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06/23/2002 11:59:00 PM · #1 |
It seems like the weekly "Dumping of the Bad Scores" didn't happen this week...or maybe I just didn't notice it. Oh well, I guess this will be my very lowest score ever. Serves me right for submitting something that I took at 11:48 pm Sunday night!
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06/24/2002 12:07:58 AM · #2 |
It didn't happen... and I'm pretty ticked. With the vote dump I stood to have my highest score ever, I would have liked to be able to compare apples to apples.
-Terry
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06/24/2002 12:37:20 AM · #3 |
| Well, I loved both your photos, and gave Crystal Shadows 10, so who cares? :P |
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06/24/2002 01:28:04 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Well, I loved both your photos, and gave Crystal Shadows 10, so who cares? :P
Thanks, Lisa. That's two 10's in a row from you... you're going to give me a swelled ego!
-Terry
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06/24/2002 01:35:30 AM · #5 |
Hehe, I also gave "Preakness" a 10 and "At the Beach" a 9! I must be a fan of yours :) Funny how consistent people can be in voting even when you don't know who took the photo.
Then again, I'm a very soft voter. I gave 13 photos 10 in the "Shadows" challenge! I think most people see 10 as only a score you give photos that are perfect, but I give it to the ones that make me stop and gaze the longest, really. |
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06/24/2002 01:53:39 AM · #6 |
I don't understand how one could vote a '10' on 13 different photos. How do you determine which one of your 13 is the clear cut winner? Surely, you must have one which stands out the most. I can understand having several '9s' and so forth, but voting 10 on more than two photos seems rather non-critical for lack of a better word.
In my opinion, a 10 is an absolutely perfect photograph in every sense of the word... the compostion, colours, contrast, dof, etc. I very rarely hand out a 10 because not very many images on this site are absolutely perfect. If they were then i suppose they were taken by professional photographers and not amateurs.
Just my 2 cents. |
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06/24/2002 02:06:22 AM · #7 |
I don't think the objective of the vote is to guess a winner... I try to vote on each individual photo on it's own merits... Multiple 10s each week are common for me...
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06/24/2002 02:21:05 AM · #8 |
I've given out somewhere between zero and four tens for a challenge. I don't require absolute perfection in a photo because we can't spot edit.
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06/24/2002 03:11:20 AM · #9 |
I can't say I give out a lot of 10s, but then I don't give out a lot of 1s either. I'm with jmsetzler -- for me, I don't vote to pick winners (ie This one is best so it's the only 10 I'm giving), I vote each photo on its own and then let the overall score determine winners. Each week the numbers of scores I dole out in each numbered category fluctuates. I'd be more than happy to give all the photos in a given week 10s. I'd also have absolutely no problem giving none of the photos in a contest a 10 -- all depends on if I think any of them deserve it or not.
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06/24/2002 08:16:43 AM · #10 |
what lisa, jm and patella said ..
ditto... |
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06/24/2002 08:23:10 AM · #11 |
| I always give several 10s and I hope Bruno is in the minority with only giving one. I can usually spot a 10 immediately and have occassionally gone back and upgraded a pic from a 9 to a 10. I still can't understand how some photos receive so many LOW scores. For all you people who gave my photo a 3 or less, please tell me how I could bring that score up! |
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06/24/2002 08:37:41 AM · #12 |
i cant help you: i gave your pic a 7!
Originally posted by mpmcgeehan:
I always give several 10s and I hope Bruno is in the minority with only giving one. I can usually spot a 10 immediately and have occassionally gone back and upgraded a pic from a 9 to a 10. I still can't understand how some photos receive so many LOW scores. For all you people who gave my photo a 3 or less, please tell me how I could bring that score up!
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06/24/2002 11:21:21 AM · #13 |
| I gave you a 9. I don't understand why it scored so low. I loved the composition and the colors. |
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06/24/2002 11:42:10 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by mpmcgeehan:
I always give several 10s and I hope Bruno is in the minority with only giving one. I can usually spot a 10 immediately and have occassionally gone back and upgraded a pic from a 9 to a 10. I still can't understand how some photos receive so many LOW scores. For all you people who gave my photo a 3 or less, please tell me how I could bring that score up!
I gave it a 8... I liked the photo quite a bit but I think (strictly personal opinion) that the palm leaf shadow was unnecessary in this shot.. I really liked all the photos last week that used color in the shadows...
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06/24/2002 11:42:25 AM · #15 |
I go throught the photos and usually grade from 3 to 8.
I will then take the time later as the week goes on to really look at the photos and uprgrade accordingly.
Meaning...
-Really needs work = 3
-Some good stuff = 4
-Good all around effort = 5
-Good allaround effort with a nice element = 6
-Starting to really show something = 7
-My goodness we have something here = 8
-Near perfection with only a minor but noticeable technical flaw = 9
-I cannot see anything that I would change in any way = 10
Personally I think art is too subjective to put such a defined scale of 1-10 on it. Some simple scale like ...doesn't get me/good/excellent would be more than enough. Having a 1 -10 scale begs people to be more critical than they have time to be in a week and often encourages assholes to put 1's and 2's on good photos. |
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06/24/2002 11:56:34 AM · #16 |
Maybe one of the future additional challenges will have some different scoring guidelines where we can get and give input on categorical elements of each photograph... :)
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06/24/2002 12:03:16 PM · #17 |
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06/24/2002 12:05:45 PM · #18 |
Maybe it's possible to do "weighted scoring"? Scores from users who themself have good scores overall should count more than who have bad scores. I think that reflects the value of a score better. When I give a 10 to somebody it's quite possible that it still is a lousy photo. But when a professional (who thus has better scores him/herself) gives somebody a 10 then this really means something.
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06/24/2002 12:16:32 PM · #19 |
My biggest concern is not for me.
I am an older guy who has had a chance to study art, work with artists and build confidence in what I want to do with my chance at photography.
But what about the folks who are new to the whole "art thing" and to photogrpahy in general? What are we telling them as a group?
Unfortunately the internet is not for the meek. I would suggest anyone who has not had formal art training to go and take classes or join a local group in your area of the country. The environment is more condusive to learning than the internet where it is all about being a wolf.
You will never get the hands on needed to truly realize your vision on a pop vote website. I use the site as a simple way to give me a "russian roulette" topic to force me to think on my feet. Some folks like jm and magnetic and some others invest their passion here and care about communicating. That is worth me showing up and I thank them for providing their approach and forcing me to think some. |
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06/24/2002 12:18:04 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by stephan:
Maybe it's possible to do "weighted scoring"? Scores from users who themself have good scores overall should count more than who have bad scores. I think that reflects the value of a score better.[SNIP]
I personally would hope this would not happen. I've been taking pictures for many years, and most of them are very good. The digital camera, on the other hand, is more difficult to use at the present due to the simple fact that a digital camera takes pictures differently than a film camera. That said, when my shadows pic didn't score well, I knew that had I taken it with my film camera it would have been 10 times better. -Steve
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06/24/2002 12:53:00 PM · #21 |
Steve, but it's about digital photography and not film photography. So honestly, when you are inexperienced in digital photography (like everybody who is just experiencing something new) then wouldn't it be fair that your vote is weighted lower than others who have more experience and can score a photo better than you?
On the other hand I understand that you can still give valuable comments based on your film photography experience but it's better than the current situation. If somebody has a bad day and gives me a 1 it could ruin the 10 given by jmsetzler himself ;-) |
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06/24/2002 01:36:37 PM · #22 |
But this would suggest that if I have a bad week, the votes I give the following wouldn't count as much. I am inexperienced with taking digital pictures, and with my camera (has a very limited feature set); Framing, exposure and creativity I'm fine with.
As for the 1 or the 10, a good digital photographer can just as easily give a low vote as take a bad picture. The exception here is that I do not recognize as readily PhotoShop effects, but that may cause me to give a better score. |
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06/24/2002 03:04:26 PM · #23 |
No. If _you_ have a bad week I trust you that you don't vote everybodys shot down to 1 just because it gives you a good feeling. But there are others who do this. In a community of a certain size there are always some idiots. But I'm sure that these people don't have high scores (not implying the other way ;-)
My point is that you can correlate the overall score of all photos submitted by a photographer to his experience/superiority. Just as school grades are a way to measure your learing effort.
So you can weigh votes from users with good scores (-> experience, -> knows what s/he's talking about) higher than ones with low scores.
Of course such a system wouldn't be perfect (as school grades aren't a perfect system to measure the knowledge of a pupil) but it would definitively be an improvement.
There are other community sites who struggle with the same problem. Some solve it by a system called "meta moderation". Moderation in our case would be the voting on a photo. Meta moderation would be the voting on a users vote.
It works like this: You're given a random set of photos with a vote done by a user. Then you can rate it to fair or unfair. A good photo with a score of 1 would be as unfair as a bad photo with a 10. This filters out these strange "peak" values on the lower and higher end (hell, even I got two 10's on my truly no so perfect shot ;-)
This is just a suggestion. I'm not sure if the "meta moderation" system is really applicable to this site but the first suggestion of weighted scoring in my opinion is.
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06/24/2002 03:17:10 PM · #24 |
yes, there are always going to be some voters that enjoy giving low votes just for the heck of it. if they vote low enough, their votes will be ignored (except for this week where the agent doesn't seem to have run).
also, chances are that everyone will get some of these votes; overall they will cancel themselves out, and we should just stick to the voting system we have.
in addition, as has been pointed out many times by many of the photographers - it's the comments (at least the ones with constructive criticism) that you learn from, not the score. a high score is a nice bonus.
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06/24/2002 04:35:32 PM · #25 |
Ah, I didn't know that there was an automatic filter of unreasonable low scores. Now I understand what was meant by "Dumping of the Bad Scores" ;-)
You're right that this affects everybody the same so it doesn't matter. I didn't see that point. So forget my idea, it's not necessary. Would have made things also unnecessary complicated.
I agree that the comments are more important, but a high score is a motivation, too :-)
Cheers,
Stephan
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