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05/06/2004 06:01:01 PM · #1 |
| I am starting to worry that my positive comments are too "oh-how-beautiful" and that my critical ones come off sounding harsh, mean, or that I am so much better (which I'm not!). Have any of you felt this way???? |
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05/06/2004 06:03:24 PM · #2 |
make the comment anyway. I know that is what I'm here for, to learn from others. If a pic makes you feel "oh, how pretty" then say that. It helps to know what is effective. and any criticism followed by an explination always helps. some people are thin skinned, and can be rude, but I want all the comments I can get.
drake |
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05/06/2004 06:03:41 PM · #3 |
I like to leave both negative and postive comments at the same time on the same photo. It can only help them in the future.
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 18:04:12. |
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05/06/2004 06:08:22 PM · #4 |
Lately, I try to find something good to comment on, even if the point of the comment is to make a constructive criticism. I know that most everyone here on this site knows WAY more than I do, but I can certainly give my own honest opinion. I try not to sound rude or condescending. Sometimes I have tried to say something in jest or that was sort of sarcastic humor, but each time it bites me in the butt, so now I think I will just try to say both positive and constructive criticism in the same comment.
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05/06/2004 06:12:38 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
I am starting to worry that my positive comments are too "oh-how-beautiful" and that my critical ones come off sounding harsh, mean, or that I am so much better (which I'm not!). Have any of you felt this way???? |
Yes, of course. But look at it this way. It takes practice to find the appropriate diplomatic words, so don't worry about it in the early part of your critiquing career. If you get pms because you were nasty, don't worry about it. The more you critique, the more you will learn the art of critiquing. It also helps to read other critiquers - I find the critiques of dsidwell and jmsetzler very helpful - especially their critique club comments. Go to their profiles and click on comments made especially the helpful ones. In time, you will become a better critiquer.
But don't be afraid to be blunt. I mean, if you need to stress a point in your comments, sometimes being blunt is effective.
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 18:19:10. |
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05/06/2004 06:14:25 PM · #6 |
| Thank you, all of you. Made me feel better and that I should keep trying to get it "right"! |
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05/06/2004 06:16:21 PM · #7 |
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05/06/2004 06:16:26 PM · #8 |
Like faidoi and laurielblack I try to be positive if leaving a 'negative' critique (even though it should actually be positive if I'm actually assisting in any way!).
However when receiving comments abrupt and seemingly rude comments can sometimes cut to the chase, so I don't take them to heart but look for the purpose in them to see how I could have improved.
Sometimes it takes too much time to find a way of softening the blow - so I just wade in if necessary! Although the 'wow - that's nice' kind of comment is complimentary it often doesn't help as much as a stiff, honest bit of advice or opinion. |
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05/06/2004 06:19:50 PM · #9 |
There is always something positive to say about every image.
Acknowledge the positives first and your constructive criticisms are more readily accepted.
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05/06/2004 06:29:37 PM · #10 |
| Well said by all! I guess the toughest for me are my 1 & 2's . . . . do you ever feel that a photo is here that really shouldn't have been??? Almost like a joke??? I did find myslef floundering around last night trying to soften stuff until sometimes it was stupid to say anything. It's really the 1's and 2' that concern mr as to how I approach. |
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05/06/2004 06:33:33 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
Well said by all! I guess the toughest for me are my 1 & 2's . . . . do you ever feel that a photo is here that really shouldn't have been??? Almost like a joke??? I did find myslef floundering around last night trying to soften stuff until sometimes it was stupid to say anything. It's really the 1's and 2' that concern mr as to how I approach. |
I try to say something like, "Good attempt. I can see what you were trying to capture, but I feel that the ..... (lighting is too harsh, framing is wrong, subject is too blurry, etc. etc.)" or something like "Have you tried _____________ (cropping, adjusting the levels, etc. etc.)? It might make this good shot a great one."
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05/06/2004 06:34:51 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
Originally posted by Kylie:
Well said by all! I guess the toughest for me are my 1 & 2's . . . . do you ever feel that a photo is here that really shouldn't have been??? Almost like a joke??? I did find myslef floundering around last night trying to soften stuff until sometimes it was stupid to say anything. It's really the 1's and 2' that concern mr as to how I approach. |
I try to say something like, "Good attempt. I can see what you were trying to capture, but I feel that the ..... (lighting is too harsh, framing is wrong, subject is too blurry, etc. etc.)" or something like "Have you tried _____________ (cropping, adjusting the levels, etc. etc.)? It might make this good shot a great one." |
Yeah like that. You can practice on my pictures :) |
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05/06/2004 06:35:52 PM · #13 |
| Excellent method! What would you say to one that there is literally nothing there in focus or sometimes like a beer can on the sidewalk for "Flowers"? |
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05/06/2004 06:36:54 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
Excellent method! What would you say to one that there is literally nothing there in focus or sometimes like a beer can on the sidewalk for "Flowers"? |
Well, how about "That's certainly an original interpretation of the challenge instructions. However, it just isn't my taste."
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05/06/2004 06:44:30 PM · #15 |
Gotcha. You guys are extremely helpful. Ever notice what an intelligent bunch photographers are? LOL (I did mean that you really are an intelligent group of people here at this site . . . there I go again worrying that I sounded sacrcastic!)
Message edited by author 2004-05-06 18:45:57. |
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05/06/2004 07:35:13 PM · #16 |
At the end of the day I always feel awful, thinkin of people sitting by theire computers thinking off throwing the camerea away. No it's maybe not so bad but to leave a negative comment is just cruel but I do it all the time. The reason I do it is because I know that the negative comments is what have thought me the most here. So to everyone that has any grudge against these comments please ignore them, they are all ment in a good way. Although two persons have contact me complaining about how I am to critisize theire shots, I have decided not to stop it but to comment always what is on my heart and you will just have to be strong learn from them
To all the people how thinks I'm being unfair: Sorry :) |
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05/06/2004 07:54:16 PM · #17 |
After I commented to one entrant that his photo was poorly composed, he responded (PM) that I had no business criticizing his images because I had entered so few challenges!
If an image is not appealing, for whatever reason, I will say so. Long time members with a lot of entries are to be commended for their persistance, but an unwillingness to accept critique is an unwillingness to learn.
Poor photography is poor regardless of how often it is repeated, quantity does not equate to quality.
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05/06/2004 08:05:43 PM · #18 |
I feel that I am being harsh someitmes, but then I remind myself that those are the comments that help me out the best. When I comments, I think to myself and say "What would I want this comments to sound like if I were this person?" I generally tell what is good about the photo and the strong-points of the shot, then I kindly state what would help improve the photo and I try to express it as just my opinion.
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05/06/2004 08:12:52 PM · #19 |
I was just thinking this morning that I had felt really good about all of the comments on my photo in this challenge. It's really helped.
When I entered a truly awful image in the last challenge (a last minute mistake that I won't do again!) the results were more mixed. The majority of people gave me really good constructive feedback (they didn't like the photo, but still helped me), but a couple were just plain mean and offered no useful feedback at all.
I appreciate that the majority of people really try to help people even when it's hard to comment on the image. I'm doing my best to return the favour. |
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05/10/2004 02:13:46 PM · #20 |
| But should you say something nice about a photo even if there is nothing there to like? Isn't that just encouraging that person to keep doing it the same way? I agree that critiquing is hard. I personally love getting feedback, positive or negative. If someone is rude to me I just laugh. I took the picture, entered it into the challenge, so therefore I must have liked it. That is what counts. Shoot for yourself first and the rest of the world after. Don't let negative comments get to you. Learn from them as much as you can. And if you do get a very rude and not helpful critique, flick your middle finger at the screen and smile. You'll feel better *wink*. I bet someone would have something crappy to say about even the most highly prized photograph in the world...whatever that may be. You can't please everyone, so just please yourself first. |
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05/10/2004 03:21:23 PM · #21 |
| Some of the best (spelled most effective) comments I've gotten are not very nice. I also have been known to leave a not so nice comment sometimes when there is no way to soften the blow. I have only once or twice gotten bad PM's back from the photographer. In both instances I said to my self 'damn, what an a$$#0le', deleted the PM and lived the rest of my life in peace! |
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05/10/2004 04:05:06 PM · #22 |
Keep in mind Kylie, you did not just magically get a hold of these peoples private photos and force your evaluation on them. They willingly submitted them for all the world (at least the dpc world) to see and judge. If someone has been around enough to submit, they obviously must understand that that is the whole premise here. If they are not ready, expecting, and probably wanting feedback good and/or bad, they have no business getting involved. I have no doubt that the vast majority of people here are truly sincere about the desire to learn and improve, maybe having a little fun along the way, and welcome all comments. If someone gives you flak, they're probably the type that just go around looking for excuses to stir up a hornet's nest.
...or maybe I'm crazy and I just have really thick skin :D heeheehee |
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05/10/2004 04:22:45 PM · #23 |
To write a good critique takes time, energy and care. I've tried to invest some of it in some photos on this site. In retrospect, and to judge by the respective response to my comments, I believe that these have been truly helpful to very few individuals. They have led to a wonderful and enriching exchange of ideas, impressions and debates on a number of photographic, existential or aesthetic concerns with a handful of people, who, for the most part, are excellent performers already, and this without any interference on my part.
While I have aimed at making comments appropiate for the photo I discuss, I also feel that the capture itself dictates whatever may be considered positive or negative by the reader. There is, for me, no negative criticism. There are bad and unbalanced critiques, and there are very good ones. The good ones consider the facts of the picture, the bad ones consider facts of the reviewer and/or assumptions about the photographer.
The best way to learn and to move a little closer to an ideal is to have one. It is probably better to feel the draught of a creative vacuum than, contently, amassing a huge number of mediocre photos in the hope that some of them will appeal to some viewers with a short-lived viewing habit. When such a vacuum is felt, a restlessness may set in, which is, in fact, an energy and a potential link between that which is and that which could be.
When, however, we can be moved by a picture, there is a potential transfer of energies from that picture to the viewer. Specific, generic and, above all, valuable information can be had from such a model image. In my opinion, these rare opportunities (rare, because transporting images are not exactly a dime a dozen) are easily missed in this environment, especially when we spend only two or three seconds examining per specimen.
There are some images on DPC (you'll find them here), I have looked at for a very long time (even during voting/commenting) and repeatedly. I can honestly say that I have studied them. When I have, I feel that I am, to a degree qualified to critique them as well.
I do, so often, receive comments on my own entries (or find similar ones associated with the images of others) which are, decidedly, not critiques. I often welcome these as much for their immediacy as for their emotive brevity. An good number of them though indicate little more than a voter's ignorance, discontent or preoccupation with concepts derived from outside of the picture at hand.
Given the sheer number of participants, entries and comments, I suppose, this is a tolerable evil.
I sometimes wish, however, we could culture a climate more conducive to the passion and store of some of the great photographs present here instead of having to sustain or abate personal sentiments restricted to the likes and dislikes of voters who appear to have more interest in what they are familiar with than in an enduring work.
I have no doubt though, that whatever view or side I take, my contribution will be toward one outcome or another.
Message edited by author 2004-05-10 18:54:57.
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05/10/2004 04:23:57 PM · #24 |
...let me just add, I don't know how mean or harsh people get, but in all fairness I have to admit that if I got a comment that was like -
"Oh my GGOD!!! You Sukkkk dude! That is the sorriest, lame-a** excuse for a photograph I have ever had the misfortune to see. I can't believe you had the gumption to even submit that atrocity. AAghh! Yaackkk! Excuse me while I throw up profusely. You make me want to throw out MY camera and start burning art. The world would be a better place if you were to die tommorrow! Someone, please, put me out of my misery!!!!"
...than I might be a little upset, but other than that, I just assume everbuddy means well :-) |
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05/10/2004 08:43:34 PM · #25 |
Following on from everybody else, 'Kylie' Every comment that I receive is constructive. It is better to receive some feed back...than a lot of 1-2-3- or 4 and no comment to tell me why?
To get a comment of... "very poor light, this is bad, try a reshoot...2" is better than an average vote = 2.19 and no reasons given. So make your comments, positive, negative...or even harsh.
Your vote is appreciated...but it is from your comments I learn)
Cheers to you all
Message edited by author 2004-05-10 20:44:33. |
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