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12/18/2008 03:56:47 PM · #201
I'm sorry to interrupt the thread.

Bokeh V
Votes: 99
Views: 150
Avg Vote: 4.5051
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0
12/18/2008 03:59:17 PM · #202
Originally posted by freakin_hilarious:

I would imagine if you wandered over to yospiff's portfolio and then looked at the images in Bokeh V again you'd be able to pick his out pretty easily. At that point you can probably see why he's getting a lot of comments.


Yup. Some of my entries are not anonymous anymore. But neither is that guy in the tooth fairy outfit.
12/18/2008 04:01:06 PM · #203
Originally posted by basssman7:

I think far to many people here have heard about "little points of light" which really has nothing at all to do with bokeh. Bokeh can have them, or not, they are not the definition of bokeh. sigh.

I thought a bokeh effect was a "pattern" in the background (or foreground) of a photo with a shallow DOF. If it's not that, what is it? If it's just shallow DOF, why have a special name for it?
12/18/2008 04:31:18 PM · #204
Votes: 109
Views: 153
Avg Vote: 4.9817
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 12/18/08 04:30 pm

Hundred-ish vote check-in...

I can ALMOST TASTE the 5!!!!! SO CLOSE!!!

12/18/2008 04:42:44 PM · #205
Is there any pizza left???
12/18/2008 04:52:01 PM · #206
Originally posted by pedrobop:

Originally posted by jhomrighaus:

Originally posted by electrolost:

I was looking through the entries and I am very suprised on how many enteries don't have bokeh in them..


I think this is the fundamental problem with this challenge, in order to evaluate the quality of a photo you first need to understand what the photographer was trying to accomplish. As was stated above almost all of the photos in the challenge have and use Bokeh, many of them use it in unusual ways to enhance the photo but unfortunately for them many people seem to think Bokeh is all about fuzzy circles and points of light which really does a major disservice to the concept.

Please share with us why you have made this statement. What do you think is Bokeh that is missing from these photos?


Well...i think "many" was a wrong word..But i agree that there are some pictures there almost don't have background, others that the background is just a little bit out of focus and have no aspects of a creamy background. I think circles of light is just a thing that happens in Bokeh and it's away from a condition, but makes a lot of people think that bokeh is all about that (in my first contact with bokeh i thought that). There are photos with the background too close from the object. I see none of this as Bokeh, that's what i think.


You know what?? I agree with you. I voted and got sick to the back teeth of Xmas trees with out of focus lights! I found some really good examples of Bokeh and some that had obviously tried to meet the challenge, they got good votes from me. Those with shallow DOF with pretty lights didn't. I am not going to defend my voting, just refer people back to other Bokeh challenges. Examine them, consider them and learn.
12/18/2008 04:55:31 PM · #207
Originally posted by incubus:

Is there any pizza left???


I hear there is a rock.
12/18/2008 05:18:55 PM · #208
100 or so vote weigh-in...

Votes: 104
Views: 148
Avg Vote: 5.0962
Comments: 2

I just slipped over the 5.1 mark earlier, but its dropped back again now... Thanks for the comments too guys!
12/18/2008 05:26:46 PM · #209
Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by basssman7:

I think far to many people here have heard about "little points of light" which really has nothing at all to do with bokeh. Bokeh can have them, or not, they are not the definition of bokeh. sigh.

I thought a bokeh effect was a "pattern" in the background (or foreground) of a photo with a shallow DOF. If it's not that, what is it? If it's just shallow DOF, why have a special name for it?


It is about the interaction between the background and the foreground, does the background reinforce the message the photographer was trying to send? Does it create drama or interest in the subject? Does the OOF area of the photo draw the viewer deeper into the photo?

It is not about the pattern or the shape or the distance to the background at all as some have implied A good use of Bokeh could just be something slightly out of focus just behind the main subject, it is about the way the subject and the OOF background(or foreground thought this is less common) interact with one another. Think harmony or fung-shei or those kinds of thoughts, it is an abstract concept about harmony, tension or dynamic interaction of the entire image.

These things describe the USE of Bokeh. there is a secondary consideration which is the quality of Bokeh which has to do with the way the lens renders the OOF areas of the image, is it Creamy smooth with soft even transisions or is it harsh and uneven. This is the QUALITY of Bokeh which in my opinion is a secondary consideration to the USE of Bokeh.

Now where did I leave my beer?

Message edited by author 2008-12-18 17:29:54.
12/18/2008 05:39:51 PM · #210
Originally posted by jhomrighaus:

Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by basssman7:

I think far to many people here have heard about "little points of light" which really has nothing at all to do with bokeh. Bokeh can have them, or not, they are not the definition of bokeh. sigh.

I thought a bokeh effect was a "pattern" in the background (or foreground) of a photo with a shallow DOF. If it's not that, what is it? If it's just shallow DOF, why have a special name for it?


It is about the interaction between the background and the foreground, does the background reinforce the message the photographer was trying to send? Does it create drama or interest in the subject? Does the OOF area of the photo draw the viewer deeper into the photo?

It is not about the pattern or the shape or the distance to the background at all as some have implied A good use of Bokeh could just be something slightly out of focus just behind the main subject, it is about the way the subject and the OOF background(or foreground thought this is less common) interact with one another. Think harmony or fung-shei or those kinds of thoughts, it is an abstract concept about harmony, tension or dynamic interaction of the entire image.

These things describe the USE of Bokeh. there is a secondary consideration which is the quality of Bokeh which has to do with the way the lens renders the OOF areas of the image, is it Creamy smooth with soft even transisions or is it harsh and uneven. This is the QUALITY of Bokeh which in my opinion is a secondary consideration to the USE of Bokeh.

Now where did I leave my beer?


Preach on brotha!
12/18/2008 05:51:09 PM · #211
100 vote check in...

Votes: 100
Views: 139
Avg Vote: 4.7400
Comments: 2

More pepperoni pizza please!!
12/18/2008 05:51:32 PM · #212
Originally posted by mikeee:

To anybody who has voted in the last hour and given out a 1, please go back and leave a comment why!

What is it with some people? If you don't understand photography don't vote on a photography site. If you do understand the art, please have the decency to leave a comment so I can learn from your awesome knowledge and experience because I'm obviously doing it all wrong. What was it you didn't like? The Bokeh? The focus? The exposure? The composition?

How the hell am I going to improve without the benefit of your expertise?

Edited to allow increased outrage to be adequately expressed.


IT WAS ME. YOUR PHOTO SUCKS!

There, you got your comment, happy? :D

.

.

.

.

j/k
12/18/2008 06:32:08 PM · #213
100ish vote check-in:

Votes: 104
Views: 146
Avg Vote: 5.5192
Comments: 4

Still sipping that beer. I don't think I'm in any danger of having it taken away.
12/18/2008 07:12:20 PM · #214
Why is it so quiet out here suddenly :)
12/18/2008 07:13:22 PM · #215
Votes: 109
Views: 183
Avg Vote: 3.3303
Comments: 12

More pizzas should be here shortly. I told the delivery driver to look for the large rock under the questionable bokeh. (By the way, who's paying?)
' . substr('//farm4.static.flickr.com/3280/2900524372_2d8c870b74_m.jpg', strrpos('//farm4.static.flickr.com/3280/2900524372_2d8c870b74_m.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
12/18/2008 07:37:10 PM · #216
I just got a 2. Pffftttt.

Is bokeh really that difficult a concept?

I LOVE bokeh and loved many of the images in the challenge, though I have to admit and I don't so much love Christmas ornaments with circles of light behind them. Though I suspect those are going to be the high scorers.

I'm not exactly starting to think, but rather continuing to think, perhaps it's not worth entering the challenges. I'm considering participating all by my lonesome just for the weekly challenge topics (but without actually submitting my entry). And no, this isn't intended to be one of those "I'm leaving DPC forever" posts, just me grumbling out loud.
12/18/2008 07:45:50 PM · #217
just stop caring about the scores people give you. I never agree with them anyways. Just use it for practice and if a challenge gives you a deeper understanding of how to do a certain thing then its all good.
12/19/2008 12:17:40 AM · #218
Originally posted by mindbottling:


I'm not exactly starting to think, but rather continuing to think, perhaps it's not worth entering the challenges. I'm considering participating all by my lonesome just for the weekly challenge topics (but without actually submitting my entry). And no, this isn't intended to be one of those "I'm leaving DPC forever" posts, just me grumbling out loud.


What is your alternative to learn? I once went camping for a weekend. Next to us in the camp was a professional photographer. I asked him a few questions about flash. Then he took me under his wing for the weekend. What I learned that weekend paid for the whole trip and put me on a different level.

But you know what? Before he started to help he looked at some of my photos and told my that they were crap. He carried on to tell me how they were wrong and why they were poor "snappies". At times he even seemed to loose patience with my poor compositions. This carried on for a day. I never felt threatened or disheartened. This guy was a pro and I was not and he was doing me a huge favour by spending all that time on me. I carried on the whole day with the little "assignments" he gave me. Then I took a photo and his comment was "that is better than mine". He carried on helping me and by the end of the weekend I was defenitely a better photographer.

DPC is the closest you will get to that. You get immediate feedback, you get to know what people think and often you get invaluable info from someone. There are some really good photographers on this site. Just look at the top photos of every competition. Whether you agree with the ranking or not - the top ones make it through and they are good enough to aspire to. They are from good photographers. It is really a priviledge to get them to comment on your photos - for free. And on top of that - you can usually go and get more detail if you like a photo. A lot of these very good ones will share their set-up and settings with you.

I want to learn and I am staying here and I am submitting as many photos as I can - score or no score
12/19/2008 12:29:04 AM · #219
I agree.

Participation is the key. Scores matter not, unless that is your sole purpose here. The diversity of style, technique, taste, intent is wonderful to see, great to share. If one of my images connects with others in the way I intended, better than any score. If I get feedback that helps me improve, better than any score. If a challenge deadline makes me get outta the office and go shooting, better than any score.

And getting to connect with and see the images crafted by so many people here, better than any score.

The community here, ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Posthumous's thread are worth the price of admission. Entering a challenge and pressing [Update] countless times a day is pure fun.

And sittin on a rock snarfin pizza with you lot--better than any score!

Message edited by author 2008-12-19 00:29:57.
12/19/2008 12:31:15 AM · #220
I just wish more of them would actually make comments on other than just the great photos.
12/19/2008 01:07:52 AM · #221
Originally posted by jhomrighaus:

I just wish more of them would actually make comments on other than just the great photos.


Exactly

I can get told "Oof" or "nice photo," but am I really learning from that? Am I supposed to be learning to take photos of water droplets (or Christmas ornaments) instead of what I choose as my subject? There are other sites where I participate that offer far more constructive comments than anything I have received here.

Perhaps what I have learned from the most is commenting on others' images. But I don't need to enter my own to do that nor do I need to pay $25.

Anyways, I'm not gone yet but one last *grumble*

Now I'm done whining.

12/19/2008 01:10:16 AM · #222
Do yourself a great favour and go to the top 10 photos of every competition and see what comments the photographer made when he/she submitted the photo. You will learn a lot and you will probably go away thinking "I really need to work a lot harder".
12/19/2008 03:39:26 AM · #223
I agree with everything you say!
Also it is worth the money to know that anytime day or night, there is someone out there to give advice, sympathy, prayers and most of all a laugh!
for me $25 = 250 rand and it is worth every cent.

Originally posted by chromeydome:

I agree.

Participation is the key. Scores matter not, unless that is your sole purpose here. The diversity of style, technique, taste, intent is wonderful to see, great to share. If one of my images connects with others in the way I intended, better than any score. If I get feedback that helps me improve, better than any score. If a challenge deadline makes me get outta the office and go shooting, better than any score.

And getting to connect with and see the images crafted by so many people here, better than any score.

The community here, ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Posthumous's thread are worth the price of admission. Entering a challenge and pressing [Update] countless times a day is pure fun.

And sittin on a rock snarfin pizza with you lot--better than any score!
12/19/2008 03:42:48 AM · #224
Maybe we should start putting DVWC (don't vote without comment) at the end of the title if we want a comment more than a score, or ACW (all coments welcome) if we want an honest and truthful debrief on the photo and won't react badly if we get one. There seems to be a lot of caution in giving advice in case it's not welcome.

Personally I don't care how critical somebody is of my work as long as they are critical.
12/19/2008 03:53:22 AM · #225
We must just remember that no-one owe us anything. If someone thinks your photo is bad he/she can give you a 1 and do not owe you an explanation. By scoring a 1, they are in fact leaving a comment. They are telling you that your photo is crap in their opinion. It is up to you to make the most of it.

As I told above - the biggest turnaround for me came one day when a pro told me to my face that my photos are crap. It stunned me and it opened my eyes. I am better off now.
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