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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> DPC losing talented members
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10/10/2008 08:58:56 PM · #1
There seems to be a natural progression at DPC where very talented members, in time, stop interacting at the site or give up their membership all together. I wonder if there could be a way to reduce the attrition of the site's best. My first thought would be to have an advanced version of DPC where the best could still find a challenge without the encumbrance of newbies and lesser talents of which I consider myself. The purpose of the advanced DPC would be to keep the very talented engaged while still being accessible to the rest of us who enjoy learning from them.
This is the broad concept. I have not considered how it would actually work.
What are your thoughts?
-Jim
10/10/2008 09:03:44 PM · #2
Are you talking about like a type of membership or a whole new site in general?
10/10/2008 09:04:53 PM · #3
This is a subject that does come up occasionally. I basically agree with you. I think it would be beneficial to the site if there were a way to keep folks interested and engaged with the site that have 'outgrown' DPC.

hehe, although I guess it sounds kind of selfish for us hacks to want to keep people around so we can learn from them :-)
10/10/2008 09:13:34 PM · #4
Guess it depends on what you mean by keeping the 'very talented people'. Your plan seems to be offer some sort of expert level ribbon contest which infers that the people you miss are the people who used to ribbon a lot and left because they presumably got bored with it. Consider that keeping them around would mean a lot of he same types of images on the front page week after week. At least when ribbon winners come and go, you get to see some different styles winning. Sort of.
10/10/2008 09:16:50 PM · #5
I guess I mean a separate site where members from here could still access it even if we could not enter. I see the rule sets changing for this. It just seems that after these years of constant improvement both in hardware and in artistry, we need to separate the men from the boys so to speak. Forgive me for sounding elitist but the best need to compete against the best. Otherwise the site loses the riches of their contribution.
10/10/2008 09:22:45 PM · #6
Guess I either don't agree or (more likely) don't understand. There's a small set of styles that scores well here. Make a new site, those same styles will score there well too. People good at making pictures in that style will continue to do well at making them. To be honest they probably get bored because most of what scores well is just boring, stock eye-candy. Make a new site for it, you just get marginally superior boring stock eye-candy.
10/10/2008 09:25:50 PM · #7
I do not pretend to have it all thought out, but presumably if the entrants were restricted then it would follow that the voting would be restricted as well.
10/10/2008 09:34:15 PM · #8
Look on the bright side - talentless members also leave. ;-Þ

But then, why am I still here?
10/10/2008 09:36:33 PM · #9
Aren't the best already competing against the best along with the rest of us? How do the rest of us diminish their competition?

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. When I do I want to be competing with the best of the other squirrels too. I for one would feel cheated if I were to win a challenge knowing I didn't get to compete with the best to do it.

Your premise to keep the best engaged is admirable but I don't think putting them on a pedestal is the answer.
10/10/2008 09:40:00 PM · #10
Originally posted by DJWoodward:

Aren't the best already competing against the best along with the rest of us? How do the rest of us diminish their competition?

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. When I do I want to be competing with the best of the other squirrels too. I for one would feel cheated if I were to win a challenge knowing I didn't get to compete with the best to do it.

Your premise to keep the best engaged is admirable but I don't think putting them on a pedestal is the answer.

OK I thought some might get defensive. I was really proposing one way to keep the talented photographers who leave through boredom or whatever from leaving the site, thereby denying you the opportunity to compete against them anyway.
Does anyone have other suggestions to keep these folks engaged?

You know, Del, you have three blue ribbons and could be one of those who would benefit from this idea.

Message edited by author 2008-10-10 21:43:12.
10/10/2008 09:41:53 PM · #11
Originally posted by jrjr:

OK I thought some might get defensive. I was really proposing one way to keep the talented photographers who leave through boredom or whatever from leaving the site, thereby denying you the opportunity to compete against them anyway.
Does anyone have other suggestions to keep these folks engaged?

There's really nothing to worry about. I haven't decided to leave yet. ;)

10/10/2008 09:44:38 PM · #12
Originally posted by jrjr:


Does anyone have other suggestions to keep these folks engaged?


Yeah, rotate in new voters once a month and make sure they have wildly varying tastes in photography. ;)
10/10/2008 09:45:13 PM · #13

There's really nothing to worry about. I haven't decided to leave yet. ;) [/quote]

Not yet, anyway. That is my point. What would it be worth to you to be able to compete both in DPC AND DPC Advanced?
10/10/2008 09:48:25 PM · #14
There are many other reasons members leave other than boredom, therefore even the best efforts to keep people here for an extended period of time would fall short.
10/10/2008 09:51:55 PM · #15
Originally posted by jeger:

There are many other reasons members leave other than boredom, therefore even the best efforts to keep people here for an extended period of time would fall short.

Oh. I did not know that. Sorry.
10/10/2008 10:17:06 PM · #16
Originally posted by jrjr:

OK I thought some might get defensive....


Don't mean to sound defensive, just offering an opinion.

Originally posted by jrjr:

You know, Del, you have three blue ribbons and could be one of those who would benefit from this idea.


I wouldn't consider it a benefit. Any lack of participation on my part isn't boredom. It's just that life has a habit of getting in the way and I'm sure that's true for others in both positive and negative ways. I’ve been fortunate to win a few ribbons but I'm far from the “best” of this community. I have a lot more to learn and I could/should be contributing a lot more to it. If I had already won 50 ribbons I would still want to compete against the whole field though. The next best photographer is always just around the corner and I want to compete against him or her also. :-)
10/10/2008 10:42:35 PM · #17
I've been a member of DPC over four years now and have been coming to the site for five years. I have seen a lot of people come and go, some because they were po'ed and others because they were banned. But most, IMO, have become full-time photographers or have a full-time career and earn extra money in the form of a second job with their photography skills.

I don't think there is much DPChallenge can do to retain everyone because life comes first. Some just don't have the time to keep the same level of participation as they once did. However, I do fell that some people think DPC has become stagnate and have moved to other venues because of their point of view.

What I have notice the most and bothers me more than anything is the drop in forum activity about photography related issues and peoples willingness to help the person that opened a thread. Don't get me wrong there are still a lot of people that are willing to give advice and help others. But looking at it from a four-year span perspective I can see the difference today compared to earlier years. Why this is, I don't know.

10/10/2008 11:08:33 PM · #18
Originally posted by jrjr:

Originally posted by mick:

There's really nothing to worry about. I haven't decided to leave yet. ;)


Not yet, anyway. That is my point. What would it be worth to you to be able to compete both in DPC AND DPC Advanced?

Actually, It wouldn't be worth much to me. I suppose I just don't view photography as a competitive thing like many here do. I just want people to see my photos and tell me what they think of them. I did try to win the few ribbons that I have, just to prove to myself that I could do it. But once I had a few, I quickly lost interest. There's also the fact that I don't see the challenges as being true and fair contests. In my opinion, they're often nothing more than popularity contests. I may enter a few challenges again some day, just for the heck of it. If I do, then I'd prefer to compete against the whole field, not just the ones that weren't good enough to make it on the "other" DPC that you describe.

10/10/2008 11:15:35 PM · #19
Originally posted by jrjr:

There seems to be a natural progression at DPC where very talented members, in time, stop interacting at the site or give up their membership all together. I wonder if there could be a way to reduce the attrition of the site's best. My first thought would be to have an advanced version of DPC where the best could still find a challenge without the encumbrance of newbies and lesser talents of which I consider myself. The purpose of the advanced DPC would be to keep the very talented engaged while still being accessible to the rest of us who enjoy learning from them.
This is the broad concept. I have not considered how it would actually work.
What are your thoughts?
-Jim

How 'bout you just tell us what it's gonna take to keep you submitting and voting at the level YOU do, and then we'll have an answer......8>)

Love these......

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The image of the geese is one of the loveliest I have ever seen.

Message edited by author 2008-10-10 23:16:19.
10/10/2008 11:50:10 PM · #20
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

The image of the geese is one of the loveliest I have ever seen.


That's probably because they're swans.
10/11/2008 01:10:49 AM · #21
Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

The image of the geese is one of the loveliest I have ever seen.


That's probably because they're swans.

LOL!
10/11/2008 01:59:31 AM · #22
The problem with such a system is it may doom the very goal you are trying to accomplish. Yes, a system where the best-of-the-best can compete head-to-head will encourage creativity and some great work. I think the DPL clearly showed that the competitive model spurred lots of people to new heights. However, what is to keep the voters from devoting the majority of their time on the entries of the experts while neglecting those who are most benefitted from critical comment? This is the reason, I think, the model people have previously suggested where "ribbon winners" compete in one open and "non-ribbon winners" compete in another is flawed. If you were a voter, which pictures would you rather look at?

I wouldn't be against such a plan if it kept the elite around while avoiding this issue. Perhaps a separate system could be started with smaller, juried competitions instead ones with 1-10 voting. The winners could be showcased either alongside the usual ribbon winners or kept completely separate. I'm just thinking out loud.

This is a fundamental problem that many communities face. Challenge the advanced while feeding the beginners.
10/11/2008 07:46:19 AM · #23
Originally posted by Mick:

... I just want people to see my photos and tell me what they think of them. ...

(forgive the 'snip')

This is why a lot of members joined in the first place and what keeps/kept them here. Most people like the feedback/comments (photographic/artistic feedback). Add to that 'anonymous'/neutral feedback and mix it in with a little fun competition - it's a good mix. That too drew people in, engaged them and kept them here.

The trouble is (said before, saying it again) that the 'feedback energy' now flows differently at this site. Side Challenges, portfolio images, etc - rather than in a Challenge, where the bulk of that feedback was gained.

Not to mention forum energy either... (again, non photographic/artistic 'energy')

Why do they leave? - boredom? - maybe .. but is it boredom of photography.....?
10/11/2008 08:01:48 AM · #24
Why do they leave? - boredom? - maybe .. but is it boredom of [i]photography.....? [/quote][/i]

My primary guess for right now is the massive financial mess taking place worldwide distracting people from what is largely a hobby. And sometimes the challenges just aren't interesting enough to enter, so yes, I'd say that boredom is a factor.

I just know that I miss the immensely talented ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' silverfoxx is gone, and ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' IreneM has been absent from challenges recently too.
10/11/2008 08:05:58 AM · #25
Oh and regarding the original idea of an Advanced area of some description - I'd rather see another Masters' Free Study, but there have been objections in the past.
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