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12/24/2008 12:29:20 PM · #1
Since all you people decided to pay down debt with your last stimulus check instead of rushing out and blowing it senselessly on stupid things, here's the governments idea for the next stimulus:

The short-term help would flow partly from tax cuts of $1,000 for couples and $500 for individuals, costing about $140 billion over 2009-2010. The Obama team, said two congressional Democratic aides familiar with the discussions, will likely deliver those tax cuts by reducing the tax withheld from paychecks. This would put more money in paychecks, unlike the lump-sum rebates issued earlier this year. Many people used those rebates to pay down debt, rather than spending them as the administration had hoped.



WOW! a whopping $20 a week extra. $10 for you, $10 for your spouse. I'm gonna put that high dollar import sports car I've always wanted on order right now.
12/24/2008 01:01:09 PM · #2
thats $20 a week more that people could spend on things like food orclothing or things tha will help the economey. while it may not seem as great as $1000 at one time it adds up the same. so if you want you could save back that $20 for the whole year build a little bit of intrest on it then blow it all at once
12/24/2008 02:04:08 PM · #3
If the person makes less than $26,000/yr and claims all exemptions on their check with a family of four they don't pay any income tax a week anyway. So for those people which includes my family will not see a stimulus package. Seniors or disabled Americans receiving Social Security will not see the stimulus package. So the plan is put the money in the hands of people that make more money. Hummm, go plan! Not....

Now if they would take that off the FICA [which should be F*C* Tax] then everyone that works would get a stimulus. But again seniors, which need it more than many, will still be left out.


12/24/2008 02:17:54 PM · #4
Yeah - I agree it makes no sense with the helping the non rich people banter that they go on with (on either side). Catch is that the last one gave a tax prebate (rebate of next years tax) to people who pay no tax as you say - that makes no sense to me.

I think calling FICA a tax instead of the pyramid scheme it is would make more people aware of the issue. In the end with FICA and Tax, most people pay a similar effective tax rate at the federal level - apart from those that make a lot more income or those who are mostly cap gains based rather then income...... Go figure.
12/24/2008 02:40:00 PM · #5
Originally posted by nemesise1977:

thats $20 a week more that people could spend on things like food orclothing or things tha will help the economey. while it may not seem as great as $1000 at one time it adds up the same. so if you want you could save back that $20 for the whole year build a little bit of intrest on it then blow it all at once


While this is a nice setiment, it's mostly unrealistic. $20 won't even be noticed especially since all the local governments are raising taxes to offset the shortfalls. It will just be absorbed somewhere else.
When I quit smoking I thought of all the money I would save. I can't to this date tell you where the money has went.
12/24/2008 02:48:03 PM · #6
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

When I quit smoking I thought of all the money I would save. I can't to this date tell you where the money has went.

I found that, when I quit smoking way back when, I had a lot more money for beer. Now it's gotten to the point where I am thinking of quitting drinking so I can afford my cocaine habit. In this economy, sacrifices must be made. :/
12/24/2008 03:01:41 PM · #7
I don't care what the amount. Anytime the gov wants to give me MY money back...I'm in.
12/24/2008 03:50:06 PM · #8
Me too. And I don't feel the least bit guilty about borrowing all this money from my future grandchildren. Heck, I'm bequeathing them my woody collection after all.
12/24/2008 11:48:27 PM · #9
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Originally posted by nemesise1977:

thats $20 a week more that people could spend on things like food orclothing or things tha will help the economey. while it may not seem as great as $1000 at one time it adds up the same. so if you want you could save back that $20 for the whole year build a little bit of intrest on it then blow it all at once


While this is a nice setiment, it's mostly unrealistic. $20 won't even be noticed especially since all the local governments are raising taxes to offset the shortfalls. It will just be absorbed somewhere else.
When I quit smoking I thought of all the money I would save. I can't to this date tell you where the money has went.

ok so it offsets the diff from local taxes, the main point is if people have more money to spend it usually helps the economy, its called bubble up economics and is in direct oposition of Reganomics that seem to keep ending in recessions
12/25/2008 12:20:34 AM · #10
Originally posted by nemesise1977:


ok so it offsets the diff from local taxes, the main point is if people have more money to spend it usually helps the economy, its called bubble up economics and is in direct oposition of Reganomics that seem to keep ending in recessions


We have a recession, or at least an economic downturn at the end of every presidency. Each president has certain plans, economic policies, PACs to pay back, etc and that benefits certain sectors of the economy. Reagan was a military spender, so that sector prospered. Clinton cut back on the military but was into health care, home ownership and education. Bush II is oil and wall street.

So the question of the day is, what is Obama gonna do? What area of the economy will prosper with him as president? Invest your money there and you too can be rich in 4 to 8 years!

Now he's not an oil man, says he's leaving Iraq - so oil and military are probably sectors that will decline. Will he do something with health care, and if so who will get rich off it? Someone always makes money. Will he do something to protect domestic manufacturing (cars etc)?

Will giving 50% or so of us $10 a week do much? I dont' know. The drop in the price of gas is having a MUCH more significant impact on me than anythiing the government can afford to do. In june a fill up ran me clost to $80. Last week it was $31. Do that 2 or 3 times a month times 2 cars and it's an easy $200 a month!

So where will teh extra money go? Back to where people first cut back - eating out maybe, driving more, more starbucks coffees?
12/25/2008 11:35:43 AM · #11
Originally posted by nemesise1977:

the main point is if people have more money to spend it usually helps the economy


never mind

Message edited by author 2008-12-25 11:37:13.
12/25/2008 11:40:32 AM · #12
Originally posted by SDW:

So the plan is put the money in the hands of people that make more money. Hummm, go plan! Not....


Right, because those of us who live above the poverty line...obviosly don't spend any money. We obviously aren't being hurt by the current economy, right?

I mean, if you make over 30k...why don't you just sit in your ivory tower and spank yourself happily with your gold bars. right?
12/25/2008 11:41:47 AM · #13
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

When I quit smoking I thought of all the money I would save. I can't to this date tell you where the money has went.

I found that, when I quit smoking way back when, I had a lot more money for beer. Now it's gotten to the point where I am thinking of quitting drinking so I can afford my cocaine habit. In this economy, sacrifices must be made. :/

haha. you can always make me laugh out loud.
12/25/2008 11:56:31 AM · #14
The government made some incorrect assumptions with their stimulus check program. They were putting thier attention on the low propensity to save that we have as a nation. This should've primed the cash cycle through the multiplier effect which would've allowed the stimulus checks to have many times their amounts in economic impact. The powers that be could've never forseen that Americans would do the responsible thing and pay down debt....

"We have a recession, or at least an economic downturn at the end of every presidency." I don't agree with this particular statement but the rest of Chris's point is viable.

except for....

"So where will teh extra money go? Back to where people first cut back - eating out maybe, driving more, more starbucks coffees?.."
These industries and pretty much are recession proof or have an inverse correlation with the economy

disclaimer: These are only my opinions as an economist...

12/25/2008 01:02:47 PM · #15
so they're giving back $140 Bil of the $700+ Bil they took to give to the banks. then the banks go ahead and raise the interest rates on the credit cards before the feds can pass new regulations to prevent that gouging from happening. on top of that there are no rules as to how these banks use the billions they were handed. they don't even have to disclose it to the feds...

sounds perfectly fair to me...


12/25/2008 06:33:02 PM · #16
Originally posted by egamble:

Originally posted by SDW:

So the plan is put the money in the hands of people that make more money. Hummm, go plan! Not....


Right, because those of us who live above the poverty line...obviosly don't spend any money. We obviously aren't being hurt by the current economy, right?

I mean, if you make over 30k...why don't you just sit in your ivory tower and spank yourself happily with your gold bars. right?

I feel you may have misunderstood my post or I did not articulate it properly. So I will try again. EVERYONE is hurting! My point - so are seniors on social security. They may not pay income tax to the degree a working individual does but they do pay some taxes but its not enough for them to see any stimulus money. They could use some of the stimulus money, purchase some of their needs and would be helping out the economy at the same time. If the current or upcoming administration feels a stimulus package is what is need. As far as I'm concerned I don't think the stimulus package(s) (Bush or Obama's) is going to help. We are borrowing to much money already. The feds are printing money with nothing to back it. It's will have consequences.

Message edited by author 2008-12-25 20:58:59.
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