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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Were the Iraquees really liberated?
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05/01/2004 09:52:01 AM · #1
When you see these photo's and stories I think the Western world has lost that war and not only a war..... Now I understand why America didn't want to join the international tribunal for war crimes in The Hague. Great Brittain is a member though. These guys and girls are just sick, Saddam would be proud of them. :(

British Soldiers kick a thief, piss on him and throw him out of the back of riding car.
American soldiers threathen with elektrocution and such
The photo's from the last link are the mild versions. In the European press there were far worse, including wires attached to a men's reproductive organs and a female soldier laughing at it.


05/01/2004 10:02:10 AM · #2
War brings out the best in some men, the worst in others.
05/01/2004 11:45:08 AM · #3
Well, if this would have been some countries soldiers that got caught, you never would have heard of it. The prisoners and soldiers would have been both executed and the pictures destroyed.
Didn't Jessica Lyngh claim she was raped? Haven't heard alot about that now have we. Oh yeah, because one Iraqi doc said he doubted it happened.
Well said coolhar
05/01/2004 11:51:26 AM · #4
Unfortunatlely, there is no 'body of justice' big or strong enough to make them accountable for what they have done.

Yes perhaps other countries would 'destroy the evidence', but they don't often invade and call it 'freedom' either.

No wonder the iraqi's are not interested in this 'liberation'
05/01/2004 12:13:40 PM · #5
Originally posted by ellamay:

Unfortunatlely, there is no 'body of justice' big or strong enough to make them accountable for what they have done.

Yes perhaps other countries would 'destroy the evidence', but they don't often invade and call it 'freedom' either.

No wonder the iraqi's are not interested in this 'liberation'

I guess if we invaded, then the spoils of war are ours. Give me my cheaper gas.
Just like these arguments about "invading" Iraq...there are 2 different sides, so you really can't say "the Iraqi's"
Instead of ousting a dangerous dictator, lets just next time, throw money at them, and say we are sending the money for the people of that country, to help them have a better life. We saw the great lifes alot of the Iraqi peopple lived when the palaces were taken over.
05/01/2004 12:33:50 PM · #6
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

Well, if this would have been some countries soldiers that got caught, you never would have heard of it.

That doesn't make it right, though. The defence of "well we're not quite as bad as other people" is pretty weak.

The key to winning any peace is the "hearts and minds" of the people you're trying to bring peace to - this sort of thing hardly helps.
05/01/2004 01:08:39 PM · #7
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

Well, if this would have been some countries soldiers that got caught, you never would have heard of it. The prisoners and soldiers would have been both executed and the pictures destroyed.
Didn't Jessica Lyngh claim she was raped? Haven't heard alot about that now have we. Oh yeah, because one Iraqi doc said he doubted it happened.
Well said coolhar


um... Jessica Lynch stated herselp that everything the media said about what happened to her was a lie. Being defensive about something like this is comes off badly. I think coolhar has said the right thing. The fact is there are psychos no matter where they are from. There's ntohing uniques about them being American other than that they are. What the soldiers did has nothing to do with the American part. It is the act that appauls us. Besides, we are alwasy hearing about what other soldiers & leaders are doing aborad. What was the justification for getting Saddam?
05/01/2004 01:10:40 PM · #8
dont like war?
//www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/
05/01/2004 01:23:46 PM · #9
Were the Iraquies really liberated?

Are Americans really liberated?
05/01/2004 01:27:34 PM · #10
I'm just sick of the whining over what is already done
911 could have been prevented, BS
The war in Iraq was TOTALLY wrong, hmmm
There are freaks and fanatics all over and of course they rear their ugly heads daily. I get to experience their aftermath on occassion working in an ER, so I am very aware of it.
For the coming election, I am still going to go by the rule of, who would Saddam, Osama, and the terrorists vote for?...and then vote for the other guy.

Message edited by author 2004-05-01 13:29:54.
05/01/2004 05:28:52 PM · #11
The United States has been training terrorists for years at the School of the Americas (now called the Western Hemispheric Institute for Security Cooperation). Send others out to do our dirty work...and I do mean dirty! Nobody is getting liberated in Iraq...it's just PR so that they can have the voters support to continue the horrors that have been going on.

Before the first Gulf War Iraq had he highest economy in he middle east going, with good schools, good medical care and a high standard of living. What have he Iraqi people got now? That's not to say that Hussein wasn't a brutal dictator, but a lot of the population was benefitting.

Sadaam was the US govt's man for a long time but now we wanted him out because we want control of the Iraqi oil reserves and because we have a govt now that is very imperialistic and pushing war.
05/01/2004 05:49:33 PM · #12
its just wrong to treat another human being like that. I hope they receive the full punishment they deserve.

James
05/01/2004 05:58:20 PM · #13
We all knew this was going to happen anyway. No surprises. was it Oscar Wilde who said 'for what can war but endless war still breed?'
Hugh O'Malley Fine Art PhotographyHugh O'Malley Kitty Sullivan Photography
05/01/2004 07:10:35 PM · #14
I am just extremely disappointed about those 'soldiers'. There is just no excuse for this kind of behaviour for anyone (no matter what nationality/religion/whatever).
I don't care about the US elections and it is not about how right this war in Iraq is.
It is just that people do this to other people! There is no excuse, never. Because the other ones did it is an excuse that makes the ones who do it Now just as bad as the other ones.

It might seem so easy to say this from across the pond. But I am similarly disappointed about the way "our" Dutch soldiers acted in Indonesia after the second world war. They burned down whole villages and committed several war crimes. They got away with it. :(


05/01/2004 07:39:20 PM · #15
The monstrosity that apparently lives in the souls of our fellow man never ceases to amaze me. From the jubilant Iraqi crowds clamouring beneath the charred corpses of Americans, to the dimwitted American soldiers happily humiliating Iraqi prisoners. All of it disgusts me to no end.
Clearly, there are animals on both sides of this conflict.
05/01/2004 10:05:21 PM · #16
Originally posted by lockjawdavis:

The monstrosity that apparently lives in the souls of our fellow man never ceases to amaze me. From the jubilant Iraqi crowds clamouring beneath the charred corpses of Americans, to the dimwitted American soldiers happily humiliating Iraqi prisoners. All of it disgusts me to no end.
Clearly, there are animals on both sides of this conflict.


I doubt there are animals which take delight in humiliating their prey beyond the point of death, and particularly not their own species.
05/01/2004 10:44:09 PM · #17
Read this, and tell me - can you STILL have doubts? And yes, Ray Reynolds is a real person - this is not a made up name or note. This same Ray Reynolds has been instrumental in growing corn in Iraq - take a look at the link below the letter.

This is was sent to me today from my boss...please pass on so everyone can know what is really happening in Iraq..

Thanks
Rachelle

As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that have happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.)

* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.

* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.

* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.

* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.

* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.

* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.

* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.

* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.

* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.

* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.

* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.

* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.

* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.

* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.

* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.

* An interim constitution has been signed.

* Girls are allowed to attend school.

* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

Ray Reynolds
SFC Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion


Radio Iowa
05/01/2004 10:44:59 PM · #18
Is it not interesting that there is less interest in this event than there was with the photography of the anonymous coffins of the U.S. soldiers?

I think there are a moderate number of U.S. citizens that condone these acts, and cheer them in private.
05/01/2004 10:56:40 PM · #19
I'd like to see a shopping list of nasty stuff that has happened since the war began.

Originally posted by kaycee:

Read this, and tell me - can you STILL have doubts? And yes, Ray Reynolds is a real person - this is not a made up name or note. This same Ray Reynolds has been instrumental in growing corn in Iraq - take a look at the link below the letter.

This is was sent to me today from my boss...please pass on so everyone can know what is really happening in Iraq..

Thanks
Rachelle

As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that have happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.)

* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.

* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.

* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.

* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.

* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.

* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.

* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.

* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.

* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.

* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.

* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.

* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.

* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.

* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.

* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.

* An interim constitution has been signed.

* Girls are allowed to attend school.

* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

Ray Reynolds
SFC Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion


Radio Iowa

05/01/2004 11:05:07 PM · #20
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.

That just about says it all, except where it was exported to.
05/01/2004 11:10:39 PM · #21
Seems to me I see a "shopping list" of "nasty stuff" shown each and every day on the network news. And the spin put on it is incredible. No, I don't believe that torture such as a few have been shown to have committed is right. No human being should be treated in such a way. But, I'd just for once like to see the network news go out of their way to show that something has been done right.

05/01/2004 11:17:30 PM · #22
With all due respect to Sergeant Reynolds, many items of that list would have been accomplished simply had the U.S. lifted the embargo. I find it difficult that a sergeant would have first hand knowledge of everything in that list; I think he only summerizes what someone else reported or what he has been told. He like everyone else is reliant on the same media that he is quick to criticize.

The list itself is very general. Without going through the list item by item take for instance "Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city".

No where does it say they are functional and operating, nor does it say this was accomplished by the occupation forces. It is possible the sewer and water lines were manufactured and installed even before the first war.

The partisan political commentary of Sergeant Reynolds portrays what I see as the original intent of his letter.

Aside from the letter I think one has to salute Sergeant Reynolds for being creative. Trying to grow corn for his fellow soldiers seems like a grand idea. I wish him the best of luck with his crop.

Lastly, everyone including Sergeant Reynolds should never forget that all Americans are grateful and respectful of the service and sacrifice the U.S. soldiers are required to make every day.
05/01/2004 11:21:00 PM · #23
For months ABC and several other news groups have had groups of reporters in Iraq looking for atrocities and nothing else. After months of hard work, if the only thing they can come up with is 8 or 9 scumbag US soldiers doing bad things, then I think things as a whole are pretty damn good!

As far as someone above saying that the coffins photographer got more coverage than this... well I'd like to know what news channel your watching. Watching cnn/msnbc in the background here and they've pretty much done nothing but talk about the "atrocities" that they word in such a nice way to make it sound like all of our troops are committing and that complete and total looser Michael Jackson.

And don't even get me started on this crap about reading the names of those killed in Iraq... All fine and dandy if the whole thing started with a "This ad has been OKed by the DNC". But instead that "reporter", yes, reporter is in quotes for a reason, claimed it was not politically motivated at all... Does he really think were all that stupid?

Oh Ya, the female commander over there, I apologize for not knowing her real name or rank... Ever notice how the left works extremely hard at destroying successful careers of women and minorities if they are not liberals? CNN spent at least an entire 15 minute block earlier tonight chatting about how there is no way she didn't know or approve of what was going on... Did they have proof? Of course not, but who cares, she not a liberal.


Message edited by author 2004-05-01 23:26:36.
05/01/2004 11:21:09 PM · #24
Originally posted by kaycee:

Seems to me I see a "shopping list" of "nasty stuff" shown each and every day on the network news. And the spin put on it is incredible. No, I don't believe that torture such as a few have been shown to have committed is right. No human being should be treated in such a way. But, I'd just for once like to see the network news go out of their way to show that something has been done right.


Like when Hillary, Al & Tipper Gore went to Mexico after an earthquake? The news televised images of the three with shovels in their hands as if they were helping to dig out those who might be trapped. A few months later it was leaked that it was only a photo-op... they really hadn't done any work at all.

But it did appear to be "good" news for some.
05/01/2004 11:24:58 PM · #25
So of those opposed to what these few soldiers have done, would you be in favor or opposed to allowing a war crimes trial?
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