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03/18/2009 06:07:55 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm suprised because the landscapes are so incredibly common and those that won aren't even the best ones I've seen. In general and ona personal note I find them pretty dull at this point. Whereas that Camel/Taj images is not only world class but original. I've never seen that shot before and that usually counts for a lot...even here.
PLUS...it's Third-World-A-Licious!!!
Third World RULZZZ. |
I don't want to rain on the originality parade, but google images turns up about 85 thousand hits for Taj Mahal and camel - and from a quick look, most of them are wading. It is a cool shot all the same. |
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03/18/2009 06:15:27 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I betcha Monet put up with a lot of this crap. Van Gogh too... ;) |
Naa. They had no where near the critics DPC has. Back then the artists were the experts not the admirers/on-lookers
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urm, not really. You should look into the Salon des refuses as a good example. |
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03/18/2009 06:29:20 PM · #103 |
I said it before, and I just read it in this thread again, that making use of the number of favorites an image received will kind of balance the act between serious critics and hasty lemme-vote-before-9-as-I-dont-wanna-miss-that-show voters.
Weigh the votes that come with a favorite more than those that dont, and see how it affects the rankings. If someone took the time to understand/appreciate an image, their vote deserves more weighage IMO.
FWIW: I have not been participating in main stream challenges exactly to avoid arguments like the ones in this thread. If one doesnt think like the 'masses', there is no point trying again and hoping for a favorable outcome. One would rather take part in side challenges and improve the skills that he/she likes rather than working on what appeals to the crowds.
Some people excel in what most people like, though. Dont know if it is because of their profession, or personality type. But we are inherently different - each one of us. It is unfair to expect that everyone likes everyone else's work.
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 18:34:57. |
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03/18/2009 06:33:49 PM · #104 |
| I don't care for any of the ribbon winners in this challenge (nor indeed in most challenges), but that's not because they are landscapes, or over-processed, or macros, or splashes, or colored paper, or elaborately staged tableau, or any of the other perennial favorites. It's because I am simply not interested in them. With the sole exception of purely documentary photography, I'm interested only in photographs that illuminate the thoughts of the photographer. If they don't do that, I am not interested; they are of no consequence. And it follows with remorseless inevitability that if a photograph is inconsequential at that fundamental level, then any other qualities it possesses (technical perfection, degree of difficulty, etc) are irrelevant. |
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03/18/2009 06:46:54 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Fetor:
4. An extraordinary amount of work that went into a shot  and  |
I'm puzzled as to why you included those two. Nothing wrong with them but they ARE heavily processed.
Originally posted by Fetor:
My point is more of a question....What have we become? A group of people that vote based on editing of stagnant objects? Or should we vote based on effort, subject matter, hard work, and uniqueness in a challenge like this?
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I crossed out the things that as a viewer don't interest me. Besides, I don't see how you can realistically judge the amount of work someone puts into an image or the level of difficulty just by looking at it. Why would you even want to? According to the DPC rules as a photographer all you need to do is click the shutter or be the person responsible for composing the scene for it to be a valid entry out of the camera so who knows how much work the photographer actually put in? He or she may not have even come up with the concept let alone the lighting or any of the artistic work involved. How do I know the photographer created the paper art that was captured? Shouldn't the ones who creates it themselves be rewarded more points than those who only photographed someone else's artwork? How do I know that mountain view captured from a long hike, a short drive or a fly over? Shouldn't that factor in? How do I do that? And what about editing? Doesn't that take effort as well? But even there how would I be able to determine who created their effects and who simply ran a filter/action they downloaded? This is why I don't care to measure effort, hard work or level of difficulty and just let the end result speak for itself. |
To me personally, if I can tell a person went through a lot of effort to get somewhere to take a photo they deserve more points. A persons personal effort to get a photo means more then the editing process, which is equally important dont get me wrong. Im gonna use Joey Lawrence as an example. His photos have almost always been well recieved for a reason, and one of them is effort. He puts a lot of work in getting somewhere to take his photos now. I will always believe that if someone has put so much money, time, and effort into capturing 1 photo then that paired with technical perfection is what makes it better then say a studio portrait. And as for the photos above, I take into consideration the work the makeup artist had to do as well. Its not just the photographer I judge sometimes. Its the whole concept of the photo and how well everyone executed their role.
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03/18/2009 06:50:32 PM · #106 |
| I was hoping to atleast make it in the bottom 30 percent, my comments were good but with all the shotsWHATEVER.just par for the course.........it is one of my favorite pics though and the comments I got were very constructive. |
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03/18/2009 06:52:18 PM · #107 |
| and in the end, a picture is subjective to the person lookin at it and what they feel.....way too many people out there to take anything personal.....love of capturing and learning means whatever others feel but how you feel about your own image.......that is what art is all about...........how many artists don't get recognized tell they are dead? |
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03/18/2009 06:56:39 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Clap, clap!
R. |
They have medicine for this I hear!! ;-) |
A light switch too! |
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03/18/2009 07:01:41 PM · #109 |
| The photographer today is measured by his frame filling abilities and his editing ability. Thats just how it is, the original shot is your canvas, and in the digital world, photo editing is another art in itself... |
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03/18/2009 07:03:12 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
While landscape photos may have a tough time in the forums, clearly they are having no problem in the challenges. This challenge erased my guilt about voting them low. |
Lol. I doubt you have much guilt about anything you do here. |
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03/18/2009 07:13:02 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm suprised because the landscapes are so incredibly common and those that won aren't even the best ones I've seen. In general and ona personal note I find them pretty dull at this point. Whereas that Camel/Taj images is not only world class but original. I've never seen that shot before and that usually counts for a lot...even here.
PLUS...it's Third-World-A-Licious!!!
Third World RULZZZ. |
o i have seen camel taj mahal shot million times. But thats not the great thing about it, the great thing is it is shot from behind of tajmahal. Most of the pictures you see are from front of tajmahal.
i tried twice and failed due to the reason that nobody other than me in my family is interested in going backside of taj. |
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03/18/2009 07:17:49 PM · #112 |
Sadly pc issues have kept me offline since last Friday night and due to my poor backup regime this year have lost all of my 2009 images but am digressing.
I think my submission should have scored higher than it did!
Am guessing 1,100 or so of us feel the same however, I submitted my image to the massive and they voted accordingly so I have no room for complaint (and not a single 1 vote which is new for me).
So...
I think my image is better than many that scored higher than I did
I also prefer many images that scored lower than mine did
I think the voters suck
I also think that the average vote from 500+ peeps can't be wrong
And, for those that thought 'stuffed' this little kitty was/is most definately alive
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03/18/2009 07:26:15 PM · #113 |
I agree... some pics were edited a touch to much for me also. like a few of the HDR's... I still tried to vote fair though... but MAN were there trolls prowling in this competition... hahaha
I still LOVED the idea and the competition... I mean screw the trolls there are some wicked gems hiding in the challenge...
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03/18/2009 07:28:22 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by yanko:
Robert pretty much covered it. I was just curious as to what it is exactly, that Steve believes moves you away from photography. I suspected it had something to do with truth telling hence the question posed. I agree all photographs are fabrications to some extend at least when capturing the world around us. However, I view photography like every other art form, it's a means of introspection and self expression. There is of course the commercial side of things but that isn't art. |
Ahhh...very cool. So, we have pre-production, production and post-production. Primarily but not in a hardcore way I consider Photography the "production" phase. All the elements combined make an image, of course but when I talk about photography, starting with the light (set-up or natural) that taking of the image and some minor pp, that's generally where I'm focused. Now, the boundaries can be pushed far in every direction but in terms of photography I'm judging the center. There are a million exceptions and so many images call for their own due and respect but that's hard to address.
There are brilliant images that spread far and wide with plenty of pre-p and PP but when I say "the photography is brilliant" I'm not talking about the pre-production or the post production. Of course they play a role but I'm looking at the production of the image...the in-camera choices, crop and lighting etc.
What I fear or tend to criticize is when people place a higher or blind premium on the pre-production when the photography itself is very average or even bad. On the other end when the PP is the major star of a luke warm or dull image that usually get's riled.
Again, they ALL play a role and go hand in hand but you can also look at them separately. |
Interesting. I tend to look at all three of those stages as one. I don't compartmentalize. Well I guess I do but they are different. There's what happens in the mind (ex. studying the subject, previsualization, brainstorming, etc) and the choices that are born from it (i.e. lighting, composition, processing, etc). I don't place more value on choices made before, during or after the click of the shutter. The only thing that is important to me is whether or not the choice was a good one or not, and the results that stem from it. I like this way of looking at it because it isn't technology dependent nor should it be because technology isn't what is giving birth to the work, IMO.
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03/18/2009 07:35:37 PM · #115 |
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
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03/18/2009 07:37:59 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. Sure we can argue to the end of this world that RAW processing is also photography, but I would call that 'processing' (WB/exposure adjustment/brightness/contrast/crop/hue/saturation).
Everything beyond that is 'post processing'. Not true photography.
And no you dont have to agree with me.
And yes I have a right to this opinion. |
Gotcha. Ansel Adams wasn't *really* a photographer. And Jerry Uelsmann certainly isn't. I'll stop there.
R.
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03/18/2009 07:40:02 PM · #117 |
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03/18/2009 07:43:18 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by Fetor:
To me personally, if I can tell a person went through a lot of effort to get somewhere to take a photo they deserve more points. A persons personal effort to get a photo means more then the editing process, which is equally important dont get me wrong. Im gonna use Joey Lawrence as an example. His photos have almost always been well recieved for a reason, and one of them is effort. He puts a lot of work in getting somewhere to take his photos now. I will always believe that if someone has put so much money, time, and effort into capturing 1 photo then that paired with technical perfection is what makes it better then say a studio portrait. And as for the photos above, I take into consideration the work the makeup artist had to do as well. Its not just the photographer I judge sometimes. Its the whole concept of the photo and how well everyone executed their role. |
Awarding points for hard work is noble but I don't see how you can judge that as a voter when you A) don't know who shot it, B) have no information shared about the shoot in particular and C) how much work the photographer put in vs the amount of help he or she received. Now maybe if you knew who took the photo ahead of time and knew it was Joey, Larus, De Sousa, etc then you might be able to make some assumptions you can't otherwise know by just looking at the photo. That was my point.
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03/18/2009 07:43:46 PM · #119 |
| Did this Adams guy do all his own post processing? |
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03/18/2009 07:44:57 PM · #120 |
| What everyone should try to remember is that we are rating what we like and it does not really matter why a picture scores the way it does. The blue ribbon was earned because it scored the highest average score period. All this talk about pre and post processing sounds like people being upset for not placing well. if you are going to enter a contest judged by hundreds of people why complain about your result? |
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03/18/2009 07:45:56 PM · #121 |
To me, photography starts with the image striking the First Light Sensitive Surface, the Photographer's Retina, and ends when the result strikes the Final Light Sensitive Surface, the Viewer's Retina.
Everything in between (film, darkroom, silver gelatin print, sensor, memory card, computer screen, printer, web page) is processing with whichever available tools suit the intent and serve the Vision.
Placing arbitrary boundaries anywhere in between may assist with an individual's labeling and organization of the overall path into manageable parcels, but does not alter the Start to Finish in the greater scheme.
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 20:37:16. |
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03/18/2009 07:50:04 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by Prash:
To me, 'photo''graphy' ends when the shutter is released. The image is already made by that time. |
You must save a FORTUNE on the non-necessary memory cards :-))))))
Message edited by author 2009-03-18 20:04:39. |
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03/18/2009 07:50:25 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by hjl:
What everyone should try to remember is that we are rating what we like and it does not really matter why a picture scores the way it does. The blue ribbon was earned because it scored the highest average score period. All this talk about pre and post processing sounds like people being upset for not placing well. if you are going to enter a contest judged by hundreds of people why complain about your result? |
FYI: I didnt not enter this challenge. My post was a general comment. Not a complaint. |
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03/18/2009 07:52:23 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by hjl:
What everyone should try to remember is that we are rating what we like and it does not really matter why a picture scores the way it does. The blue ribbon was earned because it scored the highest average score period. All this talk about pre and post processing sounds like people being upset for not placing well. if you are going to enter a contest judged by hundreds of people why complain about your result? |
FYI: I dint not enter this challenge. My post was a general comment. Not a complaint. |
I understand that and i appreciate that. My comment is more towards the hundreds of comments before you especially the first one |
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03/18/2009 07:54:22 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Did this Adams guy do all his own post processing? |
They just had dodge and burn back in his day, didn't they? |
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