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06/25/2002 05:25:16 PM · #1 |
| when reveiwing results of the last challenge, corey's 3 place entry in particular, i noitced the comment from iban and i quote, " yea one less nigga yea. i know we're all entitled to our own opinion, etc. but is that type of comment tolerated here? it really bothered me that he/she couldn't keep that hatred to themselves. i believe in live and let live as long as no gets hurt in the process. i commented that some of the critiques can be scathing and maybe that goes with the terrority of sharing your work with the world. but i don't agree that personal attacks should be the norm. thank you. |
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06/25/2002 05:47:19 PM · #2 |
totally agreed queen. unfortunately, there's always some people that want to stir things up, iban seems to be one of them. he claims in his profile to be here to 'critique our ability to create good art' (or something to that effect) but that's obviously not the case.
generally, although it's hard, the best way to get these kind of people to loose interest is to not rise to the challenge.
i think (i strongly hope) i speak for most of the users of this site when i say that we don't share his sentiments or appreciate that kind of comment. i most certainly don't.
Originally posted by queen 91:
when reveiwing results of the last challenge, corey's 3 place entry in particular, i noitced the comment from iban and i quote, " yea one less nigga yea. i know we're all entitled to our own opinion, etc. but is that type of comment tolerated here? it really bothered me that he/she couldn't keep that hatred to themselves. i believe in live and let live as long as no gets hurt in the process. i commented that some of the critiques can be scathing and maybe that goes with the terrority of sharing your work with the world. but i don't agree that personal attacks should be the norm. thank you.
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06/25/2002 05:52:44 PM · #3 |
actually, i just checked the rules:
'Users should feel free and are encouraged to leave comments on a photograph using the comment box under each photograph. Criticism, praise, and other constructive comments are all welcome. Blatantly slanderous, rude, or profane comments may be removed, and the owners of such comments may be suspended or lose their accounts. '
moderators/admins, i think iban's comments definitely fall under these rules... should he be at least suspended?
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06/25/2002 05:54:53 PM · #4 |
Agreed. You beat me to it gr8. I was about to quote that, too.
Thank you, queen 91 for pointing it out, too.
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06/25/2002 05:57:26 PM · #5 |
Nigga isn't a racial slur, it's a term of endearment, specifically in expressing one's appreciation of the hip-hop culture. Nigger, on the other hand, is a racial slur. In my mind, it's the same as him saying "one less person."
The problem that you should be having with his comment is his _anger_, which probably stems from his childhood or all those crappy Dream Theater cds he keeps listening to.
More here .. |
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06/25/2002 05:59:55 PM · #6 |
From a slang dictionary website.
Another site made a comment to make sure not to confuse it with "nigger" as they''re two very different things.
Nevertheless, the comment overall seems a little offensive, if not an actual racial slur.
Course this is all coming from a guy who hasn''t really got a clue -- just one who knows how to research on the net -- and if my sources are wrong....
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/25/2002 6:01:05 PM.
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06/25/2002 06:03:27 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by gr8photos:
totally agreed queen. unfortunately, there's always some people that want to stir things up, iban seems to be one of them. he claims in his profile to be here to 'critique our ability to create good art' (or something to that effect) but that's obviously not the case.
generally, although it's hard, the best way to get these kind of people to loose interest is to not rise to the challenge.
i think (i strongly hope) i speak for most of the users of this site when i say that we don't share his sentiments or appreciate that kind of comment. i most certainly don't.
Originally posted by queen 91:
[i]when reveiwing results of the last challenge, corey's 3 place entry in particular, i noitced the comment from iban and i quote, " yea one less nigga yea. i know we're all entitled to our own opinion, etc. but is that type of comment tolerated here? it really bothered me that he/she couldn't keep that hatred to themselves. i believe in live and let live as long as no gets hurt in the process. i commented that some of the critiques can be scathing and maybe that goes with the terrority of sharing your work with the world. but i don't agree that personal attacks should be the norm. thank you.
[/i]
thank you gr8. i started not to mention it, but it really bothered me and after seeing his profile, i agree that some folks just want to be the thorn in everyone's side. i really like this site and want to become a better photographer. i consider myself a student and know there is always something more to learn. i don't give comments that are upsetting or hurtful. but this is the real world and some of that is to be expected when you publish anything. i think a low score is all that's needed instead of attacking different groups (race, full figured, unattractiveness). hopefully, i didn't open up a giant can of worms. |
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06/25/2002 06:10:37 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Patella:
From a slang dictionary website.
Another site made a comment to make sure not to confuse it with "nigger" as they''re two very different things.
Nevertheless, the comment overall seems a little offensive, if not an actual racial slur.
Course this is all coming from a guy who hasn''t really got a clue -- just one who knows how to research on the net -- and if my sources are wrong....
there's been a lot of controversy about nigga or nigger. i find both to be offensive. i don't think it makes it better that black folks use either one as a term of endearment. rap/hip hop culture has their own language rules. i don't agree that it should be acceptable. they also use bitch and other profanity prominently. i know this a way to express yourself, but i don't like being called a bitch either. thank you for your input.
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06/25/2002 06:24:25 PM · #9 |
Queen,
Actually, I found it offensive myself -- but, being a white boy currently living in not such a diverse place, I decided to look it up because I wondered if it was being used in a way that I didn't understand. In my search I learned that it may have been and decided to share what I'd learned in the forum. (Being an English major, English "variants" are always interesting to me.)
Like I said, though, just because I read it doesn't make it true. And from your position, I can see that it isn't necessarily. So, thanks for the additional "instruction". *grin*
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06/25/2002 06:25:08 PM · #10 |
queen91,
Thanks for pointing this out. I too had concerns about some of his comments, but was hesitant to mention anything after starting the whole controversy the other day. His profile also indicates use of other slurs ("dot head"). He also seems to like to use the word "gay" as a pejorative, which I personally find extremely offensive.
I'm not looking for anyone to be banned from the site or anything, but some kind of "official" remider of the site sules might be in order.
-Terry
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06/25/2002 06:30:39 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by clubjuggle:
queen91,
Thanks for pointing this out. I too had concerns about some of his comments, but was hesitant to mention anything after starting the whole controversy the other day. His profile also indicates use of other slurs ("dot head"). He also seems to like to use the word "gay" as a pejorative, which I personally find extremely offensive.
I'm not looking for anyone to be banned from the site or anything, but some kind of "official" remider of the site sules might be in order.
-Terry
i also noticed all the gay references to last weeks challenge. i forgot to mention that. thanks for pointing that out. i don't want to get anyone dumped from the site, but if they don't want to follow the rules, that would be of their own doing.
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06/25/2002 06:32:49 PM · #12 |
As far as *I* know, Corey hasn't filed a complaint about it... I agree that the rules are in place to limit this type of offensive stuff but I, ideally, think the complaint about a comment on a photo should come from the owner of the photo...
Originally posted by gr8photos:
actually, i just checked the rules:
'Users should feel free and are encouraged to leave comments on a photograph using the comment box under each photograph. Criticism, praise, and other constructive comments are all welcome. Blatantly slanderous, rude, or profane comments may be removed, and the owners of such comments may be suspended or lose their accounts. '
moderators/admins, i think iban's comments definitely fall under these rules... should he be at least suspended?
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06/25/2002 06:37:11 PM · #13 |
I checked some of His past comments after he left a lovely comment on mine which said "Cats are for homos". I'm not gay and i'm not homophobic but it sems this guy wants to provoke reactions and cause trouble. I suggest that he be suspended on the grounds that he cannot bring anything to this site other than a dirty mouth and a closed mind.
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06/25/2002 06:41:54 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
As far as *I* know, Corey hasn't filed a complaint about it... I agree that the rules are in place to limit this type of offensive stuff but I, ideally, think the complaint about a comment on a photo should come from the owner of the photo...
So unless and until the recipient of such a comment files a complaint, the rest of us are forced to read this kind of offensive, xenophobic nonsense? Again, I'm not asking that he be suspended, just that, if this type of commentary is indeed not acceptable here, that he be reminded of that fact.
-Terry
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06/25/2002 06:41:56 PM · #15 |
I really do not agree with this John. This is a public site, not a private messaging board. If two friends were on here, they could leave all kinds of offensive comments on each others photos. I think the moderators and admin's should rule the site as they see fit. If ANYONE finds something offensive, and the admin's or moderators think it is justified, remove it. If an admin or moderator finds something offensive, remove it before it becomes an issue. There really do not seem to be any critical value in that post.
b]Originally posted by jmsetzler:[/b]
As far as *I* know, Corey hasn't filed a complaint about it... I agree that the rules are in place to limit this type of offensive stuff but I, ideally, think the complaint about a comment on a photo should come from the owner of the photo...
Originally posted by gr8photos:
[i]actually, i just checked the rules:
'Users should feel free and are encouraged to leave comments on a photograph using the comment box under each photograph. Criticism, praise, and other constructive comments are all welcome. Blatantly slanderous, rude, or profane comments may be removed, and the owners of such comments may be suspended or lose their accounts. '
moderators/admins, i think iban's comments definitely fall under these rules... should he be at least suspended?
[/i]
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06/25/2002 06:47:34 PM · #16 |
These people have been suspended too many times to count already... it's fairly useless to even bother with it... the best remedy is to just ignore it...
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06/25/2002 09:08:04 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
These people have been suspended too many times to count already... it's fairly useless to even bother with it... the best remedy is to just ignore it...
john, i have to say i am fairly disappointed with that defeatist attitude! Most of the *controversial* stuff seen here is fairly harmless and varies from very humorous to plain idiotic, but occasionally we do see some things that are useless and hurtful. Those people need to be addressed. If someone sitting at the bar (where i work) says something degrading (like Nig**r) I don't wait for another customer to complain, I tell the dude that we don't tolerate that kind of crap and perhaps he would like to discuss his narrow mindedness with our (black) doorguy. Save it for your own house, don't force us to listen to it in public. If you don't let them know you aren't going to tolerate it, then they will keep on forever. Deleting posts (what is up with that?--if they arent there, they never happened?) and ignoring ugly comments isn't really going to solve anything in the long run, in my opinion.
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06/25/2002 09:17:29 PM · #18 |
This is all a bit... weird. I know a fair number of guys the same age as iban/ryano/jonathans/clay online, and they all call each other niggaz and fags. They see it as parodying mtv culture, which they don't particularly like. When African Americans and other minority groups use the derogatory terms that are aimed at them they do it to remove the shock value associated with them and make them harmless, thus disempowering their oppressors. On the other hand, when educated, young white males then use those terms, they do so to shock older conservative people, not to be racist or homophobic, especially on a site like this. You're falling for that. You are the only people who are shocked by these words now... it's a bit funny really.
Actual racism is terrible, but parroting of some words to get a rise out of middle class, middle aged white Americans is not quite the same. They're definitely not going to stop if you get offended by it. The best tactic is to laugh condescendingly and say "there there". |
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06/25/2002 09:29:10 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by clubjuggle:
I'm not looking for anyone to be banned from the site or anything, but some kind of "official" remider of the site sules might be in order.
I'm not sure what to make of the 'nigga' comment, but I don't think it by itself is grounds for suspension. We will look into further comments by this and other users. BUT, I did want to chime in on clubjuggle's comment -- nobody will ever be suspended, banned, or even sent to their rooms for constructive site criticism. Speak up :)
Drew |
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06/25/2002 09:30:45 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by lisae:
This is all a bit... weird. I know a fair number of guys the same age as iban/ryano/jonathans/clay online, and they all call each other niggaz and fags. They see it as parodying mtv culture, which they don't particularly like. When African Americans and other minority groups use the derogatory terms that are aimed at them they do it to remove the shock value associated with them and make them harmless, thus disempowering their oppressors. On the other hand, when educated, young white males then use those terms, they do so to shock older conservative people, not to be racist or homophobic, especially on a site like this. You're falling for that. You are the only people who are shocked by these words now... it's a bit funny really.
Actual racism is terrible, but parroting of some words to get a rise out of middle class, middle aged white Americans is not quite the same. They're definitely not going to stop if you get offended by it. The best tactic is to laugh condescendingly and say "there there".
this is true, and i too have several young friends that do and say the same things, no big deal--but i guess i am too much of an "underdog champion", I hate for people to get hurt/upset over that stuff. we have a 65 year old black man in our kitchen who has been there since the days where he couldn't even stand outside to wait for his ride because of his color---and these kids wouldn't even think of saying any of those things or even playing Wutang when he is working out of respect--know what i mean? and actually, i was just using the doorguy reference thing as an example--the slang stuff like you mentioned doesn't even phase me--it's the calling names like fat and just being mean that i think sucks! |
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06/25/2002 09:40:11 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by lisae:
On the other hand, when educated, young white males then use those terms, they do so to shock older conservative people, not to be racist or homophobic, especially on a site like this. You''re falling for that. You are the only people who are shocked by these words now... it''s a bit funny really.
I don''t see anything educated about it. I think the real thing lacking in this case is respect. Hopefully someday they will have some for others...but from what I''ve seen here..it''s not going to happen. This is an excellent site, as I''ve said before. But this type of behavior taints it. People can choose to not read forums...but they can''t choose to not read their comments. It''s offensive...and if this website is only going to cater to the young and this is how the young behave...then I guess I''m too old to be here.
I think it''s disappointing because this site is a site worthy of receiving international recognition. More than that....it''s well done. This taints how your customers see the people who operate this site as well, and how well they will be able to rely on control from them in a business situation. You do have business outside of this website...am I correct? In the business world and in all worlds...(if you want to get ahead) there is a way to behave with your ''friends'' and a way to behave in your business dealings. I think some should learn the difference between the two.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/25/2002 9:49:15 PM.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/25/2002 9:52:12 PM. |
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06/25/2002 09:43:59 PM · #22 |
It's not a defeatist attitude... My attitude towards those comments is that I choose to ignore them. If you want to fight them, then more power to you... they simply don't interest me and I would rather spend my time doing other things...
Originally posted by amitchell:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]These people have been suspended too many times to count already... it's fairly useless to even bother with it... the best remedy is to just ignore it...
john, i have to say i am fairly disappointed with that defeatist attitude! Most of the *controversial* stuff seen here is fairly harmless and varies from very humorous to plain idiotic, but occasionally we do see some things that are useless and hurtful. Those people need to be addressed. If someone sitting at the bar (where i work) says something degrading (like Nig**r) I don't wait for another customer to complain, I tell the dude that we don't tolerate that kind of crap and perhaps he would like to discuss his narrow mindedness with our (black) doorguy. Save it for your own house, don't force us to listen to it in public. If you don't let them know you aren't going to tolerate it, then they will keep on forever. Deleting posts (what is up with that?--if they arent there, they never happened?) and ignoring ugly comments isn't really going to solve anything in the long run, in my opinion.
[/i]
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06/25/2002 09:46:57 PM · #23 |
I agree with John that I'd rather spend my time worrying about other things. However, I disagree with John and do think it is defeatist to let it go unpunished. The offender ought to be suspended, imho. If he is a repeat offender the suspension can be longer. If it still continues, the suspension can be permanent.
sjgleah |
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06/25/2002 09:47:06 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Actual racism is terrible, but parroting of some words to get a rise out of middle class, middle aged white Americans is not quite the same. They're definitely not going to stop if you get offended by it. The best tactic is to laugh condescendingly and say "there there".[/i]
But when we see kids throwing rocks at passing cars, we want them to stop, right? Even when it's not affecting us (or our cars) directly, we are still gripped with the urge to interrupt the activity, because while it may be construed as harmless, there is the probability that damage will be done.
The overall tone in the remarks (this is gay, camel jockey, etc.) is really nasty. How do you think someone can casually say things like that without harboring at least a sizable belief in it? It's not funny, and I don't think that by letting it go unchecked (and tacitly approving) is the right thing to do. |
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06/25/2002 09:47:43 PM · #25 |
Here is my 2 cents. As a Southern white woman who has witnessed first hand the Civil Rights Movement, I don't approve of that kind of language no matter how you dress it up. There has been too much hatred in the past to laugh something like this off. I know the word can be used by guys joking with each other and no harm is done. The way the comment was presented, it sounds too close to a racial slur to be taken lightly. Iban has put his foot in his mouth on at least one other occasion by leaving the one word comment "fat" for a photo of a teenage girl. He claimed he meant "phat" as in fine.
I tried to address this issue to the other moderators but no one has responded yet. I don't know if I am alone in my opinion amongst the moderators but I really believe this time the "joking" went a little too far.
I would like to see an apology from Iban in the forums and hopefully he will learn to stop using the slang.
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