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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> A Bummer of a DQ
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 12/03/2008 01:10:49 PM · #1
I am so upset! My son's ringostarr entry just got DQ'ed from the SuperPowers Challenge. Totally my (and my software's) fault. Apparently, we are still in the dark ages using iPhoto. I always grab my originals from an originals folder that is kind of, sort of hidden on my hard drive. It has always worked before. I don't save, but always delete, originals off my memory card after downloading. Well to make a long story short, when I went to retrieve his original, the folder name had changed from "originals' to 'data'. I'm not sure why. I thought this was strange, but submitted it anyway (it looked just like the original.) Well, apparently it wasn't & he got DQ-ed. I even got Apple tech support on the phone & they said that you should never get originals form that 'locked' folder, and it can really screw things up if that folder's modified in any way. I guess I've just been lucky up til this point, but I feel so bad that this happened on his entry (and not mine). It was a totally awesome shot! And also, I hate to have fellow D-Per's think Ian violated the rules in some way.

I don't think there's any way to get the original at this point ... If anyone's still in the dark ages using iPhoto & has a suggestion, I'd welcome it. I already Rebuilt the iPhoto library per Apple tech & that didn't chnage anything. Thanks!!! Oh, and I just ordered Lightroom and hope this will be the answer to better photo archiving and retrieving from this point forward. thanks for listening. :)
 12/03/2008 01:17:14 PM · #2
You can try using file-recovery software to recover the original from the card -- if it's not been over-written the data may still be there, even if you "erased" the card.

The key is to not use any software except the OS to transfer the files from the card to the hard drive. I burn all originals to CD before I erase them from the card, so that I always have an unaltered (and unalterable) version somewhere.

Message edited by author 2008-12-03 13:19:22.
 12/03/2008 01:17:22 PM · #3
Have you tried recovering the deleted data from the memory card?

12/03/2008 01:27:52 PM · #4
Have you tried recovering the deleted data from the memory card?

I've never tried to do that before. Is it pretty straight forward? Does it work if it was a couple of shoots ago?
 12/03/2008 01:28:42 PM · #5
ah that sucks. but yeh, do what Mick said
 12/03/2008 01:29:02 PM · #6
Originally posted by stevieian:
Have you tried recovering the deleted data from the memory card?

I've never tried to do that before. Is it pretty straight forward? Does it work if it was a couple of shoots ago?


it pretty much pulls up every photo you've ever taken.
 12/03/2008 01:30:22 PM · #7
I'll try it . Just hook my card back up and ...?

12/03/2008 01:40:51 PM · #8
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:
Originally posted by stevieian:
Have you tried recovering the deleted data from the memory card?

I've never tried to do that before. Is it pretty straight forward? Does it work if it was a couple of shoots ago?


it pretty much pulls up every photo you've ever taken.


This is not true. No recovery program can get data back on a memory card deeper than, generally, two or three over-writes. Most usually can't even go deeper than one.
 12/03/2008 01:41:23 PM · #9
Originally posted by stevieian:
I'll try it . Just hook my card back up and ...?


go download a data recovery program. i have a good one at my house, cant remember the name though. if you cant find a good one, send me a PM and ill let you know the name of mine
 12/03/2008 01:42:20 PM · #10
I'm having a hard time finding one for Mac OSX ...
 12/03/2008 01:43:01 PM · #11
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:
Originally posted by stevieian:
Have you tried recovering the deleted data from the memory card?

I've never tried to do that before. Is it pretty straight forward? Does it work if it was a couple of shoots ago?


it pretty much pulls up every photo you've ever taken.


This is not true. No recovery program can get data back on a memory card deeper than, generally, two or three over-writes. Most usually can't even go deeper than one.


huh. well, i guess i got a good one then. ive tried a few diff programs, the last one i used recovered every freaking image id ever taken on that card and conveniently dumped them all on my desktop(that was a real mess, i wsnt specific as to where i wanted them and them ended up there:/)
 12/03/2008 01:43:42 PM · #12
Originally posted by stevieian:
I'm having a hard time finding one for Mac OSX ...


ooo i dont have a Mac...hmm
 12/03/2008 01:44:43 PM · #13
Try looking at Download.com (cNet.com) -- they have pretty much everything out there. If you can run Windows on your (Intel) Mac, you could probably use a PC program, like PC Inspector. Or maybe see if you can "borrow" a PC for this purpose.
 12/03/2008 01:45:22 PM · #14
Originally posted by stevieian:
I'm having a hard time finding one for Mac OSX ...

Look no further than your email. ;-)
 12/03/2008 01:46:30 PM · #15
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:


huh. well, i guess i got a good one then. ive tried a few diff programs, the last one i used recovered every freaking image id ever taken on that card and conveniently dumped them all on my desktop(that was a real mess, i wsnt specific as to where i wanted them and them ended up there:/)


granted, I haven't tried to use one for awhile, maybe they've gotten much better. Interesting
 12/03/2008 01:53:19 PM · #16
you are awesome Shannon. It seems to be working. Now the question is, once all images are downloaded, and i'm lucky enough to find the one I need, where/who do I send it to here (since he's already been DQ-ed)??

Thanks again!!!!
 12/03/2008 01:57:36 PM · #17
oh missed this thread until now, I wish you the best of luck!!! DQs suck, especially ones like this!
 12/03/2008 02:26:29 PM · #18
if you aren't very technical, this probably won't help, but I wrote one last weekend, because I had a similar problem on my mac and no internet access at the time. Someone also posted a link to a more robust open source recovery tool in the comments that might be worth a look.

//www.fivecomputers.com/2008/12/image-recovery.html
 12/03/2008 03:14:11 PM · #19
Problem solved! I was able to recover the original file from the memory card with recovery software (Image rescue 3). Thanks to all for your help!
 12/03/2008 03:18:25 PM · #20
Originally posted by Ringostarr:
Problem solved! I was able to recover the original file from the memory card with recovery software (Image rescue 3). Thanks to all for your help!


That Ringo or Stevian speaking? Jejeje™ Either way, good news...

R.

Message edited by author 2008-12-03 15:47:10.
 12/03/2008 03:25:48 PM · #21
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:
Originally posted by stevieian:
Have you tried recovering the deleted data from the memory card?

I've never tried to do that before. Is it pretty straight forward? Does it work if it was a couple of shoots ago?


it pretty much pulls up every photo you've ever taken.


This is not true. No recovery program can get data back on a memory card deeper than, generally, two or three over-writes. Most usually can't even go deeper than one.


huh. well, i guess i got a good one then. ive tried a few diff programs, the last one i used recovered every freaking image id ever taken on that card and conveniently dumped them all on my desktop(that was a real mess, i wsnt specific as to where i wanted them and them ended up there:/)


Could some really smart tech person explain this to me? How does a 4 GB card that has has been filled 4 times(for example), still have 16GB of images? I'm not doubting anyone, just looking to understand. And, is there a difference between formatting a card in camera and deleting the images.

I recently formatted the first card from a two card shoot and lost all of the pictures-I didn't try to recover them because we had plenty of good ones from the second card to choose from. I figured a format wipes out all of the data. Enlighten me please!
 12/03/2008 03:33:56 PM · #22
Even after format you can recover files. What you recover will depend on what's been written in the same location on the card. I don't know how many times it has to be overwritten before it's totally gone though. The fewer overwrites will give you a greater chance of success.
 12/03/2008 03:35:24 PM · #23
Originally posted by mpeters:
I recently formatted the first card from a two card shoot and lost all of the pictures-I didn't try to recover them because we had plenty of good ones from the second card to choose from. I figured a format wipes out all of the data. Enlighten me please!


The disk has a table at the start that basically lists where all of the pictures are stored on the card. It says if the space is free or not. Formatting in camera is typically a 'quick' format - which just updates this table to say all of the space is free.

The actual images are still there, on the disk - the card just knows that the space is available and they can be overwritten.

So even after you format a card, all of the images are still there, if you use something to recover them that knows to ignore what the table says about the space, and actually goes and looks at the bits that are on the card.

Even when you fill a card with images, there are is actually quite a bit of space that doesn't get used, images can slip in between those cracks so to speak.

A slow format actually takes a lot longer, and actually writes a 0 to every location on the disk. You don't typically do this for flash cards, but might well for a hard drive.

There's a whole other world of really low level image recovery, that can claim to tell what the previous values of a particular location where and recover data based on that, but the software image recovery tools can't do that, afaik. As a result, military grade formatting and data erasing algorithms require each bit on the disk to be written multiple times with a variety of patterns that obscure data even from these really low level recovery techniques. Then everything gets put inside a large magnet to further corrupt the drive.

ETA: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery has more info. The code I linked to earlier and most of the for profit recovery tools all pretty much just do data carving from what I can tell, when it comes to recovering photos from digital media. That's also why it is a good practice to always format in camera before using a drive and never delete images in camera, if you can avoid it.

Message edited by author 2008-12-03 15:43:00.
 12/03/2008 03:48:07 PM · #24
Thanks! I guess it makes sense on a technical level but practically speaking, it seems odd that data can be recovered after a card has been 'filled' multiple times. I know a 4GB card isn't completely full when the camera says, but there isn't much memory left, is there? And I expect it would be random selection of images from any previous shoot that might be recoverable.

Glad you found your original, Ringo!
 12/03/2008 04:12:04 PM · #25
Originally posted by mpeters:
I know a 4GB card isn't completely full when the camera says, but there isn't much memory left, is there? And I expect it would be random selection of images from any previous shoot that might be recoverable.


I've always been surprised at the stuff recovered when I've ran software like this on a 'full' card.

I don't fully understand the allocation policies used, but I know it is only recovering the actual bits on the disk, not areas that have been overwritten at all. There's also the potential that it is recovering data from sectors on the drive that are no longer in active use - some of the CF cards. As the cards age, areas of the disk get actively switched out of use by the disk controller on the card - maybe some of the smarter software does recovery on those parts of the disk too.
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