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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Lowest Winning Scores - 2009 = Tough Year
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04/13/2009 03:08:49 PM · #1
Lowest All time Winning Scores - 4 of the Bottom 10 lowest WINNING scores of ALL time occured this year. 4 challenges in BOLD.

Judging getting tougher on higher scores, poor entries, economy is affecting the vote, more/less entries, etc. What are your opinions?

Affluence (Basic Editing IV)
Jul. 27th 2005 - Aug. 2nd 2005 225 6.4194

Childhood Without Children II (Basic Editing)
Jan. 16th 2008 - Jan. 22nd 2008 137 6.4297

Unlucky (Basic Editing)
Dec. 31st 2008 - Jan. 6th 2009
69 6.4481

Stupid, Stupid! (Basic Editing IV)
Aug. 9th 2006 - Aug. 15th 2006 92 6.4695

Garbage II (Basic Editing IV)
Nov. 2nd 2005 - Nov. 8th 2005 207 6.5115

Pride (Basic Editing IV)
Oct. 5th 2005 - Oct. 11th 2005 153 6.5170

Glasses (Advanced Editing)
Jan. 14th 2009 - Jan. 20th 2009
133 6.5247

Abstract Motion (Basic Editing)
Mar. 18th 2009 - Mar. 24th 2009
227 6.5344

End (Basic Editing)
Jan. 28th 2009 - Feb. 3rd 2009
145 6.5464

After the Game (Basic Editing IV)
Oct. 18th 2006 - Oct. 24th 2006 79 6.5485

Message edited by author 2009-04-13 15:29:28.
04/13/2009 03:16:15 PM · #2
Only 3 of these are from 09.

I think its a combination of factors... voting is tougher, but I dont think the quality of images has gone down. There arent drastically fewer entries. DPCO might play into it a bit, but I dont think its that worrying a trend... 3 of these are from 05, and if you look at post cards, a 7+ didnt even guarantee top 10, let alone a ribbon.

Edit:
Might have to do with the themes too... Glasses, End, and Abstract Motion are more out of the box themes as it is, and out of the box entries dont score as well IMO, even if they are amazing shots.

Message edited by author 2009-04-13 15:18:03.
04/13/2009 03:23:54 PM · #3
I count 4 of the top 10. Maybe its Missouri Math though. :D

Matt
04/13/2009 03:27:36 PM · #4
Yeah, well...what's the point? Three of them ended in months that begin with 'J' too. Hmm...
04/13/2009 03:31:07 PM · #5
Originally posted by MattO:

I count 4 of the top 10. Maybe its Missouri Math though. :D

Matt


Ah... I was looking at the start dates, not the end dates.... its definitely my math.
04/13/2009 03:45:05 PM · #6
Originally posted by CEJ:

Yeah, well...what's the point? Three of them ended in months that begin with 'J' too. Hmm...

The point is a question in which I'm curious of others feedback. With 1000+ challenges and 4 of 10 in 2009 is in my opinion something to talk about in forum. If you don't find the topic interesting than that's fine with me but I don't feel that your "months ending in J" is a comparable analogy.

04/13/2009 03:55:22 PM · #7
I think that as many people here improve over time, the bar gets raised. What one previously saw as "pretty good" is now "just ok".

Interesting thing, though is I feel in some regards, my own voting has gotten more lenient as I learn to appreciate other genres of photography and recognize the skill and creativity that went into something. In other regards I am harsher, because some types of shots do not impress me the way they did several years ago. It probably balances out for me, but I'm not giving the highest votes to what I would have a while back.
04/13/2009 04:18:34 PM · #8
Well in a way it is 'comprable' since it doesn't matter! Likable trends on the site are constantly changing, membership/participating members/users is constantly changing and challenge topics change each week. There have been some very 'abstract' or 'conceptual' topics the past few months which are always hard on the voting scale. Add to that that this year has seen global stresses of many kinds to many people possibly affecting attitudes; 5460 new registrants to the site in the last 6 months with 3132 of them since 1/1/2009 alone so there is the learning curve associated with participating in the sites activities. For all you/we know by the end of 2009 the site will have had 4 of the highest scoring challenges to date. This year alone already has seen the largest - in almost every respect - challenge in the sites history. So again, what is the point? It can and will change with every challenge.

Why not look at how many 'new' people are performing as if they have been here years? Or how many first time ribbon winners there have been so far this year? Why look at the one set of numbers that can be construed as negative instead of the many sets of numbers that can be seen as positive?

EDIT: Oh, and what Yo_Spiff said.

Edit: How about 26% of the last 30 challenges have had first time ribbon winners? Congrats to them all!

Message edited by author 2009-04-13 20:49:50.
04/13/2009 04:22:38 PM · #9
never mind. lol

Message edited by author 2009-04-13 16:24:50.
04/13/2009 04:25:20 PM · #10
I was just looking at the challenge history, and the median scores... Nothing from 2009 appears in the first 2-3 pages of either the lowest, or the highest median scores.

Perhaps voters are lumping a lot more photos into their 'average' category. The bar has been raised because so many great photos have been entered in the past, and we are unconsciously or consciously comparing new photos to the great photos from before... but we are also more tolerant of different viewpoints, and photos that normally score very low, are getting higher scores.

So... in short.... what 21.gif Yo_Spiff said!!
04/13/2009 05:01:44 PM · #11
I don't want to get into a pissing game. This is a forum for thoughts, ideas, questions, comments, etc. If you don't agree with the content than you have the right to disagree. I respect your opinion and comments even if you don't see a point in the posting. Thank you.

Originally posted by CEJ:

Well in a way it is 'comprable' since it doesn't matter! Likable trends on the site are constantly changing, membership/participating members/users is constantly changing and challenge topics change each week. There have been some very 'abstract' or 'conceptual' topics the past few months which are always hard on the voting scale. Add to that that this year has seen global stresses of many kinds to many people possibly affecting attitudes; 5460 new registrants to the site in the last 6 months with 3132 of them since 1/1/2009 alone so there is the learning curve associated with participating in the sites activities. For all you/we know by the end of 2009 the site will have had 4 of the highest scoring challenges to date. This year alone already has seen the largest - in almost every respect - challenge in the sites history. So again, what is the point? It can and will change with every challenge.

Why not look at how many 'new' people are performing as if they have been here years? Or how many first time ribbon winners there have been so far this year? Why look at the one set of numbers that can be construed as negative instead of the many sets of numbers that can be seen as positive?

EDIT: Oh, and what Yo_Spiff said.
04/13/2009 05:15:24 PM · #12
I'm with Carlo on this one - will be watching this one throughout the year - I think all Carlo is doing is pointing out a pretty interesting fact - I dont think he is trying to be controversial or start an argument.
04/13/2009 05:20:51 PM · #13
I think the phenomenon could be explained by more people voting in each challenge. I haven't gone back and looked the numbers, but more people voting would mean that a wider range of preferences are being "displayed" statistically speaking it would push each entry closer to the mean vote in the challenge. This would contract the overall range of scores.

I don't have time, but I would be curious to see where the lowest vote in the challenges you mentioned lies. My guess is that it would be higher than lowest vote in other challenges.

I hope I am making some kind of sense with this... ;-)
04/13/2009 09:49:38 PM · #14
Originally posted by Five_Seat:

I hope I am making some kind of sense with this... ;-)

Makes total sense. a greater sampling of opinions will naturally give a more unified, or compressed range.
04/14/2009 01:15:20 AM · #15
I've definitely noticed it over the last several months. I first noticed a downward trend back when DPCO-III started. I'm not sure what happened, but if some other folks are like me, I'd much prefer to see new and unique shots instead of something that is rehashed over and over again. Other than *having to submit* a shot for the DPCO (and something that might be very last minute just to get a point), I try to find shots that haven't been done umpteen times before. Just because I have a shot that scored well doesn't mean I'm going to keep using the same subject or model again. I also like to do a search on the photos to see if an idea I have has already been entered before. Personally, I like to mix it up and not be recognizable. (I'm not anyways)

If I feel this way about repetitive shots, there has got to be many more out there that feel that way too and vote down hard just to make a point. Basssman7's last wolf shot is a great example here. What does eleven '1' votes tell you? I think some people got jealous of his previous high scores with those wolves and gutted his more recent shot. I certainly don't condone that type of voting, but I can understand why those votes came his way. If he had spaced his wolf shots out over a several month span, I don't think there would be a problem. It's when you enter 6 shots of the same subject matter within a two month time frame and garner two ribbons and a top ten, some folks might get peeved. As with the DPCO challenges, I don't vote on my teammates' shots because I have already seen them and know who took them. I'm starting to do the same with regular challenges now too just because I'd rather not hurt or help a shot done by someone who is clearly recognizable.
04/14/2009 02:38:55 AM · #16
Originally posted by VitaminB:

I was just looking at the challenge history, and the median scores... Nothing from 2009 appears in the first 2-3 pages of either the lowest, or the highest median scores.

Perhaps voters are lumping a lot more photos into their 'average' category. The bar has been raised because so many great photos have been entered in the past, and we are unconsciously or consciously comparing new photos to the great photos from before... but we are also more tolerant of different viewpoints, and photos that normally score very low, are getting higher scores.

So... in short.... what 21.gif Yo_Spiff said!!


I'd have to agree. Images that were ribbon winners in the past may not even make top 20 with our current standards. I've always wondered what a "Best of DPC" challenge would yield. (i.e take all the ribbon winners and give the voters two weeks to vote on them again). Or even a "Vote for your 3 favorite ribbon winners" contest. Actually...that could be just a thread....(watch for it!)
04/14/2009 03:54:07 AM · #17
My blue is at the bottom of that list...(
04/14/2009 11:35:19 AM · #18
Originally posted by ti_evom:

If I feel this way about repetitive shots, there has got to be many more out there that feel that way too and vote down hard just to make a point. Basssman7's last wolf shot is a great example here. What does eleven '1' votes tell you? I think some people got jealous of his previous high scores with those wolves and gutted his more recent shot. I certainly don't condone that type of voting, but I can understand why those votes came his way. If he had spaced his wolf shots out over a several month span, I don't think there would be a problem. It's when you enter 6 shots of the same subject matter within a two month time frame and garner two ribbons and a top ten, some folks might get peeved. As with the DPCO challenges, I don't vote on my teammates' shots because I have already seen them and know who took them. I'm starting to do the same with regular challenges now too just because I'd rather not hurt or help a shot done by someone who is clearly recognizable.


Just to play Devil's advocate here, the name of our site is DPChallenge, and it's not totally out of line to think our people should *challenge* themselves, now is it? Back in the day, I used to get beat up on a little over "skiffs & sunsets", which I shot a lot of and scored real well with, although I never had a run like the Wolf run. And I took those complaints to heart. I looked at what I was doing and said to myself, "Aren't you getting a little bored with putting up the same ol' same ol' just because it guarantees a decent score?"

When I found myself answering the question in the affirmative, I went out and shot *anything but skiffs & sunsets* for DPC, and I've actually had more fun, though nobody much cares for what I'm doing lately, besides me of course :-) I'm entering Lensbabies in free studies, I'm deliberately shooting "interesting" (to me) things that don't have the resonance factor with the voters, and this suits me just fine.

Everyone's gotta do what they gotta do, of course, but *personally* I get a little disappointed at the folks who find a winning formula and stick with it...

R.

Message edited by author 2009-04-14 12:09:16.
04/14/2009 01:45:08 PM · #19
Originally posted by Carlo21:

Lowest All time Winning Scores - 4 of the Bottom 10 lowest WINNING scores of ALL time occured this year.


It's cos I didn't enter any of these challenges ;-o !!!!
04/27/2009 03:25:51 AM · #20
Sorry to be late getting into this thread. I just happened across it and noticed my name mentioned.

I agree that obviously I was being sent a message with the 11 votes of one on my last (and best) wolf image. I have an issue with the fact that out of the many low scores, no one had the internal fortitude to actually leave a comment. The votes had nothing to do with the quality of the image and either a) because they were tired of wolf shots because I had entered quite a few and someone else ribboned with one at the same time I did or b) the figured because it was a wolf shot that it was mine and voted it down.

On the other hand I also recently tried my hand at water drops for the first time. I got a shot which for a water drop was quite unique so I entered it and got hammered for it! Yes there has been lots of water drops shots, mostly by a couple of people that have done very well with them. Perhaps the voters thought they were voting down one of those two members, not realizing it was entered by someone that had never entered one before.

The entire dpc mentality of what is considered top notch for awhile and what is "out of style" has always fascinated me. I know some people automatically vote a 1 if it is a photo of a cat. (or a wolf!) For others it is the drop shots, or woodies, or whatever they happen to be tired of on that particular day. When will people start to vote down beautiful shots with the Northern Lights in them? Or close up headshots of eagles taken at the zoo? In time I am sure they will and those posting them will have to adjust accordingly.

I have no issue with someone being tired of seeing several wolf shots in a row in challenges, that is their right. :) What I have an issue with is when people vote them down with a 1 no matter how good the shot was just to ruin the chances it might ribbon, and then not have the guts to leave a comment with the low vote, so instead they "hide" behind their vote of one.


04/27/2009 05:05:55 AM · #21
I don't know why people feel the need to vote down shots they are tired of, afterall practically everything has been done before in some fashion or another anyway.

Just to address your point about your water drop shot, to be honest with you I don't think it was hammered, I think it's probably about right for a Freestudy, had you entered it in a fitting challenge I think it would have done much better. Apart from the 3x1s which could be argued as the normal troll votes, you have a pretty normal bell curve.

I do think that lately there are considerably more hyper-critical voters than there were 6 months ago, more and more when I look at whose-online and check a few profiles I see sub 5 averages (and also lots of sub 4s), mostly (but not always) it is fairly new accounts and quite often I notice them with 0 challenges entered. Not a rant just a simple statement of my findings :p

Originally posted by basssman7:

Sorry to be late getting into this thread. I just happened across it and noticed my name mentioned.

I agree that obviously I was being sent a message with the 11 votes of one on my last (and best) wolf image. I have an issue with the fact that out of the many low scores, no one had the internal fortitude to actually leave a comment. The votes had nothing to do with the quality of the image and either a) because they were tired of wolf shots because I had entered quite a few and someone else ribboned with one at the same time I did or b) the figured because it was a wolf shot that it was mine and voted it down.

On the other hand I also recently tried my hand at water drops for the first time. I got a shot which for a water drop was quite unique so I entered it and got hammered for it! Yes there has been lots of water drops shots, mostly by a couple of people that have done very well with them. Perhaps the voters thought they were voting down one of those two members, not realizing it was entered by someone that had never entered one before.

The entire dpc mentality of what is considered top notch for awhile and what is "out of style" has always fascinated me. I know some people automatically vote a 1 if it is a photo of a cat. (or a wolf!) For others it is the drop shots, or woodies, or whatever they happen to be tired of on that particular day. When will people start to vote down beautiful shots with the Northern Lights in them? Or close up headshots of eagles taken at the zoo? In time I am sure they will and those posting them will have to adjust accordingly.

I have no issue with someone being tired of seeing several wolf shots in a row in challenges, that is their right. :) What I have an issue with is when people vote them down with a 1 no matter how good the shot was just to ruin the chances it might ribbon, and then not have the guts to leave a comment with the low vote, so instead they "hide" behind their vote of one.
04/27/2009 11:19:33 AM · #22
Yeah this is an interesting topic... There is definitely an ebb & flow to scoring trends on this site, on the whole I feel like the competition is getting progressively stiffer, but I also think some of the great creativity/uniqueness might have peaked.

I don't give 1's on rehashed images (nor do i condone it) but when I see something over and over again without real variation I just subconsciously don't give it the highest score. Instead of being wow'd and giving a 10 I settle on a 7 maybe, acknowledging the superior quality of the shot but I reserve my highest scores for stuff that blows me away - I think other folk do this too and so repeat images get less 10's which would otherwise buoy them up to a ribbon.
04/27/2009 11:47:51 AM · #23
I think this is an interesting topic. I agree that the voting has gotten tougher -- but probably justifiably. I think there are some of the best photographers in the world on dpChallenge, and their winning photos spoil the voters to expect that quality and creativity with every photo. To me, it seems that there are usually a few to several top notch photos in every challenge, but there also seems to be a fair amount that really aren't very good at all. So, the voters, expecting those flawless and brilliantly creative photos get bored with anything less. I know for myself, I am entering a LOT fewer challenges now because so often, I'll decide in the end that it just won't cut the muster with those discriminating voters. Right now, I have one in the Animals in Motion challenge that I thought was perfect and award worthy, and its in a very "also ran" middle of the pack range of 6.4. Sigh. But I think its good to keep the bar high. It makes the challenge tougher -- and in the end, I think it makes us better.
04/27/2009 12:02:38 PM · #24
Damn. I'd kill for an "also ran" at 6.4 these days. Seriously! I have more sub-5's this year than all my previous time on DPC combined. I'm thinkin' that's not a good thing. I don't think scoring is particularly tougher - maybe competition is stiffer? I don't know. But I do think I'll give all potential ribbon winners a 2 just so I can watch the complaining. Problem with that is I generally have no idea who the ribbon winners will be... So 2's for everyone!!! :-)

Oh, and I post all my new stuff to Facebook these days - a MUCH easier crowd to please. :-)

Message edited by author 2009-04-27 12:09:07.
04/27/2009 12:51:05 PM · #25
It clearly is that the bar is higher. Amazing photos are still entered every week, and clearly, the site as a whole is producing consistently strong images. But--with more members, and members who have been here for a long time, scores are ultimately lower.

It has to do with individual improvement as well. If you come to the site with a lower skill set and rate photos, you will probably rate many at a higher level. With improvement of your own skills, your eye will be more discerning and tougher critically.

Look at the first table shot challenge.
Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_106.jpg
This is the highest rated shot on the site. Its not a bad image, but it doesn't have the wow factor of many here. And although it has the highest score, its not the best image on the site. But it was taken years ago (it is image number 106) I would imagine it would top out at a 5.5 or so now.
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