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02/26/2009 01:14:21 AM · #51
Originally posted by karmat:

Kevin, THREE people misunderstood what you meant (Judi, K10 and myself), we even acknowledge that yes, what you said was *technically* correct, but we misunderstood it, and then gave you reasons WHY we misunderstood it. I even went further as to tell what might clear it up a bit, and you still refuse to acknowledge that what you said might be construed as something else.

That is unreal.


Seconded. Make that FOUR of us. And I've thrown in MY training in logic and semantics as well, for all it seems to matter to him. As you say, "unreal".

R.
02/26/2009 01:15:32 AM · #52
Originally posted by karmat:

Kevin, THREE people misunderstood what you meant (Judi, K10 and myself), we even acknowledge that yes, what you said was *technically* correct, but we misunderstood it, and then gave you reasons WHY we misunderstood it. I even went further as to tell what might clear it up a bit, and you still refuse to acknowledge that what you said might be construed as something else.

That is unreal.


Actually, Judi re-read it and apologized for HER misunderstanding.

And no, I completely admit that what I said WAS misconstrued. But not due to any fault of mine, but on your part and K10's.

What I cannot believe is that since you've been corrected on this with examples, you keep insisting the falsehood.
02/26/2009 01:16:09 AM · #53
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by karmat:

Kevin, THREE people misunderstood what you meant (Judi, K10 and myself), we even acknowledge that yes, what you said was *technically* correct, but we misunderstood it, and then gave you reasons WHY we misunderstood it. I even went further as to tell what might clear it up a bit, and you still refuse to acknowledge that what you said might be construed as something else.

That is unreal.


Seconded. Make that FOUR of us. And I've thrown in MY training in logic and semantics as well, for all it seems to matter to him. As you say, "unreal".

R.


I'm officially throwing my hands up. heh.
02/26/2009 01:19:23 AM · #54
And since this thread is starting to go in circles with different people making the same disproven points, I'm out of it. IGNORE. Thanks again Judi for being mature enough to apologize for your error. We'll agree to disagree.
02/26/2009 01:19:58 AM · #55
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by karmat:

Kevin, THREE people misunderstood what you meant (Judi, K10 and myself), we even acknowledge that yes, what you said was *technically* correct, but we misunderstood it, and then gave you reasons WHY we misunderstood it. I even went further as to tell what might clear it up a bit, and you still refuse to acknowledge that what you said might be construed as something else.

That is unreal.


Seconded. Make that FOUR of us. And I've thrown in MY training in logic and semantics as well, for all it seems to matter to him. As you say, "unreal".

R.


I'm officially throwing my hands up. heh.


Hey now there is a challenge....!

Challenge Description - use nudity, hands in the air, a dictionary and a streaker running past McDonalds and be creative...yeah right...now where do I put the Red Nose????

Before anyone jumps down my throat...I am just trying to lighten up this thread a bit!!! Before it gets out of hand...or underhand...or...oh whatever!
02/26/2009 01:21:33 AM · #56
Okay, one more thing and then I'm putting this thread on ignore, because it is a total waste of time and energy at this point (judi, bear, K10, if it becomes more productive, shoot me a pm).

kevin, to look at the *reasons* given as to why your statement was misunderstood, as put forth by FOUR individual and different members of this site, and to continue to say that it (your statement) is completely correct and shouldn't have been misunderstood is, at best, prideful, and at worst arrogant. If you want to communicate effectively, it is very wise to consider how those on the receiving end are taking it. When they give you feedback, very clearly stating the how and why they misunderstood you, it is not necessary to continue arguing about *what* you said, but is better to reword, or rewrite, your thoughts in order to be more conducive to understanding. If you want to communicate clearly. If correctness is all you care about, then it really doesn't matter, but it is definitely frustrating to those around you, and is duplicitous because it starts seeming like you say one thing that could mean two different things, and if it gets hot on the one hand, you will just claim it means something else.

Perception is reality.
02/26/2009 01:25:55 AM · #57
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by karmat:

Kevin, THREE people misunderstood what you meant (Judi, K10 and myself), we even acknowledge that yes, what you said was *technically* correct, but we misunderstood it, and then gave you reasons WHY we misunderstood it. I even went further as to tell what might clear it up a bit, and you still refuse to acknowledge that what you said might be construed as something else.

That is unreal.


Actually, Judi re-read it and apologized for HER misunderstanding.

And no, I completely admit that what I said WAS misconstrued. But not due to any fault of mine, but on your part and K10's.

What I cannot believe is that since you've been corrected on this with examples, you keep insisting the falsehood.


of course. carry on.
02/26/2009 01:27:04 AM · #58
Originally posted by Judi:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by karmat:

Kevin, THREE people misunderstood what you meant (Judi, K10 and myself), we even acknowledge that yes, what you said was *technically* correct, but we misunderstood it, and then gave you reasons WHY we misunderstood it. I even went further as to tell what might clear it up a bit, and you still refuse to acknowledge that what you said might be construed as something else.

That is unreal.


Seconded. Make that FOUR of us. And I've thrown in MY training in logic and semantics as well, for all it seems to matter to him. As you say, "unreal".

R.


I'm officially throwing my hands up. heh.


Hey now there is a challenge....!

Challenge Description - use nudity, hands in the air, a dictionary and a streaker running past McDonalds and be creative...yeah right...now where do I put the Red Nose????

Before anyone jumps down my throat...I am just trying to lighten up this thread a bit!!! Before it gets out of hand...or underhand...or...oh whatever!


Just keep your hands to yourself. :o\

Message edited by author 2009-02-26 01:27:49.
02/26/2009 01:31:43 AM · #59
Originally posted by cpanaioti:


Just keep your hands to yourself. :o\


that's not a problem.

I have nightly practice.
02/26/2009 01:33:09 AM · #60
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:


Just keep your hands to yourself. :o\


that's not a problem.

I have nightly practice.


Quit misconstruing what I said. ;o)
02/26/2009 01:36:07 AM · #61
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:


Just keep your hands to yourself. :o\


that's not a problem.

I have nightly practice.


Quit misconstruing what I said. ;o)


I'm not. It's all in your imagination. Pay attention.





*ducks*
02/26/2009 03:50:32 AM · #62
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Judi:

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' HawkeyeLonewolf, just to give you an example here. You don't like nudity...and yet you choose to mark it down and berate the site and its members over the nudity and how it doesn't fit the challenges. I don't like those stoopid woody dolls...and yes...they seem to slip into many challenges...that are not labelled as a 'WOODY' challenge. You choose to use your woody for such challenges...even a fireworks challenge...so tell me...where in the challenge description does it say to use a Woody????

And for the record....I gave your image a 6.....and I hate those woody dolls...but I didn't let it sway my judgement. Can you do the same?

Challenge - Firewords
Description -Ring in the new year by capturing a display of fireworks.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/975/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_752257.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/975/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_752257.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Where have I berated the site or its members? This thread started humorous but did possibly encourage someone to view the skin challenge as a nudity challenge. Point made, so I offered a counterpoint. I'm one little vote.

You don't like Woody dolls... that's cool You should vote it down accordingly if seeing it is so distasteful to you.

I don't find the adult human body distasteful in any way, however, the revealing of such should only be between a husband and wife. That's my belief and I stand by it. You may not like it, but it's there all the same. And I'm sure I'm not alone even on DPC.

When a challenge clearly calls for it, then I can walk away and avoid that challenge as a whole. But I should not have to not take part in a challenge because someone else might have slipped something in. In the fireworks example, one might not have expected nudity there, but just like skin, it COULD be submitted and members (even underage ones) might be forced to see it. No warnings, no opt-in, no nothing.

Despite many strong arguments to do so, the site does not properly enforce the filters it offers... because of some misguided theory of unfair voting. Therefore if the image is put before me, then I will vote on it... as quickly as possible to get it out of my queue.

Again, one vote won't matter.


You could always just rescind your membership and never be haunted by these kind of images ever again.
02/26/2009 04:27:49 AM · #63
Question: How do you circumcise a whale?
Answer: Send down four skin divers.
02/26/2009 04:30:43 AM · #64
The rules of submissions are well publicised. In any challenge one can expect to see pictures of ANY subject as long as they meet the site rules. I tend to avoid sites where I feel the content may be offensive to me.
02/26/2009 05:48:52 AM · #65
Originally posted by Judi:

... I try to overlook my beliefs when it comes to others styles and not let it sway my judgement over whether it is a good photo or not.


*applauding*

I have no problem with nudity (mine or anyone else's). My personal belief is the human body completely naked isn't necessarily a sexual thing. For me the human body becomes highly sexual when it's wearing minimal clothing. It's the secret of what's under the clothing that leans to the sexual. Nudity by itself is just a body. I'll admit some bodies are more appealing to look at, but that's also subjective.

Personally...I'm really interested in what the non-nude photo's will look like. I'm guessing we'll have some really good photo's for this challenge.
02/26/2009 06:47:31 AM · #66
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

It's certainly not going to stop anyone, and one person's vote is pretty negligible.


Exactly! But if it encourages one person to submit something tasteful instead of a nude, then it was worthwhile. If not, then those who approach the challenge with a good attitude and good photos will get good scores. Those who resort to nudity won't be hurt with my little old vote.


Yes I agree, the world would be a much better place if you could just force your beliefs on everyone who doesn´t agree. Now hand me my shotgun and I shall make thee my slaves!
02/26/2009 06:57:12 AM · #67
I can solve this whole problem. I will just enter a full body nude of myself in Skin and then this site wont want to see another artistic or any other kind of nude picture again. hahah.
02/26/2009 07:13:16 AM · #68
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Nudes = 1

Seems to me that would be deliberately malicious. I think your votes should get scrubbed.

Message edited by author 2009-02-26 07:14:10.
02/26/2009 07:25:13 AM · #69
Originally posted by david_c:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Nudes = 1

Seems to me that would be deliberately malicious. I think your votes should get scrubbed.


There was at least one person who voted my Post It picture a 3 just because it wasnt sized to 720 pixels. I didnt think it was malicious. They just wanted to make a point that if more people dont enter the 720 size pictures then the site may not feel that using the 720 is needed and they want to keep the higher pixel size on the site. I think that HawkeyeLonewolf just would like to see more filters on the nude pictures and that is his reasoning.

I think every one has reasons why they vote a picture up down but I dont think it should be a federal case when someone says in public what the reasoning is. I hate arguments and I am not going to say more about this but it is always talked about that people want to know why some people vote low. That they vote low and dont say why or give a comment. Then when people do say why they are getting a hard time over it. Terrible.
02/26/2009 07:48:35 AM · #70
What is wrong with having the censorship option work for this? Ignoring the fact that many people have a problem with nudity, ignoring that fact that many people think there's nothing wrong with the human body, tell me this:

Given the fact that the site allows children 13 years old to join--should they be viewing nude photos in the name of art? Would I let my 13 year old see Michelangelo's David? Yes. Does the nude photography on this site rise to the level of Michelangelo, so that it makes it okay for my child to view it? No.

My 13 year old isn't on this site--but my 9 year old loves looking through the pictures with me, and always looks the day after a challenge to see what won. I would be a lot more comfortable having a censorship option that worked everywhere. I could turn it on when my child is with me. He can hardly wait until he's 13 so that he can have an account. Without a censorship option, I don't think I'd be ready to let him get an account at 13.

Why isn't this an option?
02/26/2009 08:23:18 AM · #71
Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

If I didn't have to see them, then I wouldn't hunt them out to vote them down.

... It is a matter of sentence clarity. A better way to state it, and not lead to misunderstandings would be "If I didn't have to see them, I wouldn't vote them down." When you introduce "hunt them out" it makes the sentence ever so slightly more ambiguous, and introduces implied meaning to what you say.

The joys of the English language.

I understood what ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' HawkeyeLonewolf meant, but I agree with you ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/811.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/811.gif', '/') + 1) . ' karmat on the wording - the simple rewording that you posted is clearer.

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' vawendy - This topic (nudes) gets hotly debated every once-in-awhile here at DPC. I'm kind of in your corner that it would be nice not to have to see nudes in a challenge if you didn't want to - however:

1) How would you enforce such a restriction? In order for the nude filter to work (technically "Adult Content" - which is even more vague, violence, drugs, etc...) the challenge entries would have to be categorized (currently only "Nude" will hide the thumbnail) prior to voting. Who's going to do that? Who has the time, especially as volunteers?
2) This IS a photography website. Nudes in artwork have been around for a long, LONG, time. The terms of DPChallenge are pretty well defined on what can be shown or not, and for the purposes of photography the terms IMO seem appropriate.

In many cases the human form can and does get photographed in an appropriate tasteful manner.

One of my concerns is viewing DPC challenges while at the office. Similar to your concern with your children, I used to worry about nudes popping up on the screen unexpected. Now, if I know I'm going to have a concern I'll preview the thumbs somewhere safe (at home, and another reason not to eliminate thumbnail views), vote on anything inappropriate to have on screen at work, and this moves the voted images to the end of the queue. This could work for concerns with your children.

While on this subject, one of my pet peeves in a challenge is when an entry is made that goes blatantly for the "sex sells" approach in a challenge where it's really kind of out of place.
02/26/2009 09:17:08 AM · #72
Why not simply have a Nude challenge? Why make it so difficult?

Then the opposed dont have to view and vote and the pro's don't have to endure the wrath of the opposed.
02/26/2009 09:25:07 AM · #73
Personally I think that, as long as the images are tasteful and neither graphic nor blatant, nudity is not an issue. Neither is religion.

Rather than try to censor art to meet domestic or professional situations, individuals should decide whether they want to be a member of this site and take measures to ensure that their use of it meets their own sensibilities. However, their sensibilities should not impinge on the enjoyment of other members.

If somebody feels the site is unsuitable for their children or work, they should access it in such a way that it does not present a problem to them, rather than try to change the site. Otherwise the site would run to the demands of the lowest common denominator.
02/26/2009 09:27:01 AM · #74
Originally posted by Azrifel:

Why not simply have a Nude challenge? Why make it so difficult?

Then the opposed dont have to view and vote and the pro's don't have to endure the wrath of the opposed.


Because it's a SKIN challenge. My skin image will not be a 'nude'. If people are worried about nudity, there's a self-portrait challenge to enter/view instead.
02/26/2009 09:58:23 AM · #75
Really people?! Is nudity really that big a problem? People on this site should be able to let go of their puritan ways for 10 mins and vote on the quality of the photo, lighting, set up etc. If I didn't like cats, I wouldn't go out there and give a top quality image of a cat a 1 because I hate cats! that's nonsense. Now before anyone says: "that's not the same thing" YES IT IS the same thing.

Life is too short to be offended by such things as artful nudes. geez.
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