basically 21% of married men admit it and 14% of married women. Not the gaping difference you suggest.

Your experience may be a bit myopic. (as mine might be) but I know much more women who cheat. Including some who work and have worked for me as promotional models. I really don't care about it as long as they show up on time and do their jobs.

Wait a minute.....you tell me that a FACT I choose to dismiss can't even be supported by your own suplied statistic from //www.menstuff.org , which I will assume is probably going to be somewhat gender slanted????

And *MY* experience is myopic?????

Dude, I totally and completely give up!

You win, I cannot argue logic and facts like that! LOL!!!


just want to ask one question, since i have no idea about laws in US, is it illigal to sleep with another women while you are married to someone else.
Not talking about rape, just asking if two adults consent and indulge in it. Is it deemed illegal ????
07/03/2009 11:57:57 AM · #75
Originally posted by zxaar:


just want to ask one question, since i have no idea about laws in US, is it illigal to sleep with another women while you are married to someone else.
Not talking about rape, just asking if two adults consent and indulge in it. Is it deemed illegal ????


It is in fact "illegal" to sleep with someone that is not your spouse in several states. This includes cohabitation by consenting, otherwise unencumbered adults. Leftovers from the archaic "blue laws". As far as i know, it's not ever enforced in the sense that you are arrested and jailed, though there may still be some states that require that someone show "fault" to obtain a divorce, and adultery would be grounds for such a thing.
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