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04/14/2004 09:45:48 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I challenge you 113 voters out there to justify it deserves your rating. I bet you can't. |
All 113 of us are friends, and we thought it would be funny to vote down an obvious winner :)
I gave the photo a 4 because it's a below average photo. What kind of justification do you want? The flash is strong, her eye is cut off, the crop on the helmet isn't that good, and the thing that's supposed to be the theme in the picture is a distraction rather than the subject.
She's a cute litle girl, and I'm sure this was a great moment to be caught, but do you think it deserved a 10? |
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04/14/2004 09:49:31 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by rananculus:
I gave this foto an 8, but your comment is out of line here. Photography is subjective, and on this site, majority rules... but you're playing long odds going 113 to 1. |
I agree STRONGLY that photography is subjective and the voters are God.
This site is about photography. It is to educate about photography.
Some folks thought, "the wheel is to small so I'll give it a 1" and that was the end of it. Nothing photography about that. I believe people would think differently if they understood photography better. I hope I can help 113 voters with that.
That is why I am not out of line.
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04/14/2004 09:52:39 AM · #28 |
| I just didnt find this picture very appealing There is nothing Wow about it ... Looks more like a snapshot, and Agreed with Hopper |
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04/14/2004 09:57:32 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by hopper:
and the thing that's supposed to be the theme in the picture is a distraction rather than the subject.
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I see it more as the defining context, rather than a distraction. Strange how our minds work. Without the bike/ wheel it is just an unhappy looking girl sitting on the ground. With the hint of a bike, it becomes someone learning to ride and falling off.
Message edited by author 2004-04-14 09:58:05.
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04/14/2004 10:10:08 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by SharQ:
stDavidson: Who are you to claim that everybody else on this site have bad judgement? I would have given this picture a 3 or a 4, mainly because "wheel" is not the primary message in the photo. Frustration over not being able to ride a bike, perhaps. If the title was "frustration" or "another try" or something like that, it would have scored higher.
The picture itself is very good, and I would recommend sending it to an agency, as it may well be used commercially. For this challenge, however, it does not cut it.
h |
My premise is that most voters are new to photography and that they are still just learning how to view an image and how to take pictures. This is an education site on photography. I STRONGLY believe they would have voted differently if they understood to look for more than a great big wheel in the frame.
You summarize my feelings about this particular image perfectly.
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04/14/2004 10:18:01 AM · #31 |
Since you asked...
It's a cute shot of a young girl, but there is little in this shot that holds any interest for me. Compositionally perfect? Heck, I'm no expert, but I don't think it's close to compositionally perfect. Also, the colors seem a bit flat due to the flash. This is a fantastic shot for a photo album, but I'm not sure the low scores are the fault of the voters here. It'd get a 4 or 5 from me.
Message edited by author 2004-04-14 11:58:32. |
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04/14/2004 10:25:06 AM · #32 |
| Bill...Outake B is the best one! |
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04/14/2004 11:08:08 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by boomer:
In and of itself, it's a good picture. That said, the image doesn't make me think about WHEELS, it makes me think about the little girl. The subject of this photograph is the girl, not the wheel. Her expression is wonderful and compelling. But the theme was WHEELS, and IMHO, this image could have done better to meet the challenge. |
Another "fails to meet the challenge" vote. |
So what's your point? That anyone who didn't give this image a 5 or better is an idiot? That we (the 113 who got together to shoot down this image) deserve to be publically flogged? I stand by my vote, and furthermore, feel no further need to justify it to you or anyone else. Interesting that the PHOTOGRAPHER of this image hasn't said a word about the final score. |
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04/14/2004 11:24:34 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Most of the voters here put 90 % weight on the topic "Wheel" and little on the photo quality! |
Probably true people did... bt this image obviously meets the challenge as well or better than most of the other images. |
Stdavidson...
In your opinion, but not in the opinion of the majority of voters. It's a good shot, but not much wow and very little 'wheel'.
Sorry, but dems da facts.
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04/14/2004 11:38:05 AM · #35 |
I think this conversation takes upon a different perspective if you ask the same questions while comparing
The second place finish
with the image you presented
For the hard core "Wheel" is not the subject, the motorcycle photo fails as well. You can see by the votes on terrentius's photo that the hard core "not meeting the challenge" is a very small number of people.
I think Olnos's photo ranked low not just from the "Wheel" voters, but also from the "kid" voters and "does not appeal" voters. That is the only reasoning I can see for the descrepancy between the results of the two photos. |
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04/14/2004 11:44:56 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
bt this image obviously meets the challenge as well or better than most of the other images. |
you're stating your opinion as fact. it's YOUR opinion. it's up to each of the voters to decide individually whether or not they think this meets the challenge. and in this case, you've apparently been outvoted.
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04/14/2004 11:45:29 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
I think this conversation takes upon a different perspective if you ask the same questions while comparing
The second place finish
For the hard core "Wheel" is not the subject, the motorcycle photo fails as well. You can see by the votes on terrentius's photo that the hard core "not meeting the challenge" is a very small number of people.
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You'll note that there are several comments to that effect too, but the drama and colour in the image were enough to get people to ignore the fact that it didn't really 'meet the challenge' in their minds.
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04/14/2004 11:55:33 AM · #38 |
I gave it a 4. 5 is average, and then i go from there. -1 for the wheel being not the main subject. I think the lighting is a bit flat and dull as well, so no extra points added for anything. Other than that, the pic just doens't 'do' anything for me.
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04/14/2004 01:15:37 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I believe people would think differently if they understood photography better.
My premise is that most voters are new to photography and that they are still just learning how to view an image and how to take pictures. This is an education site on photography. I STRONGLY believe they would have voted differently if they understood to look for more than a great big wheel in the frame. |
Last time I checked there were over 500 new registrations in a week here at dpc. It is our job to educate them.
BTW, I voted the motorcycle and the little girl the same score; the litle girl is the more interesting photo but loses some for being a stretch to meet the topic; the motorcycle is closer to the topic but a very ordinary image executed properly. I can see several wheel-up Yammers any weekend I choose to go to the drag strip. Nonetheless, the motorcycle seems to be the kind of slick image the (perhaps uneducated) voters prefer.
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04/14/2004 01:32:35 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
I think this conversation takes upon a different perspective if you ask the same questions while comparing
The second place finish
with the image you presented
I think Olnos's photo ranked low not just from the "Wheel" voters, but also from the "kid" voters and "does not appeal" voters. That is the only reasoning I can see for the descrepancy between the results of the two photos. |
Interesting choice of comparision images for me personally. Both images were among my top three choices for this challenge.
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04/14/2004 01:41:42 PM · #41 |
Personally, I don't see the subject as the girl. Actually, I didn't see the subject as a noun for that matter. The subject was "learning to ride a bicycle". Since bicycles and wheels go hand in hand, I felt it met the theme quite well. Unfortunately, I didn't vote on that photo. But I would have likely given it a 5 or a 6. Had it somehow captured the learning part without the assistance of a title, it would have scored higher.
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04/14/2004 01:42:21 PM · #42 |
" Olnos deserves an explanation! "???
Why?
I think that my images should have finished a lot higher than they did, but other people obviously didn't like them as much as I did.
Does that then mean that they should have to explain themselves to me for not voting higher?
I don't think so.
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04/14/2004 01:45:53 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by bestagents:
I gave it a 4. 5 is average, and then i go from there. -1 for the wheel being not the main subject. I think the lighting is a bit flat and dull as well, so no extra points added for anything. Other than that, the pic just doens't 'do' anything for me. |
I appreciate your comment...
I accept that the image does not have high contrast which appeals to most folks, myself included, but look at the incredible composition, good use of the ROT, decent DOF, color and creativity. That is great photography. You don't give the photographer credit for any of it.
It still blows me away that folks think this fails to meet the challenge because the wheel is small and not the most prominent object in the frame. I thought the photographer a genius for his innovative shot, but obviously I'm in the minority. In this case, I don't mind being there. In others... well... I'm wrong. :)
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04/14/2004 01:49:24 PM · #44 |
I didn't get to vote only half of the submissions, but I just whant to say this to all the people obsessing with the rule of thirds. That's a purely philosophical theory that is supose to enhance some compositions and wich says that the subject placed in the any of the corners of the rule of thirds tends to be more in sight than others. But for god's sake that doesn't mean a composition that follows it doesn't have to also be interesting and that any picture that follows it is a great picture. Plus the subject doesn't have to be exactly 100% in one of those corners it's sometimes enough if it's somewhere in the area. I also seen so many others obsessing here whith words like "overexposed", "underexposed", "too grainy", "loss of detail" and such... Lighten up people. Sometimes an overexposure or a grain or something like these do enhance a composition it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Sometimes is good if there is loss of detail in a subject if you whant to bring out the shape of it for example. I am saying these because I have seen so many comments where it's obvious that some people here learned that "there are some rules" and they are the only ones that counts and they alone make a picture great and all the rest are bullshit. They don't even seem to try to see and understand what is the composition all about. Is it rule of thirds? Is it well exposed, is it tehnicaly perfect, all these alone seem to matter while the story that's in the composition is no concern to them.
This doesn't necesary have to do anyhing with olnos's shot, but with the "compositionaly perfect" statement and it's mostly something that I have seen alot recently here on DPC on lots of great shots. I think that olnos's picture follows the rule of thirds perfectly, it is tehnicaly perfect exposure and everything, but the wheel is nowhere to be seen in the shot, oh excuse me, there it is, sorry. I would of gave it a 5 or a 6 probably it's a good candid shot, kid is cute and expression too, but it no way scream "wheel" or "wheels" to me.
Again about the people obsessing with the rule of thirds, here is my shotin "wheels" and while most seem to see what I seen, the perfect green/yellow color composition wich clearly involves a wheel, someone had to come and say something like "I like that the wheel hub sits on left verticle third line. Drop that hub to the lower horizontal third, and I think the composition would be perfect." or someone else "the black thing in the center of the wheel - what is it? too dark and kind of modern, distracting." I loughed for an hour when I seen the second, no offence bestagents but you my be needing some glasses, and frankly I do not care about the black hub compositions of any kind are not about details like that. My composition is about ballance of color and a wheel and that whatever it is that you see there whas no concern of mine whatsoever.
Now seriously some of you people should really not take those rules for more than they are. Only theory that in some cases enhance a photo, but they are not "a must" and certainly not the only things that matter.
Message edited by author 2004-04-14 13:55:16. |
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04/14/2004 01:50:08 PM · #45 |
I scored Olno'spicture a 8 and I commented during voting
I scored Bill_hk2002 picture a 8 and I commented during voting.
I scored terrentius Need for speed a 9 and it was in my top 3 and I commented during the voting process.
All 3 were good photo's If you want a strict interpretation of meeting a challenge theme such as Wheels it would have been a very boring challenge indeed. Thankfully some people added a human element to it.
Take the next challenge(Serendipity) as strict and we would only get pictures of open dictonarys with focus on the word-->insert roll eyes smiley here<--
Message edited by author 2004-04-14 14:00:38. |
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04/14/2004 01:50:18 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:
" Olnos deserves an explanation! "???
Why?
I think that my images should have finished a lot higher than they did, but other people obviously didn't like them as much as I did.
Does that then mean that they should have to explain themselves to me for not voting higher?
I don't think so. |
Please re-read my reasons in the original post. Photographically speaking this great image. If yours is such an image then it needs expanation too. If you want I can review an image of yours you felt got slighted and tell you how I scored it and why.
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04/14/2004 01:55:38 PM · #47 |
| It's an average shot that received an average vote. Olnos apparently doesn't feel nearly as slighted as you do. |
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04/14/2004 01:59:16 PM · #48 |
this is a well done Photo....no doubt...it meets the Challenge.... it is done properly...and for some reason.....it comes up lower than expected....sheesh...I wonder why?...someone said earlier... the education of the voter is lacking..so go with the flow.. you got robbed
congratulations..(I voted... but missed it)..a WINNER... |
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04/14/2004 02:14:55 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:
" Olnos deserves an explanation! "???
Why?
I think that my images should have finished a lot higher than they did, but other people obviously didn't like them as much as I did.
Does that then mean that they should have to explain themselves to me for not voting higher?
I don't think so. |
Please re-read my reasons in the original post. Photographically speaking this great image. If yours is such an image then it needs expanation too. If you want I can review an image of yours you felt got slighted and tell you how I scored it and why. |
Maybe you should be the sole judge on all the challenges then? |
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04/14/2004 02:16:13 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
... to all the people obsessing with the rule of thirds. That's a purely philosophical theory that is supose to enhance some compositions ... I also seen so many others obsessing here whith words like "overexposed", "underexposed", "too grainy", "loss of detail" and such... Lighten up people. ...
... here is my shotin "wheels" and while most seem to see what I seen, the perfect green/yellow color composition wich clearly involves a wheel, someone had to come and say something like "I like that the wheel hub sits on left verticle third line. Drop that hub to the lower horizontal third, and I think the composition would be perfect." or someone else "the black thing in the center of the wheel - what is it? too dark and kind of modern, distracting." ... My composition is about ballance of color and a wheel and that whatever it is that you see there whas no concern of mine whatsoever.
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Photographic techniques such as opening the lense to decrease depth of field or positioning the subject in the frame in a way pleasing to the eye, or shooting at a high shutter speed to capture stop action are just that, techniques. Nothing more. It is how the photographer applies them that creates wonderful pictures.
I think you got good comments on your image. I'd take them over "great shot!" any day. It shows they took your image seriously enough to say something about it.
Btw, your entry was one of my favorites of the challenge. You hit the mark with your yellow/green color balance concept and you composed it nicely according to that dastardly rule of thirds thing. :) I scored yours 6 and thought serious about 7. I really wanted to give it 6.4. I'd be proud to have taken it.
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