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03/18/2009 08:03:58 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
Originally posted by David Ey:
Did this Adams guy do all his own post processing? |
They just had dodge and burn back in his day, didn't they? |
N +/- film developing, selenium, paper flashing, toning, bleaching, dodge, burn, spotting, film choices, paper choices, developer choices... I could go on and on (and usually do! don't get me started! :-) |
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03/18/2009 08:07:57 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
You must save a FORTUNE on the non-necessary memory cards :-)))))) |
:-))))
Memory cards are mere transporters. The image already starts to breathe just as the shutter is released. Everything beyond the shutter release is superficial mundane stuff to carry the image around, dress it up, have it looked at.. its not photography - IMO.
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03/18/2009 08:16:03 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
You must save a FORTUNE on the non-necessary memory cards :-)))))) |
:-))))
Memory cards are mere transporters. The image already starts to breathe just as the shutter is released. Everything beyond the shutter release is superficial mundane stuff to carry the image around, dress it up, have it looked at.. its not photography - IMO. |
You should tell Mr. Adams that all that stuff he did in the darkroom wasn't photography... |
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03/18/2009 08:18:52 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by Dudski:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
While I'm personally underwhelmed by yet another showcase of what I would consider to be rather plain and lifeless landscapes on the front page... |
I'll try not to take offense to that... I think owning the blue might help me with that though ;)
If you have any suggestions on how to add some 'life' into the shot, comments are welcome. |
I can offer suggestions on how to add some life for ME into the shot, but you're not shooting for me now, are you? :D |
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03/18/2009 08:19:12 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
You must save a FORTUNE on the non-necessary memory cards :-)))))) |
:-))))
Memory cards are mere transporters. The image already starts to breathe just as the shutter is released. Everything beyond the shutter release is superficial mundane stuff to carry the image around, dress it up, have it looked at.. its not photography - IMO. |
You should tell Mr. Adams that all that stuff he did in the darkroom wasn't photography... |
I am referring to digital photography. Hence the references to memory cards, RAW image processing etc. With film, you would have to process the negatives to get a meaningful positive image to appreciate the captured scene. With digital cameras, the RAW image data is analogous to the film-negative, although closer to a form that a human can appreciate right away. Everything done to this RAW image to get a W-balanced, contrast adjusted, hue/saturation tuned etc. final image, is still processing... not photography. The core of digital photography, the art and science of recording a picture on a sensitive medium (sensor) with light, is already done when the first RAW impression is captured off the sensor.
One may argue that creating a picture on the retina of a human eye (photo sensitive surface) is photography too. Well in that case, the act of me moving anything that front of a functioning human eye in presence of light is photography. Isnt it?
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 20:27:23. |
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03/18/2009 08:19:52 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Memory cards are mere transporters. The image already starts to breathe just as the shutter is released. Everything beyond the shutter release is superficial mundane stuff to carry the image around, dress it up, have it looked at.. its not photography - IMO. |
The camera is a mere transporter. The image only existed as a real scene, and everything beyond merely observing that existence is an attempt to preserve the image, carry it around, dress it up, have it looked at... it is the very essence of photography. With any digital camera, whether you process the RAW image on a computer or in the camera (settings the camera applies internally to the captured RAW data), the shutter release itself results in no usable photograph. If that were the end of photography, there would be nothing to look at.
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 20:23:39. |
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03/18/2009 08:23:08 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
You must save a FORTUNE on the non-necessary memory cards :-)))))) |
:-))))
Memory cards are mere transporters. The image already starts to breathe just as the shutter is released. Everything beyond the shutter release is superficial mundane stuff to carry the image around, dress it up, have it looked at.. its not photography - IMO. |
You should tell Mr. Adams that all that stuff he did in the darkroom wasn't photography... |
I am referring to digital photography. Hence the references to memory cards, RAW image processing etc. |
So?
Those things are simply the modern equivalent to the darkroom. |
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03/18/2009 08:27:37 PM · #133 |
Just out of curiosity...
Before digital cameras, did you sit around a table showing your negatives or prints? To equate this to the digital world, do you share a bunch of ones and zeros or do you share something more?
In both cases, photography continues long after the shutter is released. You merely alter the form of the original negative or binary code to something that is understood by the brain.
Alterations of the emulsion or bit data are part of the art form. The image isn't made until the emulsion or bit data are processed.
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
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03/18/2009 08:28:26 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
You must save a FORTUNE on the non-necessary memory cards :-)))))) |
:-))))
Memory cards are mere transporters. The image already starts to breathe just as the shutter is released. Everything beyond the shutter release is superficial mundane stuff to carry the image around, dress it up, have it looked at.. its not photography - IMO. |
You should tell Mr. Adams that all that stuff he did in the darkroom wasn't photography... |
I am referring to digital photography. Hence the references to memory cards, RAW image processing etc. |
So?
Those things are simply the modern equivalent to the darkroom. |
I am referring to digital photography. Hence the references to memory cards, RAW image processing etc. With film, you would have to process the negatives to get a meaningful positive image to appreciate the captured scene. With digital cameras, the RAW image data is analogous to the film-negative, although closer to a form that a human can appreciate right away. Everything done to this RAW image to get a W-balanced, contrast adjusted, hue/saturation tuned etc. final image, is still processing... not photography. The core of digital photography, the art and science of recording a picture on a sensitive medium (sensor) with light, is already done when the first RAW impression is captured off the sensor.
One may argue that creating a picture on the retina of a human eye (photo sensitive surface) is photography too. Well in that case, the act of me moving anything that front of a functioning human eye in presence of light is photography. Isnt it?
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03/18/2009 08:30:42 PM · #135 |
n/m
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 20:30:58.
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03/18/2009 08:35:50 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by Prash:
One may argue that creating a picture on the retina of a human eye (photo sensitive surface) is photography too. Well in that case, the act of me moving anything that front of a functioning human eye in presence of light is photography. Isnt it? |
I can only say that you completely misunderstand my earlier post. Perhaps I wrote it poorly. |
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03/18/2009 08:36:52 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
n/m |
I'm with ya. |
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03/18/2009 08:38:25 PM · #138 |
What I am saying is this: the image has already been captured a moment from when the shutter is released: be it in a photo-checmically reactive medium, or in a memory chip off a sensor. Everything else is just a means of presenting it in human readable form. And I call that processing.
And when you say photography continues long after shutter is released to 'alter' the original negative or binary code, all that is 'processing'. You are only enhancing/touching up on the original content.. you are not adding anything that wasnt in the scene (generally). The original scene is already preserved by then in the 'original' negative or the 'original' raw binary data as you say. And to me, photography ends where that 'original' data is generated.
Again, you dont have to agree with this.
Originally posted by PGerst:
Just out of curiosity...
Before digital cameras, did you sit around a table showing your negatives or prints? To equate this to the digital world, do you share a bunch of ones and zeros or do you share something more?
In both cases, photography continues long after the shutter is released. You merely alter the form of the original negative or binary code to something that is understood by the brain.
Alterations of the emulsion or bit data are part of the art form. The image isn't made until the emulsion or bit data are processed.
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
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03/18/2009 08:42:34 PM · #139 |
mouse hovers over "set thread to ignore"....
place your labels wherever you wish, call it "phnorking" if you like. Divide it into two or two-thousand separate steps, protest the definitions as you will. You are still following the same basic steps from start to finish as anyone else....
and if you are pressing the shutter release having seen, composed the image, selected the lens, etc, without having already considered the subsequent steps on some level (which does directly influence the pre-shutter release moment) then maybe you should try that, too.... :-)
Peace.
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 20:45:07. |
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03/18/2009 08:43:50 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
mouse hovers over "set thread to ignore"....
place your labels wherever you wish, call it "phnorking" if you like. Divide it into two or two-thousand separate steps, protest the definitions as you will. You are still following the same basic steps from start to finish as anyone else.... |
I am SO calling it 'phnorking' from now on Chopper!!! |
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03/18/2009 08:44:09 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
mouse hovers over "set thread to ignore"....
place your labels wherever you wish, call it "phnorking" if you like. Divide it into two or two-thousand separate steps, protest the definitions as you will. You are still following the same basic steps from start to finish as anyone else.... |
Yes. Same steps. But different names. Why ignore? Cant two humans co-exist with differing opinions? :-)
ETA: I am not protesting any definition. In fact I feel quite the poosite. I am merely placing my understanding of the process.
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 20:46:56. |
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03/18/2009 08:49:25 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
mouse hovers over "set thread to ignore"....
place your labels wherever you wish, call it "phnorking" if you like. Divide it into two or two-thousand separate steps, protest the definitions as you will. You are still following the same basic steps from start to finish as anyone else.... |
Yes. Same steps. But different names. Why ignore? Cant two humans co-exist with differing opinions? :-) |
absolutely we can. Hence my earlier comment:
"Placing arbitrary boundaries anywhere in between may assist with an individual's labeling and organization of the overall path into manageable parcels, but does not alter the Start to Finish in the greater scheme."
quibbling over arbitrary labels has no value. additional quibbling is ignorable :-)
Peace and Good Processing to you, sir. |
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03/18/2009 08:51:45 PM · #143 |
TAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH DAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH\\
don't mind me |
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03/18/2009 08:52:12 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
mouse hovers over "set thread to ignore"....
place your labels wherever you wish, call it "phnorking" if you like. Divide it into two or two-thousand separate steps, protest the definitions as you will. You are still following the same basic steps from start to finish as anyone else.... |
I am SO calling it 'phnorking' from now on Chopper!!! |
just annunciate carefully when telling people you are a phnorkographer... :-)
else you will get stern looks, or unusual applications, there, Chopper! |
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03/18/2009 09:13:35 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Did this Adams guy do all his own post processing? |
I have a book called The Print by Ansel Adams, and yes, it's a whole book on post-processing ... he was a constant experimenter and dedicated (and organized) record-keeper. |
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03/18/2009 09:17:17 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by Prash:
... In fact I feel quite the poosite. |
Don't be so hard on yourself. You are not a poosite. |
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03/18/2009 09:40:58 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by Prash:
What I am saying is this: the image has already been captured a moment from when the shutter is released: be it in a photo-checmically reactive medium, or in a memory chip off a sensor. Everything else is just a means of presenting it in human readable form. And I call that processing.
And when you say photography continues long after shutter is released to 'alter' the original negative or binary code, all that is 'processing'. You are only enhancing/touching up on the original content.. you are not adding anything that wasnt in the scene (generally). The original scene is already preserved by then in the 'original' negative or the 'original' raw binary data as you say. And to me, photography ends where that 'original' data is generated.
Again, you dont have to agree with this.
Originally posted by PGerst:
Just out of curiosity...
Before digital cameras, did you sit around a table showing your negatives or prints? To equate this to the digital world, do you share a bunch of ones and zeros or do you share something more?
In both cases, photography continues long after the shutter is released. You merely alter the form of the original negative or binary code to something that is understood by the brain.
Alterations of the emulsion or bit data are part of the art form. The image isn't made until the emulsion or bit data are processed.
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
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Deny 150+ years of photo history if you want. |
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03/18/2009 10:05:08 PM · #148 |
When I first joined, I used to enjoy receiving my DPC updates and new challenges because I felt that I could relate to them. In the many years since then, I have probably spent thousands of hours on Photoshop, learning and tweaking and enhancing my little heart out. What I have found though, is that now when I receive my challenges, I find the subject much less personally interesting because a great number of the submissions are so greatly over enhanced... looking at any picture, you can tell how much saturation has been pumped into it, the contrast, the lighting, colour curves, whatever.
In this 1,000th DPC competition, I was so hoping for some amazing portraiture, and found it very much lacking with the emphasis seemingly on landscapes. I am curious... will there ever be a competition for people who simply take a good picture, in camera, and submit it wholly unedited except for perhaps some cropping? |
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03/18/2009 10:07:24 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
How did you manage to find such a grey landscape with such colourful leaves? Awesome find!
:-P |
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03/18/2009 10:07:33 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by VictoriaSecretGarden:
When I first joined, I used to enjoy receiving my DPC updates and new challenges because I felt that I could relate to them. In the many years since then, I have probably spent thousands of hours on Photoshop, learning and tweaking and enhancing my little heart out. What I have found though, is that now when I receive my challenges, I find the subject much less personally interesting because a great number of the submissions are so greatly over enhanced... looking at any picture, you can tell how much saturation has been pumped into it, the contrast, the lighting, colour curves, whatever.
In this 1,000th DPC competition, I was so hoping for some amazing portraiture, and found it very much lacking with the emphasis seemingly on landscapes. I am curious... will there ever be a competition for people who simply take a good picture, in camera, and submit it wholly unedited except for perhaps some cropping? |
We have had these! See Minimal Editing Rules
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