Advice needed for gig (Drum Show at a bar/pub)

11/26/2008 09:05:30 AM · #1

Hello all,

I've got a first photography gig on Friday night shooting a drum show in a bar and I'm looking for some advice, no doubt. It all started when I took some phtotos of a co-worker's sister fire-dancing a few months ago:

Turns she also plays a tam-tam as a part of a group and as she was really happy with the fire photos, she told me that she would eventually want to hire my services for an evening to get some pictures of her and her group playing.

I've never taken any pictures in a bar setting and I'm not sure that I'll be able to go check out the place before Friday - though I will be able to get there on Friday evening for around 7ish while the show starts at 9.

I'm planning on going equipped with the following:

-D200
-17-55 f2.8
-2 flashes & stands (with the possibility of adding another to the list)
-flash gels for balancing the light

They're a group of 5 on the drums/tam-tams. Also, I know that my co-worker's sister is going to be doing some dancing (unfortunately only with "light-balls" as opposed to fire poi). I'm assuming there are going to be spot-lights on them during the show.

So I'm going into this somewhat blind in the sense that I've never done anything like this before and I'm only going to get to see the place about 2 hrs before the show starts.

Alright, here's the part where I ask for advice. Basically anything that you guys could tell me would be greatly appreciated. I've got until Friday to ask questions, so I'm hoping to ask more specific questions as opposed to simply asking "What kind of photos are you looking for?"

I've attached the poster that they're currently using - they're looking no doubt to improve on this.

Thanks!

11/26/2008 11:58:15 AM · #2

blip

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/26/2008 04:07:01 PM · #3

bloop

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

11/26/2008 04:24:05 PM · #4

So are they playing to an audience while you are shooting? If so, I'd think you can forget the flashes and stands. The flash kills any ambience from the bar anyway. I'd think about going with the fastest lens you have like your 50mm/1.4, crank up to 1600 ISO and shoot without a flash. Now, I've only ever shot in a bar once so take everything I say with a large grain of salt. Still, i think you are going to get harsh shadows with the flashes and annoyed bar patrons/band members.

Haha, 2nd challenge entry ever for me:

lentil

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

11/26/2008 04:24:17 PM · #5

if you have a look at my site at my site and click on portraits and events...go to client section and the password is miramare (theres a few to get through before you get to the drumming part) lol actually image 158 is where the drummers start

These guys were fantastic drummers and got the whole crowd of 200 people drumming along with them. My advice to you is just feel the energy of it, have some fast glass on and just enjoy it!. It will blow your mind. All I used was the 70-200 and flash.

These type of performers usually want themselves in action and they usually play up for the camera too... send me a PM if you have any questions and good luck!

Message edited by author 2008-11-26 16:28:54.

Mephisto

Nikon Coolpix A

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

11/26/2008 04:51:47 PM · #6

oh my the poster looks horrible indead! lol
maybe you can offer your service for a make over on that poster as well for some extra cash...
your equipment looks good, but i agree that if it's a live gig in a bar you should skip the stands (would be ok on a big stage), but have a flash in case it's really dark. if the bar has a bright ceiling you can always use it for bouncing your flash to ligthen up the audience for cool atmospheric shots (remember to balance the flash and ambience light). ask the band if it's ok for you to take some shots from behind and the side of the stage/band. for that matter your 17-50 might not be wide enough tho, so i suggest you try to get your hand on a fisheye or at least something in a 10/12mm rage on the wide end.
good luck and most of all: ENJOY! ;)

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

11/26/2008 07:33:33 PM · #7

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

They are indeed going to be playing to an audience and as far as I know it's a pretty small place. Hopefully I'll have some pictures of the place tomorrow (taken by my co-worker) - it'll give me a better idea of whether flashes are an option or not (for ex. bounce flash) as I haven't completely given up on them yet.

Originally posted by lentil:

All I used was the 70-200 and flash. These type of performers usually want themselves in action and they usually play up for the camera too... send me a PM if you have any questions and good luck!

Thanks for the link to your website - you really captured the cheerful ambience of the drum show in your shots. One quick questions: was the flash on-camera or off?

Originally posted by Mephisto:

...so i suggest you try to get your hand on a fisheye or at least something in a 10/12mm rage on the wide end.
good luck and most of all: ENJOY! ;)

I've got the sigma 10-20 that I'm planning on bringing but it kinda scares me for people shots - I'm yet to get anything usable with that lens that includes a person, we'll see though.

Thanks for the posts so far guys! Like I said, any advice is greatly appreciated as the more feedback I get, the better I could prepare for this rather intimidating ordeal. Fortunately they're not paying me much as their budget is pretty low ($50), so the stress level isn't too high, but of course I want to do as good a job as I could!

lentil

Canon EOS-5D

11/27/2008 12:38:56 AM · #8

It was on the camera :)

david1707

Nikon D90

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Nikon

11/27/2008 06:07:21 AM · #9

I got to shoot Scott Stapp (lead singer of Creed) when he came to our post. It was pretty dark in the gym where he played. I didn't want to use flash, but so many others where I put the SB-600 on fill and shot away. I was using a 70-300 VR lens and was right up front. I would have prefered to be back more but they let the crowd right up to the stage. You can see the photos on My Site under galleries/events. There is a local band I shot in there also, but it was outdoors and I still had some ambient light. The Scott Stapp shoot was WAY too FUN. Enjoy the music, get into it with the crowd, hand out business cards (wink).

Message edited by author 2008-11-27 06:08:20.

11/27/2008 07:16:38 PM · #10

Originally posted by david1707:

Thanks for the link to your site. You got some good stuff in there! I'm definitely hopeful that I'll be able to get some similar stuff - we'll see tomorrow!

11/27/2008 07:26:10 PM · #11

Alright, I got my co-worker's sister to take some shots of the bar where they'll be playing - which should prove useful here!

As far as I know, they'll be setting up the stage in front of the windows (approx 20 feet wide). It appears (from one of the photos) that there is a large red curtain that I'm ssuming they'll be covering the windows with. If not, there's going to be trouble!!

Either way, I'm attaching 3 shots of the place - two of the width of where the stage is going to be, and one showing the ceiling and spot-lights they will be using. It looks small enough that I'll be fine using my 17-55..

1) So of course I've ruled out any ceiling bounce flash, but if I could set up a flash on each side of the stage, I think that would be ideal for some fill.
2) Is anyone familiar with these types of spot-lights - mainly if it's possible to shoot usable photos with a 2.8 under a couple of these things? Also, what kind of flash filter should I be using to balance these if they were theoretically white?

Once again, any advice is really appreciated - it's the first time I'll be doing something like this, and the more opinions I hear, the better!
Thanks!!

Message edited by author 2008-11-27 19:26:43.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/27/2008 08:55:21 PM · #12

I really should have written Advice needed for PHOTOSHOOT huh?

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

11/27/2008 09:07:25 PM · #13

I'd advise changing your camera to spot-meter if it isn't there already. You might get some properly exposed shots at 2.8 at a high ISO with the lights, but chances are you would need faster if you aren't using flash. If you are, then it all depends on your flashes, eh?

Another possiblity is to shoot RAW and underexpose by a stop to get an even faster shutter speed to freeze the action. You probably want to shoot about 1/125th at least. You can push the shot later although you are going to deal with noise them, especially with a high ISO.

Dealing with WB with two temperatures of light (Kliegs and flash) is problematic at best. You don't necessarily want a true white because sometimes the color of the spots adds to the ambience of the shot. It would be another reason to shoot in RAW so you can control the WB yourself later.

If you really want to use your flashes, what about asking the band to stay after the set and shoot them playing a song when there are less people around? Just a thought.

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Nikon

11/27/2008 09:16:31 PM · #14

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Thanks for the advice, Jason. I didn't realize RAW was that much more 'powerful' than jpg - I was planning on shooting raw anyway for greater ease with the PP, but now even more reason to do so.

Flashes before and after the show definitely make sense as well, I'll see how things go on that front.

And in terms of the lights, I'm fully aware that the kliegs are what create the abience. I was simply curious what type of gel would be used to achieve the same 'white' from the two light sources (given that the klieg was shining white light to begin with).

Last, but not least - I never knew americans used the word eh.. you learn something new everyday it seems.

david1707

Nikon D90

11/28/2008 03:20:53 AM · #15

For the photos of Scott Stapp I had my camera on spot metering and had the WB set to auto because of all the different lighting. Like the doctor said, you can adjust later if you shoot in RAW. My ISO was set to 800 on most of the shots, they all have the exif data intact on them. Flash was set to auto and fill and aimed dead straight, no bounce. If you don't plan on using flash you can adjust your auto iso to kick up to a higher one if you are shooting on appeture priotity. Set the appeture wide open and have it set to kick up, at the lowest, 1/60. My lens I used only goes down to f4 at 70mm and it has a vibration reduction which gives me about an extra 2 stops. If you can get into the bar during their rehersal you can get some test shots in the light.

labuds

Nikon D800

11/28/2008 02:18:42 PM · #16

Throw out your D200, or just give it to charity, and swing by to pick up my D700 on your way there. (and the 24-70, and 17-35)
You can set it to auto-ISO with a shutter of 1/125 and even your ISO 6400 images will look fantastic.
I'd also setup two inconspicuous flashes on the sides of the stage to get a few crisp images if the lighting ends up been really dark the whole night.. don't forget to set one to group A and the other to group B. That way you can actually control both remotely. White balance them to incandescent. However, i'd use ambient light most of the time if it's around...

labuds

Nikon D800

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Nikon

11/28/2008 02:22:49 PM · #17

oh, and i hardly ever spot meter for this type of shoot. I typically change the EV compensation depending on the contrast of the lighting.

At the NIN concert i was typically shooting below -1EV, and sometimes below -3EV. You can actually see my settigns if you click on "full exif"

david1707

Nikon D90

11/29/2008 04:02:13 AM · #18

Originally posted by labuda:

For as far back as you were I think spot wouldn't be good either. But in a bar, close up, I still think spot or center weighted would work better.

cdrice

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

11/29/2008 05:10:38 AM · #19

I recommend this thread (which I reference to save myself lots of typing, as I already did a lot of typing in that thread; ;) this thread (dated, but all very relevant, if a rather long read...) and this article/tutorial.

I believe the D200 has virtually the same sensor as my D80. Thus, I'll agree with some other comments here that you'll be better off with a D300 or D700 if you can buy/borrow/steal one for the night. I try not to push my D80 beyond iso 800 whenever possible, as that 640->800 range is the "sweet spot" of where uncorrectable noise begins to appear for our sensor.

Either suck up the noise, or suck up the slow shutter... or get a D300/700 with a better sensor. I can't afford the camera upgrade yet, so I just deal with what I've got the best I can. Makes it more challenging, I think -- and by the time I do upgrade to a better sensor, I'll have my technique so tight I shutter (har har) to think what I'll be able to do with crazy-high iso...

My other ramblings/opinions -- raw, tungsten WB, manual, EV comp -1.3, spot meter, leave your lens wide open and adjust iso and shutter for exposure, check your view finder and histograms often (if you're not used to it, review what low-key histograms should look like ahead of time). Forget the flashes. You'll have enough else on your mind if this situation is new to you to deal with flash.

And, although I mention it in one of the threads above, it's worth repeating -- STAY OUT OF THE WAY. A good concert photographer is virtually invisible. Remember if you have a great sight-line... you're probably blocking someone else's view.

AJSullivan

12/02/2008 12:06:06 PM · #20

Here are some live music shots I did in a bar last friday night:

Black Friday Hardcore Show