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10/28/2008 09:26:31 AM · #1 |
As a favor, I did a photo shoot of a family of 10 on Saturday. I was assured by the woman who asked me (she is a teacher at the preschool where I did 54 art type portraits of the kids there)that they were fun and low key. I explained to her that I don't normally do group shots, but I'd give it a go, and if they didn't like it, they could ask someone else to do it. Indeed, the family was fun and I enjoyed working with all of them. I took a TON OF PHOTOS (probably over 250). I immediately came home and proceeded to work on them for nearly 8 hours. I told them I would just send them small imbedded images in their emails, not suitable for printing, but just to showcase them. I sent the best ones.
I heard back from her sister in law and she was nice but wanted to see ALL of the photos. I wrote her back and explained that as a professional, I do NOT showcase all of the images from a shoot. I choose the best ones, compositionally, tonally, etc. I also explained that since I was doing the teacher sister in law a favor by not charging a sitting fee. I was very kind and very tactful in my reply.
Well, she is insisting (in a nice way) that she see all of them so that she can choose which ones. She said she'd even like to see the bad ones. I don't know what to do in this situation. How else can I tell her I don't do that? UGH I made myself quite clear but she wrote right back and explained why she wanted to see them all, and also said she'd never heard of not being able to see each shot. This is a precarious situation because I have to deal with the teacher again, as the ordering process has begun at the school. The teacher is super nice and I don't want to ruffle any feathers.
Please no one tell me what I SHOULD have done. I need to know what to do now. THANKS!!! :~) |
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10/28/2008 09:29:29 AM · #2 |
Dear Lady
Oops...I deleted the bad ones upon my return home. I only have the presentable ones available. If that is not to your satisfaction please feel free to hire a professional photographer to do a suitable photoshoot with the appropriate fees to suit your requirements.
Should you have any further enquiries please do not hesitate to contact me.
Signed
Me.
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10/28/2008 09:30:13 AM · #3 |
| Tell her you deleted the ones you deemed not up to your salable quality and that you normally do this in your workflow. |
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10/28/2008 09:34:43 AM · #4 |
Only show your best. As a pro, you don't want rejects floating around.
Besides your have the latest Canon camera which automatically deletes the bad photos (it's an in-camera setting).
I would stand firm.
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10/28/2008 09:36:41 AM · #5 |
I would delete all the really bad ones that you do not like. So on average out of 250, 50 are out of focus etc. Then the next delete ones would be the ones that have funny faces, eyes closed, look fat.
That will leave you with 150, cull 10-50 that just gross you out.
You have 100 odd left. Edit the ones that you love and would be proud off. Then organize then from bad to amazing and show her the bad first then go up to the best.
That way, no one loses face, she she's a whole lot of shots and you can pretty much guarantee that she will choose the best ones.
The only reason I am saying this, is you stated that you had to work with her again. And she has been very persistent in wanting to see all of the shots.
Message edited by author 2008-10-28 09:38:25. |
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10/28/2008 09:39:30 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Dear Lady
Oops...I deleted the bad ones upon my return home. I only have the presentable ones available. If that is not to your satisfaction please feel free to hire a professional photographer to do a suitable photoshoot with the appropriate fees to suit your requirements.
Should you have any further enquiries please do not hesitate to contact me.
Signed
Me. |
I like Judi's reply! Another approach would be to suggest she contact another photographer and ask what their policy is regarding viewing ALL of the images from the shoot ... let her know in a nice way, exactly what the value of the sitting and processing would be and tell her she's free to hire someone else ... |
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10/28/2008 09:59:27 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Tell her you deleted the ones you deemed not up to your salable quality and that you normally do this in your workflow. |
Doesn't everybody do this. I do.
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10/28/2008 10:06:08 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Dear Lady
Oops...I deleted the bad ones upon my return home. I only have the presentable ones available. If that is not to your satisfaction please feel free to hire a professional photographer to do a suitable photoshoot with the appropriate fees to suit your requirements.
Should you have any further inquiries please do not hesitate to contact me.
Signed
Me. |
Another in agreement here...
Message edited by author 2008-10-28 10:06:16. |
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10/28/2008 10:10:25 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Tell her you deleted the ones you deemed not up to your salable quality and that you normally do this in your workflow. |
Doesn't everybody do this. I do. |
I don't. I probably should, but never seem to get around to it.
I do state up front though, that though I may get 200 shots, I will only upload the best, more representative ones, and I will usually guarantee a rough minimum number.
I've only had one person come back and ask to see more, and she was asking for one specific shot that she saw me take, and really wanted, but I hadn't uploaded it.
Before I started telling people that, I would always get people wanting to see them all, even the "bad ones." They never ordered the bad ones, though. Imagine that. I think it probably has something to do with that uncontrollable desire to have what is being withheld from you. . . |
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10/28/2008 10:49:37 AM · #10 |
| Thanks, guys. I thought of the deletion option after I had posted this, so I see many of you concur. The woman I will continue to see is not the one who is demanding to see more. I'm just astonished that she is being so insistent. |
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10/28/2008 11:44:24 AM · #11 |
| Does she know how many shots you took? If not, give in to her request and add a dozen more shots (ones that she is in). She might be anxious about photos that include her, that she hasn't seen, will be floating around without her knowledge. So, yep I agree that telling her you routinely delete the rejects is a good plan. |
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10/28/2008 11:47:16 AM · #12 |
Tell her that you'll gladly give her all of the photos in exchange for the opportunity to go to her house right before she wakes up and document her morning routine for a website you are creating.
Message edited by author 2008-10-28 11:50:54. |
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10/28/2008 11:47:31 AM · #13 |
People often ask this because they are looking for something specific, so ask if there is something she feels is missing. If you can help, do so. You will come out a hero, AND have another person to spread word-of-mouth for you.
If not, just say 'thank you for asking, but we don't keep images that are not up to our professional standards (such as blinking, someone looking away, etc.)'
Keep us informed, ok? :)
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10/28/2008 11:50:35 AM · #14 |
| There are a lot of good responses here. If it were me, I wouldn't even mention accidentaly deleting. I would just delete, then show her what's left and tell her that's what you took. In any artistic profession you never want to show the "bad ones". (Besides, the bad ones in group photos are usually the groups fault, not the photographers.) Showing the outtakes/bad ones, just gives the mean people ammunition. |
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10/28/2008 12:05:55 PM · #15 |
I think deleting the pictures or even telling her you deleted them is wrong on the surface of it. I would tell her that if she pays the standard sitting fee for the day of $XX that you will make an exception to your policy and allow her to sit down with you and review all the pictures in person. That way if she really "needs" to see all the pictures you won't have the bad one floating around and you will be compensated for your time.
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10/28/2008 12:06:56 PM · #16 |
I would not use the "accidental" deletion story. At this point, the customer would see it as a lie. (Which it is.) Even a straight up I deleted them, since it wasn't mentioned previously, could be seen as either a lie or outright defiance of her request. (To all her friend, "I asked to see the pictures... Twice! and she just went ahead and deleted them!)
I like the idea to delete the worst and show her the rest... The other tact you might want to use is, that you are a professional, there was no sitting charge, and that the extra work takes time, and takes you away from other projects. (The project might be catching your favorite TV show, who cares...) But that there will be an extra charge to arrange all the extra photos and get them ready for presentation.
Once she realizes that it will cost her money, she may change her mind. If she doesn't, then at least you are compensated. |
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10/28/2008 12:58:48 PM · #17 |
I never, EVER had a job where I didn't cull my images before presenting to the client. Anything that didn't meet my professional standards was tossed. The client's not paying for raw material, s/he's paying for finished output. My standard response to requests to "see more" was "This is all that's available."
R. |
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10/28/2008 01:10:55 PM · #18 |
I think in a business such as photography, reputation (and the word-of-mouth advertising it leads to) is very important. Which would you rather have circulating, that 40% of the shots you take are rejects, or that you refused/evaded a not-unreasonable customer request and then lied about it to cover it up?
Unless you stated up-front that you would only show a selection of images, I don't see why the customer shouldn't have the choice of commissioned images -- they are the client. How would you feel if a waiter said thay they'd decided that you couldn't order menu items #3, #7 and #14?
What you think is crap may be inspiring to your client. Basically, I fail to see how it's a good idea to impose one's own tastes on the client. Besides, if you show the "bad" photos, it should make the "good" ones look even better, and maybe give you and the client a chance to discuss the esthetics of what makes a "good" photograph.
For my own records, I make proof sheets/index prints of all my images in PDF format -- they can be saved so as to disallow printing or copying of the images without a password, which prevents unauthorized duplication. Here's an example from a recent folder of images, where I was on the freeway trying to catch some photos of a car fire on the opposite side, while maneuvering myself off at the ramp before the jam-up became impenetrable, so I could take an alternate route. I'm not ashamed of nor hesitant for you all to see any of those shots ...:
Actually, if only 40% of your shots are unusable, you are waayyy ahead of the curve -- as Sturgeon's Law (or Revelation) states: "Ninety percent of everything is crud." |
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10/28/2008 01:11:51 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by CraigD:
I think deleting the pictures or even telling her you deleted them is wrong on the surface of it. I would tell her that if she pays the standard sitting fee for the day of $XX that you will make an exception to your policy and allow her to sit down with you and review all the pictures in person. That way if she really "needs" to see all the pictures you won't have the bad one floating around and you will be compensated for your time. |
I just had this situation occur and this is exactly how I handled it. Worked like a dream. When dollars were on the table the lady in my case backed completely off.
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10/28/2008 01:17:32 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
What you think is crap may be inspiring to your client. Basically, I fail to see how it's a good idea to impose one's own tastes on the client. Besides, if you show the "bad" photos, it should make the "good" ones look even better, and maybe give you and the client a chance to discuss the esthetics of what makes a "good" photograph. |
Speaking for myself, it was never a matter of "taste" or "aesthetics", it was just a technical thing; sharpness, exposure, stuff like that. If an image didn't have the necessary foundation to make a professional-quality print, I tossed it. Of course I was working in architectural/commercial photography, not portraiture.
R. |
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10/28/2008 01:17:34 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Jutilda:
Thanks, guys. I thought of the deletion option after I had posted this, so I see many of you concur. |
I think everyone is telling you to tell your client that you've deleted them. Of course, don't ever delete anything (unless it's backed up).
You might have the only picture of Aunt Ellie that just died in a car accident. You never know.
Edit: Also, after you find your keepers, don't forget to renumber your images. Clients start to notice when they receive: IMG_1001.jpg, IMG_1002.jpg, IMG_1010.jpg. You'll eliminate questions such as, "Where are images 3-9?"
Message edited by author 2008-10-28 13:21:01. |
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10/28/2008 01:37:14 PM · #22 |
Dear X,
I appreciate your interest and respect your desire to choose from a variety of available shots. As a serious photographer, I am, of course, concerned with satisfying my clients' needs and preferences, but I must do so without compromising the integrity of my work.
This is why I am asking you to appreciate any evaluative and aesthetic choices I may make as part of my workflow. I view this also as part of my responsibility to you as much as to any future clients I may have.
I trust that you can appreciate my position in this matter and invite you choose from ... etc... (include a positive remark about a particular image or a group of them, you'd suggest for consideration).
If you need any further assistance... (offer your help).
Sincerely,
Sig.
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10/28/2008 01:51:24 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course I was working in architectural/commercial photography, not portraiture.
R. |
Yup, and I've never "really" worked in either. ;-)
However, then I'd just be blunt and honest and say my policy is to only show images which meet a certain technical standard, not to delete them and especially not to lie about it. |
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10/28/2008 02:03:09 PM · #24 |
When I was working as a pro, we always culled out the stinkers, which probably accounted for 80-90% of the shots. The client never saw them...EVER...because they went directly in the bin.
You only show what's acceptable to you as meeting your standards. If she doesn't like it, too bad, stick to your guns. I'd rather have the rep for having high standards and being uncompromising in that regard than have them showing a bunch of crap shots to their friends and having that represent me and my work. |
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10/28/2008 02:06:14 PM · #25 |
I guess what I try to avoid is the pet peeve of someone showing me a set of pictures, and there are 45 pictures for 3 different poses.
A friend of mine was showing me her daughter's engagement pictures. There were no less than 50 or 60 pictures. My friend's question was, "are not those the exact same picture?" Subtle differences in exposure and focus, etc. The same pose was "listed" with 4 or 5 different exposures, a black white conversion, a "soft" version, a sepia version, etc.
THAT is what I usually try to avoid, because then it looks like I'm "padding" something. It was actually this incident that led me to start explaining, "You will see/hear me take several shots of the same thing. I am making minor adjustments as we go. You will not have to look through all of them, I will just place the best representatives online for you to see."
In the OP's case, I think the advice of asking if there was something in particular she is looking for is brilliant. It may be as simple as that. Never lie. That will come back to bite you in the butt faster than anything, and can destroy any credibility you might have with some people.
If she insists that there isnt' anything in particular, she is just wanting to "look," set up a time for an appointment and tell her you will need to charge her your standard hourly consultation rate for that appointment. |
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