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03/02/2009 03:20:36 PM · #1
It would be nice to see who voted what at the end of a challenge. I think it would stop voters scoring erratically if they thought their votes were visible. Personally I'd like people to know how I voted, but I also have nothing to hide and I don't vote maliciously.

03/02/2009 03:22:30 PM · #2
Unfortunately, I think having votes visible would trigger a rash of nasty PMs. Sad but true.
03/02/2009 03:45:38 PM · #3
Originally posted by mikeee:

It would be nice to see who voted what at the end of a challenge. I think it would stop voters scoring erratically if they thought their votes were visible. Personally I'd like people to know how I voted, but I also have nothing to hide and I don't vote maliciously.

I virtually always put my vote at the end of comments I make......but I don't always comment every vote.
03/02/2009 03:46:35 PM · #4
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


I virtually always put my vote at the end of comments I make......but I don't always comment every vote.


sounds identical my process
03/02/2009 03:51:14 PM · #5
I would not personnaly care if people saw what I voted but I think the negative would far outweigh the positive effects you would see if this were to happen. I can only imagine how people would be demanding voters justify their votes which would create ill will and make people less likely to even vote.
03/02/2009 03:56:40 PM · #6
I dont think we need to see who voted a '5' on a ribbon winner and then having some folk try to hold them accountable for their votes... or seeing someone who you really respect give you a 3, and then try not to let that affect you. I think it would be more bad than good for sure.
03/02/2009 04:13:21 PM · #7
As for eratic voters, just because you can not see who the voters are you are making an assumtion the voters are being eratic and had no reason for giving the vote they gave. I personnally gave a 1 to a blue ribbon winner once because I truly felt it did not meet the challenge but the other the voters saw it differently, as I look back I still feel the image DNMC, at that time I was consistantly giving all images I felt were DNMC's 1's. I would not consider that vote to be eratic since I voted that way on DNMC image all the time.

I believe some of the threads that ask for feedback on why an image received the votes it got during voting is much more effective.
03/02/2009 04:21:58 PM · #8
Originally posted by PapaBob:



I believe some of the threads that ask for feedback on why an image received the votes it got during voting is much more effective.


How can it be more effective if it isn't happening. The fact is that some people are voting 1s because they either don't understand photography, don't understand the challenge or are just being malicious. Very very few photos are worthy of a 1 if the photo mets the challenge, and those that are DESERVE a comment.

Maybe I'm just grouchy today, but in a community it's essential that peolpe pull their weight and act responsibly.
03/02/2009 04:30:16 PM · #9
I think you are confusing opinions with facts. How about you vote the way you think is fair and give everyone else that same courtesy?
03/02/2009 04:30:56 PM · #10
Originally posted by mikeee:

Originally posted by PapaBob:



I believe some of the threads that ask for feedback on why an image received the votes it got during voting is much more effective.


How can it be more effective if it isn't happening. The fact is that some people are voting 1s because they either don't understand photography, don't understand the challenge or are just being malicious. Very very few photos are worthy of a 1 if the photo mets the challenge, and those that are DESERVE a comment.

Maybe I'm just grouchy today, but in a community it's essential that peolpe pull their weight and act responsibly.


I think you will have a small amount of votes that are either to high or to low on any image being voted, just because a voter feels that way does not always make it wrong, votes are an opinion of the image, if our image do not connect to a voter they do not connect! Backing a voter into a corner because we do not like their impression of an image will not have a positive effect on the site. People do not always need to have a great grasp of photography to know what they like or dislike, there is no right or wrong its just their impression.

Message edited by author 2009-03-02 16:32:26.
03/02/2009 04:31:50 PM · #11
Originally posted by mikeee:

...in a community it's essential that people pull their weight and act responsibly.


Yup, it is, but it has to be because they derive a benefit from doing so, and not for fear of punishment if they don't. In other words, positive reinforcement, not negative.
Making votes visible after voting would, unfortunately, fall into the "negative reinforcement" category. It would open up voters to the wrath of the challenge entrants for perceived slights. The end effect would be unintentionally dishonest (skewed) voting. No one would want to vote an image low, knowing punishment will likely be forthcoming.
There will always be those who vote dishonestly or maliciously, and we can't catch them all... but DPC does have checks in place, and overwhelming evidence exists that the vast majority of votes cast are honest. It's not a perfect system, no, but it is a very good one.
03/02/2009 04:51:20 PM · #12
I can tell you right now that I would start ignoring ALL PMs that came my way if my voting was made visible. :D

I'm not a harsh voter for the most part, but I do have no problem giving out 1s - 4s. Do I comment on all of them? No. Do I feel I need to? No. Do I feel that being visible to people will actually change my voting? No. Do I feel that everyone's votes being visible will make anyone change their voting habits? Not really. Maybe a few, but probably not a statistically significant number.

I feel that it's also just another way to try and push an agenda to get falsely inflated voting to happen because of some need to feel better about our entries than we do (or should).

Just completely unnecessary and irrelevant.
03/02/2009 05:08:43 PM · #13
Hello Everyone,

In my opinion, we should not be allowed to vote in the challenge that we are entering. I looked at the vote results and I got lower score from people in the same challenge, but received higher score from people who are not in the same challenge.

Ang

Message edited by author 2009-03-02 17:10:28.
03/02/2009 05:17:02 PM · #14
Originally posted by angkokweng:

Hello Everyone,

In my opinion, we should not be allowed to vote in the challenge that we are entering. I looked at the vote results and I got lower score from people in the same challenge, but received higher score from people who are not in the same challenge.

Ang


I've been in challenges where the participants have voted higher than the non-participants, and for most of the challenges where they haven't, the averages are pretty close.

It'd take a large number of challenges where the averages would have to be quite largely uneven before I think this would ever become a changeable issue.
03/02/2009 05:17:33 PM · #15
IF everyone on this site was mature, able to take criticism, able to recognize that different people have different opinions, and just generally "nice," then I *might* be able to tolerate transparent voting.

I can only imagine the doo-doo that would fly around here if it were "open."

<karmat shudders>
03/02/2009 05:20:57 PM · #16
Originally posted by karmat:

IF everyone on this site was mature, able to take criticism, able to recognize that different people have different opinions, and just generally "nice," then I *might* be able to tolerate transparent voting.

I can only imagine the doo-doo that would fly around here if it were "open."

<karmat shudders>


Nicely said. The only way I could even remotely see it working is just a general histogram of the votes distributed on the whole, MAYBE even per challenge. But that's about the only way I could see it even working without all the said "doo-doo" as Karma so eloquently put it.
03/02/2009 06:06:16 PM · #17
I say we hide from public viewing the stat, "Avg Vote Cast:" (or remove it altogether).

I know members who do not vote below a 5 or 6 because it would show in their average that they are known as "low voters", or even trolls. They will skip voting on photographs that are below 5 or 6 and only vote for the 6 or higher image, in their opinion.

Message edited by author 2009-03-02 21:52:00.
03/02/2009 07:27:33 PM · #18
Ich dachte, ich würde nach dieser, um etwas von Interesse auf diesen Thread. Ein kleines Geheimnis, ein kleines Abenteuer. Sie Aus, um diese in Ihrer lokalen Sprache. Natürlich ist es nichts anderes als sinnlose Scheiße, und Sie haben Ihre Zeit verschwendet, aber zumindest ist es nicht eine Wiederholung der gleichen alten Ideen ja? Viel Glück und Gottes Geschwindigkeit.
03/02/2009 09:16:51 PM · #19
Originally posted by mikeee:

It would be nice to see who voted what at the end of a challenge. I think it would stop voters scoring erratically if they thought their votes were visible. Personally I'd like people to know how I voted, but I also have nothing to hide and I don't vote maliciously.


My vote is nobodies business. Transparent voting would hurt this site IMO. I was a member at another photo voting site and votes were known. Their 1 to 10 range was compressed to a 6 to 10 range
because of transparent voting. Bunches of people would PM you and bitch to all high heaven if you gave them a 6 or below. A few would bitch about 7's or below. After a couple of years of this I decided DPC should be my only photo voting home. When votes become transparent here, I will leave.
03/02/2009 09:32:01 PM · #20
I don't think seeing every vote would be useful. What I think would be a better idea is posting the voters overall challenge information in their profile under challenges entered. Even if the didn't enter that challenge it would show number of Votes Cast, Avg Vote, and Comments.
03/02/2009 09:54:37 PM · #21
What ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' violinist123 said.

Actually the terms "witch hunt" & "village burning" spring to my mind.
03/02/2009 10:05:45 PM · #22
Originally posted by violinist123:

Ich dachte, ich würde nach dieser, um etwas von Interesse auf diesen Thread. Ein kleines Geheimnis, ein kleines Abenteuer. Sie Aus, um diese in Ihrer lokalen Sprache. Natürlich ist es nichts anderes als sinnlose Scheiße, und Sie haben Ihre Zeit verschwendet, aber zumindest ist es nicht eine Wiederholung der gleichen alten Ideen ja? Viel Glück und Gottes Geschwindigkeit.


Sie haben Recht, ich habe meine Zeit. Ich möchte Post in Fremdsprachen oft mehr.
03/03/2009 03:28:09 AM · #23
In the light of overwhelming evidence to suggest that challenge entrants can't be trusted to act like adults I'll withdraw this suggestion.

There's obviously a history of punishment, retribution and nastiness I wasn't aware of. However, I would like to be able to see how different people voted my photos so that after the event I can work out why I got 1s and 2s for certain photos. Obviously I'd then track them down and take out my revenge, making them eat the keyboard they'd scored me from and taking their camera equipment.


Message edited by author 2009-03-03 03:36:35.
03/03/2009 03:42:24 AM · #24
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by angkokweng:

Hello Everyone,

In my opinion, we should not be allowed to vote in the challenge that we are entering. I looked at the vote results and I got lower score from people in the same challenge, but received higher score from people who are not in the same challenge.

Ang


I've been in challenges where the participants have voted higher than the non-participants, and for most of the challenges where they haven't, the averages are pretty close.


I am very curious to know how you both know who is voting on your challenges & whether they are participants of the challenge or not.
03/03/2009 03:48:39 AM · #25
At the end of the challenge the scores are given for each photo for various voter pools. Here's a recent one of mine:

Place: 13 out of 62
Avg (all users): 6.0229
Avg (commenters): 6.7857
Avg (participants): 5.8800
Avg (non-participants): 6.0380

It is usual for non-participants to score higher than participants. I wouldn't suggest it has anything to do with malicious voting.

Message edited by author 2009-03-03 03:50:22.
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