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03/21/2009 01:12:53 AM · #26 |
This is a dead horse that has been driven into the ground many times. It won't change. Just live with the good, bad, and indifferent.
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03/21/2009 01:13:34 AM · #27 |
Arg. I promised to quit posting in these threads but sometimes I just cannot help myself....
I use the "Helpful" box to keep track of which comments I've read because my memory ain't what it used to be and it never was all that great. Although really, if I didn't do that, I might think they're all new and have to start from the beginning, and that would take awhile, which would prevent me from reading and responsing to forum threads, so there's a thought....
Anyway, my suggestion would be "This comment received" or something along those lines. And I agree that readng comments on photographs can benefit more than just the photog who submitted the photo. |
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03/21/2009 01:15:40 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by SDW:
And I maybe wrong here but your second paragraph sounds like your entertained by the comments and critiquing the comment, laughing when someone gets something wrong (such as the dodge when there was none) but without knowing your steps there are several techniques, PP or lighting, that could resemble each other.
When a voter comments the majority is are trying to tell you what they see (right or wrong) and the last thing they would like to hear is your getting entertainment out of there comment mistakes as they are trying to learn by commenting. |
Sure... I can go check them all as helpful. That would probably be the best thing to do since that seems to matter a lot to people who leave comments :) I'll check all the ones on my hidden gem as helpful and on all future challenge entries.
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03/21/2009 01:16:52 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I comment because writing my thoughts about someone else's image makes me a better photographer in the long run. I learn something that is useful to ME when I leave a comment. I could care less if the photographer thinks my thoughts are helpful or not. Most of my comments are not even designed to be helpful. I don't get critical in most of my comments these days. I just post my thoughts on what I see and why I like it. |
I totally agree with this part -- I've long held that one will learn more and become a "better photographer" from writing comments than from reading comments from others on one's own pictures.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
On the flip side of this issue, some photographers out there check every comment they get as helpful. Is that not just as 'bad' as checking none of them? |
I don't think it's quite "as bad" because:
a) it at least represents an acknowledgement that the comment has been read.
b) knowing how someone feels about the picture is always "helpful" to me -- I may not change the pictures I make, but I'll have a better idea whether my potential audience is two or two million people ... |
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03/21/2009 01:23:57 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by SDW:
And I maybe wrong here but your second paragraph sounds like your entertained by the comments and critiquing the comment, laughing when someone gets something wrong (such as the dodge when there was none) but without knowing your steps there are several techniques, PP or lighting, that could resemble each other.
When a voter comments the majority is are trying to tell you what they see (right or wrong) and the last thing they would like to hear is your getting entertainment out of there comment mistakes as they are trying to learn by commenting. |
Sure... I can go check them all as helpful. That would probably be the best thing to do since that seems to matter a lot to people who leave comments :) I'll check all the ones on my hidden gem as helpful and on all future challenge entries. |
Your still not getting the point....Please listen people.
If you do what you suggest you are expanding the problem. All of this is about TIME, TIME, TIME. If you feel comments shouldn't be checked helpful then don't check them. But Please for the sake of the ones that want comments and hope to learn from them let us know in some way not to waste our time on you photographs so will have time for those photographers that are looking for a comment that could help them lean something.
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03/21/2009 01:25:12 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Arg. I promised to quit posting in these threads but sometimes I just cannot help myself....
I use the "Helpful" box to keep track of which comments I've read because my memory ain't what it used to be and it never was all that great. Although really, if I didn't do that, I might think they're all new and have to start from the beginning, and that would take awhile, which would prevent me from reading and responsing to forum threads, so there's a thought....
Anyway, my suggestion would be "This comment received" or something along those lines. And I agree that readng comments on photographs can benefit more than just the photog who submitted the photo. |
Deb ... if your memory is like that (i.e. just like mine) then all you need is one comment from someone on each pic. Make sure you don't check it, and then you'll have a brand 'new' comment to read every day! It could keep you amused for years. It does me. |
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03/21/2009 01:31:26 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Your still not getting the point....Please listen people.
If you do what you suggest you are expanding the problem. All of this is about TIME, TIME, TIME. If you feel comments shouldn't be checked helpful then don't check them. But Please for the sake of the ones that want comments and hope to learn from them let us know in some way not to waste our time on you photographs so will have time for those photographers that are looking for a comment that could help them lean something. |
Yuh... I guess I'm lost. I thought you were suggesting that I should check the comments as helpful. I checked them as helpful so that the photographer would know I acknowledged and appreciated the comments. Since there is no way to let you know I don't want a comment, that will just have to do. I DO NOT check the box asking for an in-depth critique, so if you work from that list, you won't come across my photos.
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03/21/2009 01:40:14 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by SDW:
Your still not getting the point....Please listen people.
If you do what you suggest you are expanding the problem. All of this is about TIME, TIME, TIME. If you feel comments shouldn't be checked helpful then don't check them. But Please for the sake of the ones that want comments and hope to learn from them let us know in some way not to waste our time on you photographs so will have time for those photographers that are looking for a comment that could help them lean something. |
Yuh... I guess I'm lost. I thought you were suggesting that I should check the comments as helpful. I checked them as helpful so that the photographer would know I acknowledged and appreciated the comments. Since there is no way to let you know I don't want a comment, that will just have to do. I DO NOT check the box asking for an in-depth critique, so if you work from that list, you won't come across my photos. |
Just look at my OP.
I was suggesting a way that DPC could put a check box in the preference area so a photographer could click it letting people know he or she didn't want comments.
Time is the reason for this suggestion. Not because I want good helpful stats, if my comment is not helpful then don't check it. But atleast I know you were looking for comments to possible learn something, either about photography or the voter. At the same time I learn from commenting.
But since TIME is an issue when commenting, if DPC had a way that would not let me comment on a photographers photograph that didn't want comments then I would have time to comment on more of the photographs where the photographer wants comments.
Message edited by author 2009-03-21 01:44:08.
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03/21/2009 01:53:42 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Arg. I promised to quit posting in these threads but sometimes I just cannot help myself....
I use the "Helpful" box to keep track of which comments I've read because my memory ain't what it used to be and it never was all that great. Although really, if I didn't do that, I might think they're all new and have to start from the beginning, and that would take awhile, which would prevent me from reading and responsing to forum threads, so there's a thought....
Anyway, my suggestion would be "This comment received" or something along those lines. And I agree that readng comments on photographs can benefit more than just the photog who submitted the photo. |
I do the same thing! It's the best way to keep track of comments and to me they are helpful for tracking purposes not so much the content of the comment. I do like to see how people interpret photos, it gives me an insight into them.
When I comment I don't really care what the photographer thinks of my comment and I don't bother to check if they thought it was helpful or not, it is just my thought on a photo which could be totally different to what the photographer was thinking, who cares. |
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03/21/2009 03:02:17 AM · #35 |
I'm not missing the point. If people don't want comments that is their problem, not mine. It is part of the free for all that comments be made on any picture posted. Hey, but wait! Here's an idea: maybe there could be a box I could tick indicating that I don't want any votes!
I am well aware that commenting can take a lot of time and effort - it takes me ages most of the time, and even then I am not always happy with what I have written, but every now and then the process is its own reward. I suggest that you try to look at it that way, and learn to pace yourself, commenting only when the spirit moves you.
Implementing your suggestion would not only NOT solve your time and effort problem, it would create a rather strange stratification of dpc players. |
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03/21/2009 03:51:25 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I haven't been around here much lately, but it does look like the critique club is still here. Those photographers who check the 'in depth critique' box when they submit a photo are asking for a specific critique on their photos. If you join the critique club and focus your efforts on those photographs, your mission will be accomplished. You will have commented on a photograph where you know the photographer specifically asked for it.
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That's no guarantee your comment will be appreciated either. I was browsing someone's portfolio tonight and noticed his CC critique was one of his "unhelpful" comments... |
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03/21/2009 03:52:18 AM · #37 |
Thanks everyone for your input on this subject. I continue to stand by my opinion, why offer a comment to someone that does not care about my interpretation of their photograph, other than using it as a means of their entertainment. Voters comment for several reasons, first and foremost is to tell the photographer what they see in his or her work. And yes the comment maybe totally opposite of what the photographer see's but it give the photographer a good indication of how the voter viewed his or her work. It also helps the commenter grow as it makes them study the photograph longer than they did while voting.
I find myself feeling alone here about this issue. To me it's simple, if your not going to take the commenter seriously then why should he or she even bother to comment. Remember I am not talking about photographers that check some helpful and some not, I'm speaking of the ones that seem to never check a comment helpful - no matter who the commenter was. Maybe I have deceived myself over the last five years thinking comments play a big roll in learning photography from both sides. I guess when  langdon asked everyone to comment in the 1000th challenge is was all about stats. It seems that was the direction of thought.
But whatever that little  helpful box means it just don't seem that important to me anymore after hearing a few in this thread. I have enjoyed commenting when I could with hope that it helped someone other than myself but is see, in most cases, that was not the outcome.
In lite of the awakening I have been exposed to tonight I would rather take my time voting and not wasting any time commenting. Not that it really matters because I only have 1847 comments over the course of five years. I guess it fair to say, at this point, that my comments will not increase. I'm stopping here. However if I receive a comment from any of you I will treat your comment with respect and read, take your view point into consideration, and check helpful I find it to be so.
Scott
Message edited by author 2009-03-21 03:59:45.
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03/21/2009 04:34:39 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Deb ... if your memory is like that (i.e. just like mine) then all you need is one comment from someone on each pic. Make sure you don't check it, and then you'll have a brand 'new' comment to read every day! It could keep you amused for years. It does me. |
LOL! Maybe I'll randomly uncheck comments as Helpful and wait a week, then go back to see what they were. Kinda like novels. I can re-read them and enjoy them all over again because I don't remember the details. 'Tis fun!
And Scott, I like your suggestion. There are a handful of folks who really don't care about the comments. I'd probably comment on them anyway. I do know some people just don't know how to check to see if they have new comments on shots that have been in their porfolio*, and others that do read them but for whatever reason - personal preference, language perhaps - don't check them as "Helpful". Maybe it's a personal protest against determining "helpfulness". I've had several CC comments go unchecked - I never know if it's because they are not helpful or the person never did read it. I've learned not to worry about it if the comment goes unchecked. If it's someone who didn't want comments in the first place - eh - fine. Perhaps the people reading the comments will see something in the picture they'd missed that they'll note the next time they comment on someone else's photo. It's all good.
* To check for comments you haven't read, if you mark all comments as "Helpful" to keep track of them, go to your profile page, to comments received, click on the number, then when you get the next screen, in the bottom drop-down box, click on Not Marked As Helpful. If you have any you missed, they'll show up. |
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03/21/2009 05:02:50 AM · #39 |
I like this idea. I agree that this would increase the chance of comments to those who are actually interested in them.
I have long rallied for a box that says something like:
The photographer is interested in reading in depth comments about this picture.
or
The photographer is not interested in reading in depth comments about this picture.
The site could easily make the box 'either/or' for each image without making any significant inconvenience when submitting pics.
I have also long rallied for a box that says:
The photographer has read the comment.
and/or
The photographer enjoyed this comment.
I usually use the helpful box to track comments, which makes it difficult to convey honestly whether the comment was actually helpful or not.
I find that the best way is to do them in bunches and take action for each comment right up until I _do_ find something helpful and I can use that as my tracker.
I think this is an issue worthy of consideration by the site.
ETA:
Originally posted by ShutterHack:
This is a dead horse that has been driven into the ground many times. It won't change. Just live with the good, bad, and indifferent. |
oh and shutterhack, thanks for your recent comment 'nice shot'. Can't say that I found it the least bit helpful, but i did read it.
On the other hand, the 'dead horse' comment in this case is dumb because: #1 we just had a major milestone challenge where lots of people put a huge amount of effort into making a huge number of comments and #2 SDW (and others) feel that the site could be improved in a specific way that has not been tried and would require a relatively small amount of effort to try.
Just because someone else has said it before and the idea didn't fly does NOT mean that the idea no longer holds any merit for discussion.
PS. This should be in site suggestions.
Message edited by author 2009-03-21 07:35:30. |
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03/21/2009 05:37:59 AM · #40 |
| Personally I think we should have no tick box at all. Problem solved. |
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03/21/2009 07:08:22 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by SDW:
I don’t know about the other voters that commented, but one thing that piss me off more than most on this site is when I see a photograph with several comments and not a single one checked as helpful by the photographer when clearly some or all of the comments are. And after further investigation seeing a pattern that the photographer doesn't check any of his or her comments received a helpful making the voter fell they have wasted their time.
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if i spent time on writing a comment on any photo and if photographer did not check my comment helpful (and he/she has checked others) then i made it a point that i had never commented on their photo again. Of course i avoided commenting during voting so that i do not waste my time with such *****s.
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03/21/2009 07:08:49 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by SDW:
[quote=tnun] I talking about the photographer that NEVER checks ANY comments helpful. |
I have found for some of these, English is a
second, or non-existent language. |
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03/21/2009 07:13:02 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
Just because someone else has said it before and the idea didn't fly does NOT mean that the idea no longer holds any merit for discussion. |
Quite right. But this subject has been addressed
in full, at least twice since I joined DPC. (not counting this time) And if memory serves me right it seems to be something that the owners of the site have no interest in changing. So some think the horse is dead. In any event the OP probably should start a ticket to Langdon and see if he might be interested now. |
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03/21/2009 08:26:33 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by SDW:
I don’t know about the other voters that commented, but one thing that piss me off more than most on this site is when I see a photograph with several comments and not a single one checked as helpful by the photographer when clearly some or all of the comments are. And after further investigation seeing a pattern that the photographer doesn't check any of his or her comments received a helpful making the voter fell they have wasted their time. |
Scott, I like you, and generally respect you, not to menmtion appreciate the massive amount of work you do for the people at this site, BUT......
You cannot project your standards onto others and not get squawked at.
No one is under any obligation to any commenter for any reason, period.
Not to mention that just because in YOUR opinion the comment is helpful doesn't mean the photographer agrees.
There are many times when comments are NOT wanted, yet there is no option for that.
I can't tell you how often I've gotten comments on how to "Fix" a problemm for an intentional technique I've used.
How is that helpful on any level?
Not to mention when people leave comments that are just plain wrong.
You have to accept that you may end up leaving a comment on an image that is just not welcome.
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03/21/2009 08:29:56 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I comment because writing my thoughts about someone else's image makes me a better photographer in the long run. I learn something that is useful to ME when I leave a comment. I could care less if the photographer thinks my thoughts are helpful or not. Most of my comments are not even designed to be helpful. I don't get critical in most of my comments these days. I just post my thoughts on what I see and why I like it. |
I totally agree with this part -- I've long held that one will learn more and become a "better photographer" from writing comments than from reading comments from others on one's own pictures.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
On the flip side of this issue, some photographers out there check every comment they get as helpful. Is that not just as 'bad' as checking none of them? |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I don't think it's quite "as bad" because:
a) it at least represents an acknowledgement that the comment has been read.
b) knowing how someone feels about the picture is always "helpful" to me -- I may not change the pictures I make, but I'll have a better idea whether my potential audience is two or two million people ... |
I do check comments as helpful, except the basically caustic and/or unpleasant ones, more as a concession to the effort than as to its actual merit.
I *DO* read every comment, and I appreciate it when someone takes the time to do so; I'm always an avid participant in the "I got great comments" thread, but I don't demand or expect comments.
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03/21/2009 08:44:02 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Thanks everyone for your input on this subject. I continue to stand by my opinion, why offer a comment to someone that does not care about my interpretation of their photograph, other than using it as a means of their entertainment. Voters comment for several reasons, first and foremost is to tell the photographer what they see in his or her work. And yes the comment maybe totally opposite of what the photographer see's but it give the photographer a good indication of how the voter viewed his or her work. It also helps the commenter grow as it makes them study the photograph longer than they did while voting. |
So it serves a twofold purpose, which means that someone should always get something from it without needing validation from the other, correct?
Originally posted by SDW:
I find myself feeling alone here about this issue. To me it's simple, if your not going to take the commenter seriously then why should he or she even bother to comment. Remember I am not talking about photographers that check some helpful and some not, I'm speaking of the ones that seem to never check a comment helpful - no matter who the commenter was. Maybe I have deceived myself over the last five years thinking comments play a big roll in learning photography from both sides. I guess when langdon asked everyone to comment in the 1000th challenge is was all about stats. It seems that was the direction of thought. |
I think that's kind of an ugly little comment there.......I believe that most people were delighted with the way the commenting went and I highly doubt that it was a statistically motivated exercise.
Originally posted by SDW:
But whatever that little helpful box means it just don't seem that important to me anymore after hearing a few in this thread. I have enjoyed commenting when I could with hope that it helped someone other than myself but is see, in most cases, that was not the outcome. |
Scott, why do you need validatrion from someone who may not have necessarily agreed with, wanted, or needed your comment?
Let me give you an example......on what level would  jjbeguin,  Joey Lawrence,  IreneM, librodo, goodman, or Judi need to check a comment from me as helpful?
I doubt VERY seriously that I'm going to shed any light on their skills, abilities, or perceptions as a photographer.....so how would my comment be validated as helpful other than them merely being polite?
Originally posted by SDW:
In lite of the awakening I have been exposed to tonight I would rather take my time voting and not wasting any time commenting. Not that it really matters because I only have 1847 comments over the course of five years. I guess it fair to say, at this point, that my comments will not increase. I'm stopping here. However if I receive a comment from any of you I will treat your comment with respect and read, take your view point into consideration, and check helpful I find it to be so. |
So you're mad and going to punish the people that DO appreciate your commenting because the others won't play it your way?
NOW who's not being helpful?????.......8>)
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03/21/2009 08:49:56 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
There are many times when comments are NOT wanted, yet there is no option for that.
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I believe that this is the suggestion at the core of this issue is it not?
I think SDW is actually suggesting that there SHOULD be an option for saying that you don't want comments. |
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03/21/2009 08:54:47 AM · #48 |
Someone had an interesting point--think it through seriously for a second...
why not eliminate the check box?
1. Does it change the way you're commenting if some people don't mark the comment as helpful? It hasn't for me. I still blunder my way through suggestions, because I think that I have an idea as to how to make it better.
2. Are you commenting because you're wanting accolades from the receiver? The majority of people are not, but it still can be disappointing when you put a lot of work into something and don't get a response.
Also, it's not a straightforward addition, because they would have to change the database, change the form, and probably would want to set it so the comment box doesn't show for the ones that don't want comments. I assume they're very busy, because I requested a simple link be added to the rules page to help cut down on 1/3 of all dqs (not having the original), but that hasn't happened.
Anyway, I understand and agree with SDW. But since I doubt that something will happen, I have to be happy with the fact that over half my comments were considered helpful. Knowing how much I appreciate when someone gives some helpful criticism, I'll take the chance and continue to comment.
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03/21/2009 08:56:49 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
There are many times when comments are NOT wanted, yet there is no option for that.
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Originally posted by eschelar:
I believe that this is the suggestion at the core of this issue is it not?
I think SDW is actually suggesting that there SHOULD be an option for saying that you don't want comments. |
Yes, but the issue is that just because we want something doesn't mean we get it.
And to decide to punish others for it doesn't seem rerasonable.
It seems that it would be more sensible just to acknowledge that some won't ever check cxomments as helpful and move on.....and to not be so presumptuous to assume that just because you meant a comment to be helpful that it was.
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03/21/2009 09:02:06 AM · #50 |
I think it's also important to understand how people view comments.
For the most part, I'm a lot more interested in the reaction that you have to my image.
I really am not necessarily interested in what you think I should do to fix it.
Tell me that for your tastes it's too dark.....don't tell me I need to dodge it some.
I realize that there are others here that want exactly that kind of info......so what are you supposed to do?
You cannot possibly know when you're commenting whether or not you're going to hit the mark, and I for one like it that I cannot tell......as someone else said, I comment more BECAUSE the image evokes a response/reaction from me.....and I comment according to that as opposed to telling someone how they could/should improve their image.
As I said, I've received comments on how to fix an intentional technique, so I'm very cognizant of how off a helpfully intended comment can be.
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helpful box means it just don't seem that important to me anymore after hearing a few in this thread. I have enjoyed commenting when I could with hope that it helped someone other than myself but is see, in most cases, that was not the outcome.
