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12/17/2008 08:33:05 AM · #1
I am just wondering if this is basic editing why a buttonized frame was allowed here but not on my Blue image from a few contests ago? I thought no vignetting was allowed in basic editing so I am a little confused.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/962/120/745864.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/962/120/745864.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Agnes

Message edited by author 2008-12-17 09:23:21.
12/17/2008 08:46:02 AM · #2
I don't know for sure but that border looks an awful lot like a border and looks nothing like a vignet was added to the image.

Your Blue image on the other hand is borderline, it is very hard to discern where the image ends and the border begins and it does appear to have some vignetting in the corners.

I think the key is that if it is a border it has to clearly be a border and cannot blend into the image in a way to appear like a vignet was added(recall they do look at the original and try to reproduce the image)

Message edited by author 2008-12-17 08:49:05.
12/17/2008 08:51:26 AM · #3
That's clearly not a vignette if you called it a border right? I don't think the actual border is allowed in basic because your applying blending options but it's clearly not a vignette.
12/17/2008 08:54:58 AM · #4
Originally posted by jhomrighaus:

I don't know for sure but that border looks an awful lot like a border and looks nothing like a vignet was added to the image.

Your Blue image on the other hand is borderline, it is very hard to discern where the image ends and the border begins and it does appear to have some vignetting in the corners.

I think the key is that if it is a border it has to clearly be a border and cannot blend into the image in a way to appear like a vignet was added(recall they do look at the original and try to reproduce the image)


Maybe you are right. The border in the pineapple image is less blurry then mine was and because the background is just white it doesnt vignet as much but a buttonized border is still a vignett because it affects the entire image no matter how blurry or not blurry you make it. So I just want to be sure if I use the buttonized feature again I do it like this entry person did and just make it look more hard then blurry or if any one can still use it at all since it does affect the whole image.

Message edited by author 2008-12-17 09:24:34.
12/17/2008 08:59:15 AM · #5
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

That's clearly not a vignette if you called it a border right? I don't think the actual border is allowed in basic because your applying blending options but it's clearly not a vignette.


Yes but when I used the same thing which is a buttonized frame (or border how ever you say it) it was diqualified for being a vignette. Mine was the same exact border but because my picture was a tight crop on the edges of a building the frame seemed to flow into the picture. This is just a white background so it makes it look like a frame here where I guess it didnt in mine? I just want to make sure I can use a buttonized frame again and I guess I can as long as I be careful of the picture I am putting it on?

Here is mine. You can see the edges are dark because the buttonized frame gives you the option of a more hard look or a more blurred look. Is that the difference between a vignet or is it the frame itself is a vignet? I guess that is the answer I am looking for.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/947/120/737575.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/947/120/737575.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Message edited by author 2008-12-17 09:04:17.
12/17/2008 09:09:55 AM · #6
Your border is not a distinctive border, where the other image was. A vignette is where you darken the edges of in image so that it blends and becomes part of the image. This is what you did to your image where as the other image is a plain and very distinctive border. That is why you were DQ'd for that.

You may:
add a border to the outside edge of your entry. Your border must be distinct and clearly recognizable as a border.

You may not:
use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as vignettes, lens flare or motion) that didn’t already exist in your original capture

By the looks of this I would say his border is allowed,
You may not:
use any selection tool, including but not limited to the marquee, lasso, layer masks, quick masks, or any similar tool to select a portion of your image for any reason other than cropping or creating a border.

Message edited by author 2008-12-17 09:10:47.
12/17/2008 09:10:37 AM · #7
Originally posted by limerick:

... Here is mine. You can see the edges are dark because the buttonized frame gives you the option of a more hard look or a more blurred look. Is that the difference between a vignet or is it the frame itself is a vignet? I guess that is the answer I am looking for.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/947/120/737575.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/947/120/737575.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Didn't this get bounced around in a forum (yep - What is a vignette?) after the DQ was issued also? (edited to insert thread link, and answer my own question)

The difference between your photo and the one in the OP are fairly substantial. The image by ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' boss351 in the OP looks clearly defined and borders the photo evenly. Your 'frame' does not look evenly distributed and appears to blend in more, yet shows a distinct darkening of the corners, really making it appear as a vignette.

For specifics on borders, the Basic Rules state: "You may - add a border to the outside edge of your entry. Your border must be distinct and clearly recognizable as a border".

ETA - Plus what ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Dirt_Diver said while I was writing this up. :-)

Message edited by author 2008-12-17 09:25:52.
12/17/2008 09:15:04 AM · #8
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by limerick:

... Here is mine. You can see the edges are dark because the buttonized frame gives you the option of a more hard look or a more blurred look. Is that the difference between a vignet or is it the frame itself is a vignet? I guess that is the answer I am looking for.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/947/120/737575.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/947/120/737575.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Didn't this get bounced around in a forum after the DQ was issued also?

The difference between your photo and the one in the OP are fairly substantial. The image by ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' boss351 in the OP looks clearly defined and borders the photo evenly. Your 'frame' does not look evenly distributed and appears to blend in more, yet shows a distinct darkening of the corners, really making it appear as a vignette.

For specifics on borders, the Basic Rules state: "You may - add a border to the outside edge of your entry. Your border must be distinct and clearly recognizable as a border".


Thank you glad2badad. I think that clears it up for me now. Yes I wondered before why it was disqualified at all and had a talk about it back then. I thought it was just using the buttonized frame that was wrong and not just how you use it. So as long as I use it in a way that makes it look like a hard frame I should be ok.

Thank you for your answers every one.

Agnes
12/17/2008 09:18:40 AM · #9
or to be really safe - don't use a buttonized border at all.


12/17/2008 09:19:04 AM · #10
BTW I would remove the other contestants name from your OP.
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum_rules.php Rules 10 and 11.

Yeah I know I should report the post but I don't see a need to.
12/17/2008 09:22:59 AM · #11
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

BTW I would remove the other contestants name from your OP.
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum_rules.php Rules 10 and 11.

Yeah I know I should report the post but I don't see a need to.

10 maybe, but 11? Nothing "hostile" there...
12/17/2008 09:23:53 AM · #12
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

BTW I would remove the other contestants name from your OP.
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum_rules.php Rules 10 and 11.

Yeah I know I should report the post but I don't see a need to.


OOoo sorry. So many rules. ;=) I removed it.
12/17/2008 09:25:48 AM · #13
Originally posted by soup:

or to be really safe - don't use a buttonized border at all.


Yes you are probably right. I will probably not bother.
12/17/2008 09:26:35 AM · #14
Originally posted by limerick:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

BTW I would remove the other contestants name from your OP.
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum_rules.php Rules 10 and 11.

Yeah I know I should report the post but I don't see a need to.


OOoo sorry. So many rules. ;=) I removed it.


That a boy, :)
12/18/2008 06:34:56 PM · #15
Wow, thanks guys. I thought I was going to have to jump in and defend myself. The boarder was about 15 or 20 pixels wide (can't remember)with a gradient fill. The backboard just has some shadows from the side and front lighting.
12/18/2008 07:19:34 PM · #16
Sorry to drag this one out, but I would have thought that border was illegal, I understood that all editing modes / layers had to stay in normal mode and any adjustment must be made to ALL pixels?

Unless I am missing something here?

ETA: I am talking about the pineapple shot ;)

ETA2: From the Basic Rules: YOU MAY: use filters or stand-alone utilities designed to preserve image integrity (such as Neat Image, Unsharp Mask, Dust & Scratches, and color correction tools). These filters must be applied uniformly to the entire image, and must not be used in such a way that their use becomes a feature. No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.

I'd say that gradient has become a feature hasn't it, and it could possibly be described as an effects filter?

Message edited by author 2008-12-18 19:24:38.
12/18/2008 07:23:47 PM · #17
Originally posted by Mark-A:

Sorry to drag this one out, but I would have thought that border was illegal, I understood that all editing modes / layers had to stay in normal mode and any adjustment must be made to ALL pixels?

Unless I am missing something here?

ETA: I am talking about the pineapple shot ;)


Actually it doesn't say that you can't do this, What it does say however is that as long as it's recognized as a border it's okay.
12/18/2008 07:25:11 PM · #18
Added a bit to my last post D_D that might be worth looking at.
12/18/2008 07:32:32 PM · #19
It also states

You may not:
use any selection tool, including but not limited to the marquee, lasso, layer masks, quick masks, or any similar tool to select a portion of your image for any reason other than cropping or creating a border.
12/18/2008 07:37:05 PM · #20
I can't see how that rule can override the one about applying filters / effects that alter the original image - if it just altered the border pixels maybe...

Not that I am overly bothered to be honest, it's just with all the fuss about the LydiaToo image this is something else that may come up again and again if not clarified.
12/18/2008 08:06:20 PM · #21
Originally posted by Mark-A:

I can't see how that rule can override the one about applying filters / effects that alter the original image - if it just altered the border pixels maybe...

Not that I am overly bothered to be honest, it's just with all the fuss about the LydiaToo image this is something else that may come up again and again if not clarified.


I don't know mate, I guess we need SC to intervene.
12/18/2008 08:22:40 PM · #22
speaking of vignettes, I think the consensus is that vignette cannot be added even in RAW conversion (I mean basic rules here, of course), correct? But another question is, can I reduce vignetting in RAW conversion, or it is also a violation of basic rules?

Message edited by author 2008-12-18 20:24:16.
12/18/2008 09:19:00 PM · #23
Very generally, if a border is clearly distinct and recognizable as a border, it will pass validation.

I'll re-echo Shannon from this previously mentioned thread:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Borders must be distinct and recognizable as borders. If you use ANY tool that makes it look like the edges of photo itself gradually get darker, it will be considered a vignette and DQ'd. Stick to simple, hard-edged borders in Basic and you'll be fine. Personally, I wish borders themselves were subject to the same editing rules as the image or limited to simple one or two color frames to reduce this sort of confusion. :-/


We have generally been pretty lenient with regard to borders in Basic. This subject has come up in SC discussions in the past with regard to actually requiring precise specifications on what kind of border can be used, but at the moment the guiding principle is that be clearly distinct and recognizable as a border.

12/18/2008 09:21:35 PM · #24
I need help!! Im not a "paid" member yet, so I cant post my own thread...but I need some help!!!
Im working on my second submission to this site. I have gone through two different tutorials on resizing my image..and I have followed them to the "T", but for some reason...I still cant get my image to stay inside the lines! (or in other words be 640pixels and under, but less than 150k!)
Someone help me please! I dont want my next image to be as small as my last!
Thanks!!
Sarah
12/18/2008 09:24:29 PM · #25
Originally posted by strongsarah524:

I need help!! Im not a "paid" member yet, so I cant post my own thread...but I need some help!!!
Im working on my second submission to this site. I have gone through two different tutorials on resizing my image..and I have followed them to the "T", but for some reason...I still cant get my image to stay inside the lines! (or in other words be 640pixels and under, but less than 150k!)
Someone help me please! I dont want my next image to be as small as my last!
Thanks!!
Sarah


Click here. Even if you don't have Photoshop, the steps in most software editing programs are essentially the same. Good luck in your next challenge! :)

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