So does Coldplay just steal their song ideas?

12/06/2008 11:34:32 AM · #1

If I could fly by Joe Satriani sounds very similar to Viva la Vida. And it is not the first time Coldplay has been accused of stealing melodies, just the first time they are being accused by somebody who can fight back.

Is Coldplay a fraud?

Marc923

12/06/2008 11:52:13 AM · #2

And Joe thinks so, too.

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

12/06/2008 11:57:56 AM · #3

I think that Joe will lose even though I think that there is definitely a case. I just think the 300lbs gorilla that is Coldplay will tear Joe up in court.

JMart

Nikon D80

12/06/2008 12:15:14 PM · #4

Almost nothing in IP law is a slam dunk, but this should be an easy case for Satriani's lawyers. On one hand, it's true that music tends to copy other music frequently without clear copyright violations, however, in this case it's WAY too obvious that Coldplay copied a trifecta of melody, harmony, and even rhythm. To top it all off, it's probably the most popular & recognizable part of both songs. Game over. There's no way Satriani is losing, even against a much better funded defense, unless his lawyers are inept.

I can just hear the defense now, "Uh, this is not copyright infringement because my clients didn't copy the whole song and they used the excerpt in question during their verse while Mr. Satriani clearly was using it in the Chorus, and furthermore, Mr. Satriani's material is performed in a different key, a perfect fourth higher than the defendants' music." OK, good luck cOLDplay (hmmm, smells like vanilla ice in here).

JMart

Nikon D80

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12/06/2008 12:19:48 PM · #5

Oh, and I forgot to add, that the Satriani excerpt is what earned Coldplay a great advertising spot.
(Sorry if I'm saying what's in the links already. I didn't read them as I have to run out the door but just wanted to add my two cents)

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

12/06/2008 01:00:22 PM · #6

I guess that several small bands have complained in the past that Coldplay was stealing their music, but they never had the authority to make any type of case at all. Most of the small bands probably don't have their work properly copy written anyway. I am beginning to think they are a fraud.

fldave

Pentax K5II

12/06/2008 01:03:52 PM · #7

Originally posted by JMart:

I can just hear the defense now, "Uh, this is not copyright infringement because my clients didn't copy the whole song

I believe you can copy 4 measures ver batim as long as you give credit to its' source. Coldplay just uses the 4 measures over and over and over... musicians all borrow riffs here and there, but this is pretty obvious.

ryand

Canon EOS-5D

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12/06/2008 01:22:31 PM · #8

There is a little bit that could be copied, but I don't see the big deal of taking a 15 second idea from someone and changing it to fit your song, not sure what the big deal is, seems like if you write a good song some people are gonna emulate it. You take a good picture, I don't think you'll be real offended is someone tries to emulate it. I'm usually flattered if someone is gonna try and copy an idea for a picture that I had. Now I can kind of see the point in that Coldplay kind of got credit with the idea, so I don't know maybe so.

I don't really blame Satriani, its a chance to get some money, but whatever, courts are in charge now. I'm just not real convinced that it is bad enough to consider fraud, I'm no law guru either though. Just my 2 cents.

GeneralE

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12/06/2008 01:29:28 PM · #9

Plagarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes

Remember why the Good Lord made your eyes

So just plagarize, plagarize, PLAGARIZE!

Only be sure always to call it, please, "research"

-Tom Lehrer, Lobachevski (1952-53)

fldave

Pentax K5II

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

12/06/2008 02:37:31 PM · #10

ryand, to borrow a musical phrase and use it in a new composition is fine and legal (fair use) just as "emulating" someone else's photo. BUT, to use the entire melody line would be the equivalent to me downloading one of your photos and selling it under my own name. It is theft, plain and simple. All artists value their own work and need to protect it.

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

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12/06/2008 02:52:57 PM · #11

In lots of IP cases it isn't about the money either. You'd be angry if somebody did as

fldave said, D/L'd your photo and began selling it and getting money. Like Tom Waits bringing suit against Opel, and donating the money to charity. He's actually had multiple successful IP suits, against behemoths like Levi's, Audi, and Frito Lay. All three suits centered around the company asking Waits for permission to use a song, then hiring an impersonator to sing a similar song after he refused.

icu1965

Sony DSLR-A200

Sony 75-300 mm f/4.5-5.6

12/06/2008 03:16:43 PM · #12

Wow! What's that saying about imitation and flattery? I'd be pissed too if someone stole my idea and gave me no credit, so good for Joe to do something about it.
I found this Youtube video where someone actually took the time to compare the two songs. Seems to me, all Satriani would have to do is play that video in front of a jury and win hands down.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

12/06/2008 03:38:51 PM · #13

Somewhat related and funny.

Rob Paravonian's rant against Pachelbel's Canon in D

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

12/06/2008 03:58:37 PM · #14

Originally posted by ryand:

You take a good picture, I don't think you'll be real offended is someone tries to emulate it. I'm usually flattered if someone is gonna try and copy an idea for a picture that I had.

I would be flattered if they didn't copy but instead were inspired to take my idea and expand on it to create something new and different. You know passing the torch.

Melethia

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Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/06/2008 04:08:51 PM · #15

Originally posted by yanko:

Somewhat related and funny.

Rob Paravonian's rant against Pachelbel's Canon in D

Very fun! And here's one that's had 52 million views, if the one you just watched doesn't have enough Canon in D for you...

//uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QjA5faZF1A8&NR=1

JaimeVinas

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12/06/2008 04:38:04 PM · #16

I always thought that coldplay's style sounds similar to U2

starrlite

Fujifilm FinePix S5700

12/06/2008 05:12:26 PM · #17

how about this..."song's I didn't write" by Creaky Boards. Written before coldplays tune.

//www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-77UgMJBH80I/creaky_boards_the_songs_i_didnt_write/

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

12/06/2008 05:34:55 PM · #18

Ya, that clears things up.

Basically they stole the verse from this song, and the melody chorus from Joe.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=77UgMJBH80I

Here is Joe's Song (same tempo and Chords and if you listen to the guitar riffs you get where Coldplay swiped the vocals melody).
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMcjXo8ZuqE

Here is Coldplays theft.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE&feature=related

BAMartin

Apple iPhone 5

12/06/2008 05:46:47 PM · #19

Herew is a direct comparison between the two songs. Interesting

Blue Moon

Canon EOS-40D

12/06/2008 06:03:39 PM · #20

The same idea can emerge out of two different parties. I do think that is is a pretty close relationship, but I don't think Joe will win this one.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

12/06/2008 06:10:45 PM · #21

I forgot did the Rolling Stones win a copyright suit over The Verve for their song "Bitter Sweet Symphony" or did they settle out of court? I remember at the time I could barely hear the similarities unlike in this case with Cold Play.

jdannels

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12/06/2008 06:20:23 PM · #22

Originally posted by yanko:

From what I remember, The Verve only sampled the violin section from a rare recording of the Stones(I forget which song.). The Verve asked for permission and were denied and used it anyway. Now the Rolling Stones get all royalties from the song.

Message edited by author 2008-12-06 18:21:04.

JMart

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12/06/2008 07:10:23 PM · #23

Originally posted by fldave:

Originally posted by JMart:
I can just hear the defense now, "Uh, this is not copyright infringement because my clients didn't copy the whole song

I believe you can copy 4 measures ver batim as long as you give credit to its' source. Coldplay just uses the 4 measures over and over and over... musicians all borrow riffs here and there, but this is pretty obvious.

Sorry, but it's not that cut & dry. There is no set number of measures or length of time that is OK to copy without permission. An IP cases like this will depend on context and how important the part copied is to the work in question. Coldplay's work depended heavily on Satriani's ideas and that is enough (even if it's only 1 measure) to lose a case like this.

Originally posted by ryand:

The "little bit" that was copied is key to the success of the COldplay song and was featured in an Apple iTunes commercial. If they really couldn't create their own work without taking Satriani's ideas then they should have made arrangements ahead of time with Satriani and paid him for his creative WORK instead of just stealing it.

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/06/2008 07:14:08 PM · #24

Originally posted by jdannels:

Originally posted by yanko:
I forgot did the Rolling Stones win a copyright suit over The Verve for their song "Bitter Sweet Symphony" or did they settle out of court? I remember at the time I could barely hear the similarities unlike in this case with Cold Play.

From what I remember, The Verve only sampled the violin section from a rare recording of the Stones(I forget which song.). The Verve asked for permission and were denied and used it anyway. Now the Rolling Stones get all royalties from the song.

Thats right, the stones get 100% of anything that song earns.. good song though.

Tez