Remove My Tutorials - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/19/2004 08:29:03 PM · #276

Originally posted by tfaust:

Originally posted by nborton:

because there is no ribbon involved no one cares. that's why when it gets right down to it, people are mad that they were beaten. if people were so for "photography integrity" then you would have to be against this picture as well.

I love this 'image' or 'piece of art'. I think it takes some great talent to produce this. Do I know how to do it? No... Am I mad that Kiwi did it and posted it here because I don't know how to? No. Would I be upset if it were posted in a challenge (where photographic integrity is to be maintained and multi image compositions are against the rules) as a photograph and won a ribbon? Yes... why?

This is clearly against the rules. As are some of the other winning photos. This is no longer a 'photograph' holding 'photographic intergrity'. It is 'Digital Art'. (And Damn Good Digital Art if I may say so again).

I don't think the problem here is people creating digital art, but rather submitting that into the challenges.

I honestly think it has less to do with people mad because they were beaten and more to do with breaking of the rules.

i posted all that because there are a lot of people who have said the feel "cheated" because they thought the pictures were not manipulated. if that's the case you should feel cheated by every digital art pic that you thought was real at first.

i understand the feeling of being upset because you feel the spirit of the rules was broken. i have no problem with that.

goinskiing

Canon EOS-6D

04/19/2004 08:31:00 PM · #277

Originally posted by tfaust:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Move to the UK - we all live in them there.

Don't ya live in Texas.. ? :-)

HAHAHA!!! Busted! ;)

Message edited by author 2004-04-19 20:31:44.

nborton

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/19/2004 08:34:47 PM · #278

gordon's not from the US originally.

goinskiing

Canon EOS-6D

04/19/2004 08:36:17 PM · #279

Originally posted by nborton:

gordon's not from the US originally.

Ah ha! I see!

tfaust

Canon EOS 80D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/19/2004 08:44:39 PM · #280

Originally posted by nborton:

gordon's not from the US originally.

Ahhh, ok :-)

dsmil

Olympus E-510

04/19/2004 08:44:43 PM · #281

Photographers must now realize they also need to become artists.

Digital photography has revolutionized the art. No longer do you need expensive equipment, elaborate backgrounds, wasting expensive film during trial and error...photoshop and digital cameras allows amateurs to create quality previously reserved for the professionals.

Professionals will have to raise their standards and that is good for all.

A picture speaks for itself. It does not matter how it was taken or whether it was digital, film, editted in photoshop or in a darkroom.

The final product is what counts.

nborton

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

04/19/2004 08:50:25 PM · #282

Originally posted by dsmil:

some people are complaining that PS is too expensive and thats whats holding them back.

however, what's really holding them back is what's behind the camera.

Message edited by author 2004-04-19 20:54:37.

dsmil

Olympus E-510

04/19/2004 08:54:51 PM · #283

some people are complaining that PS is too expensive and thats whats holding them back.

however, what's really holding them back is what behind the camera. [/quote]

Try //www.gimp.org its free and its good.
But what really matters is the relationship between photographer and subject. No software or technology can replace that.

muckpond

Nikon D200

04/19/2004 09:16:36 PM · #284

Originally posted by kathleenm:

Yes, this thread absolutely was a call to the minions to rally round and beg. What I'm glad to see is that the names I recognize (magnetic9999, muckpond, karenb, generale, gordon) have managed to still remain voices of reason even though their talent is equal or greater to the thread originator's.

i don't think i've ever EVER been referred to as a "voice of reason" before.

can i email this whole thread to my gramma? man, she'd be proud!

TerryGee

Canon EOS-30D

04/19/2004 09:22:35 PM · #285

Originally posted by orussell:

Originally posted by kathleenm:
I've been here for quite a while. Haven't posted to any challenges lately because I seem to have lost my spark, but I still enjoy the site.

For the record, I'm not a fan of advanced editing, but I've flexed when the site flexed and bent when the site bent. Everything is in a state of flux, to expect it to be to your liking at all times is unrealistic.

What is interesting to me is the incredible, exploding ego that a certain member has enjoyed. Of course it must feel great to have people place you on a pedestal and believe that all photography knowledge can be learned at your feet. But the arrogance I've seen in the past year is out of proportion - although if you look at the posterior smooching that's gone on, maybe it's not.

Yes, this thread absolutely was a call to the minions to rally round and beg. What I'm glad to see is that the names I recognize (magnetic9999, muckpond, karenb, generale, gordon) have managed to still remain voices of reason even though their talent is equal or greater to the thread originator's.

My God, did you read my mind or something?

She must have read yours at the same time she read mine :)

jodiecoston

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

04/19/2004 09:38:07 PM · #286

Originally posted by TerryGee:

Originally posted by orussell:

Originally posted by kathleenm:
I've been here for quite a while. Haven't posted to any challenges lately because I seem to have lost my spark, but I still enjoy the site.

For the record, I'm not a fan of advanced editing, but I've flexed when the site flexed and bent when the site bent. Everything is in a state of flux, to expect it to be to your liking at all times is unrealistic.

What is interesting to me is the incredible, exploding ego that a certain member has enjoyed. Of course it must feel great to have people place you on a pedestal and believe that all photography knowledge can be learned at your feet. But the arrogance I've seen in the past year is out of proportion - although if you look at the posterior smooching that's gone on, maybe it's not.

Yes, this thread absolutely was a call to the minions to rally round and beg. What I'm glad to see is that the names I recognize (magnetic9999, muckpond, karenb, generale, gordon) have managed to still remain voices of reason even though their talent is equal or greater to the thread originator's.

My God, did you read my mind or something?

She must have read yours at the same time she read mine :)

And I was just thinking the same thing...

PhilipDyer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/19/2004 09:41:59 PM · #287

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

My request has been honored and I appreciate the site admins for it.

To the site admins and site council:

Good luck with your decisions and guidance :)

John Setzler

First of all, thanks, John, for posting such helpful tutorials in the first place. I am just starting to become serious about photography and your descriptions of how you captured such amazing images has been invaluable.

I used to run a site almost this size, and I don't envy the task that the admins have to undertake in order to resolve such a controversial issue to everyone's satisfaction. While people on either side of the fence may find the issue very straightforward and easy to resolve, it takes a lot of diplomacy and consideration to try and include everyone's opinion in the final decision of how the site sould evolve when issues like this crop up.

Personally, I do agree that introducing new elements into a photo in post-production is a whole different kind of art form than a raw photograph or one that has just been cleaned up a bit. For the sake of competition, those two types of submissions probably do belong in different categories, and it seems that the site admins are making efforts toward that end or something similar. But in general I think we're all just here to do our best to create beautiful and stimulating images in the best way we know how. Anyone who is doing that in any form has, FWIW, my full support and respect.

This site is a great resource that has been tremendously helpful in getting me started with my own efforts in photography, and I want to thank everyone who has participated in its creation and support. I'm looking forward to sticking around awhile and submitting some images of my own.

Thanks!
Philip

Tranquil

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Sigma 105mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Canon

04/19/2004 09:45:11 PM · #288

OK..well I have spent the last two hours scrutinizing and analyzing every single reply to the thread and this is what I have come up with.

Firstly, and most obviously, Mr. John Setzler did not just randomly decide to publicly say that he was removing his tutorials, there was some intent behind it which has led to a 240+ reply thread.

I am a thirteen-year-old (pending fourteen and legal access to the site) and I am an amateur nothing photographer. I agree with some of the things previously posted...

One of these things is that in the month that I have been acquainted with the site I have learned a heck of a a lot. When I was eleven I got a Minolta 8000i Maxxum from my grandfather, who is my favorite photographer of all time. He taught me so much, but only to a certain degree, for I found film limiting in some sense. I have only known the times of the computer and the internet, so digital photography was where I needed to go. Once I got hold of a digital camera last June, I spent hours upon hours taking thousands of photos that i could see instantaneously and asking every reluctant family member of mine to critique my shots (a family CC is always teh toughest).

What the point that I am bringing this to is the very name of this site Digital Photography Challenge can be interpreted so many different ways that wiggle room is necessary. Even for someone like myself...a child among proffessionals...I enjoy learning from all aspects of the site. I know that no matter how hard I try, it's inevitable that i will never be awarded a ribbon whether it's my talent, my experience, or my equiptment. But I love getting feedback, good or bad, and this is why this site is so successful.

Even if people enter illegal shots to challenges, who cares? This site is for us to share and learn and get feedback on our shots...and if others choose to mess with the photographic integreity, SO BE IT! If their shot places in the top ten and you get a middle four SO BE IT! It is the fact that despite the corruption lately in the challenges, people still place high, and still learn, and still get feedback, which I beleive is the main concept of this site.

Contest and Challenge are just a competitive off-shoot to the true intent of photographic integrity, which to me a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD KID, is the expression of the self and of artistic creativity. Let us just step aside and see how we are acting, and that an immature and bratty child can see through what is going on and just love photography.

Why mess up the fun learning and experience granting environment of the site because of people who feel that the best way that the can express themselves is by trying to bend the rules? If they truly want to break the rules for the sake of winning a digital ribbon then let th em go on their ego-trip and worry about ourselves advancing in ability as photographers.

Is something surreal, such as a digital ribbon, which is just binary code, so important as to destroy our human nature of expression?

Just a comment from a "simple-minded" child.

Lee

Edit: Minor Spelling

Message edited by author 2004-04-19 21:45:46.

dustin03

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

04/19/2004 09:46:13 PM · #289

...this site should have a sister site for digital art....

welcher

Canon EOS-5D

04/19/2004 09:51:50 PM · #290

Tranquil, the problem isn't the loss of ribbons to the digital artists, it's the loss of the site to them. If more and more people start entering digital art, then that's what this site will become. The VAST majority here like it to be a photography site. They learn from not only the response to their entries, but from other entries. They see and appreciate brilliant photographs. If those people, who are looking for photographs, instead find digital art, then the site is not what they came for, and not what they (possibly) paid for.

The notion that this is all about ribbons is a trite one, and one that dodges the fundamental point. No one here wants to dispel with digital art. I personally would LOVE to be able to do with Photoshop what Labuda does. I just don't want to see it here, on a photography site.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/19/2004 09:55:27 PM · #291

Originally posted by tfaust:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Move to the UK - we all live in them there.

Don't ya live in Texas.. ? :-)

I moved. The castles are cold and drafty. It's also why I said 'we all live in them there' and not 'we all live in them here'

Message edited by author 2004-04-19 21:55:54.

tfaust

Canon EOS 80D

04/19/2004 09:57:33 PM · #292

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by tfaust:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Move to the UK - we all live in them there.

Don't ya live in Texas.. ? :-)

I moved. The castles are cold and drafty. It's also why I said 'we all live in them there' and not 'we all live in them here'

Ah yes... good point, I missed the there vs. here. :-)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/19/2004 09:57:39 PM · #293

Originally posted by muckpond:

Originally posted by kathleenm:
Yes, this thread absolutely was a call to the minions to rally round and beg. What I'm glad to see is that the names I recognize (magnetic9999, muckpond, karenb, generale, gordon) have managed to still remain voices of reason even though their talent is equal or greater to the thread originator's.

i don't think i've ever EVER been referred to as a "voice of reason" before.

can i email this whole thread to my gramma? man, she'd be proud!

I worried about that too. I vote we move to suppress this slander.

tfaust

Canon EOS 80D

04/19/2004 09:58:52 PM · #294

Originally posted by welcher:

The notion that this is all about ribbons is a trite one, and one that dodges the fundamental point. No one here wants to dispel with digital art. I personally would LOVE to be able to do with Photoshop what Labuda does. I just don't want to see it here, on a photography site.

You successfully said what I have been thinking and not finding the right words for.

fsteddy

04/19/2004 10:19:49 PM · #295

I have nothing against photoshop or any of the wonderous things that can be done with it. I think that what people are getting all worked up about is the amount of DQs as of late. Follow the rules and all will be right with the world! Just my opinion like it or not.

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/19/2004 10:28:11 PM · #296

Who is voting here?

04/19/2004 10:34:07 PM · #297

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Who is voting here?

Them. Remember, the sect. shusssh.

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

04/19/2004 10:43:19 PM · #298

Originally posted by darcy:

this is lame.

are we all supposed to beg you to keep them up and promise to be better photographers now?

this thread is going to be a doozie...

Yup *insert begging*than laughter*

Even I, anti-setz, read one of his tutorials back in the day when I couldn't find the 'on' button to my digi cam... I'm sure they've helped a number of people, but I refuse [now that my head's securely out of my ass] to take advice or pointers from that guy.

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

04/19/2004 10:43:57 PM · #299

Originally posted by goinskiing:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I want them removed and I will make them available through my personal website.

I completely understand why you would want to, but the problem is that this could start a domino effect, especially when someone of your caliber is doing this.

Caliber? There ya go, that's exactly what he was fishing for.