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04/12/2004 05:27:57 PM · #1 |
Got a feeling this is going to cause a bit of controversy but what the hay, here goes. I propose that in the first 24 hours of a given challenge, participants have the ability to remove their entries from competition.
I think most people would avail of such an option to help bring their average scores up. This option wouldn't be entirely self-serving either; it has other positive aspects: 1) it would cut down on the number of images on the DPC servers - memory is money 2) bring up the overall image quality on DPC. I'm sure there are additional positives others can think of and certainly some negatives (I'm expecting more negatives, although I can't think of any I can't live with). Some will say, "What about the images I just commented on?" Well the solution to this is not allow commenting until after the 24 hour grace period. As for wasted votes, allow only 20% in the first 24 hours.
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04/12/2004 05:32:05 PM · #2 |
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04/12/2004 05:33:47 PM · #3 |
So by votes alone--and not comments--one would be able to retract their photo? Hmmm.
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04/12/2004 05:33:53 PM · #4 |
I don't like it , but it would cut down on certain threads.
Edit: Hand out 1's to make pictures go away and the field is lessen then you have a better chance. Definitely don't like it.
Message edited by author 2004-04-12 17:36:01. |
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04/12/2004 05:35:07 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by dsidwell:
So by votes alone--and not comments--one would be able to retract their photo? Hmmm. |
You betcha. Maybe there can be a lower score limit or something based on the overall site average.
Message edited by author 2004-04-12 17:36:03.
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04/12/2004 05:38:34 PM · #6 |
Sounds like a win win situtation however, I think members that retract a picture (for whatever reason) should have it recorded in their profile?
Challenges entered 5
Av vote 7.5
Retracted entries 27 :)
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04/12/2004 05:40:34 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Sounds like a win win situtation however, I think members that retract a picture (for whatever reason) should have it recorded in their profile?
Challenges entered 5
Av vote 7.5
Retracted entries 27 :) |
Valid point.
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04/12/2004 05:50:25 PM · #8 |
I don't think you should restrict voting and commenting. If you don't want to risk wasting your votes and comments, don't vote the first day, but I don't like the idea of restricting votes and comments, comments in praticular, which are lacking as is.
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04/12/2004 05:57:13 PM · #9 |
I don't think retraction is a good idea, even though I've had a few (OK, more than a few...) that I would have liked to retract. Opening that door will inevitably cause everyone who's getting a low score to retract; problem is, we tend to learn the most from the shots we get beat up the worst on, at least I know I have.
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04/12/2004 05:59:33 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
problem is, we tend to learn the most from the shots we get beat up the worst on, at least I know I have. |
I definitely agree with this...When I look at people's profiles, i see allt heir best shots up top but then i scroll down to see their worst in order to learn from that...Very good point.
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04/12/2004 06:06:25 PM · #11 |
What's the point in this? I think we would have massive withdrawals of all fotos not doing well. Afterall, within the first 24 hours one can tell whether their shot is gonna win or not. If you want to get higher average scores, take better pictures, take pictures that appeal to the mass populace, etc.
No matter what is in place, someone somewhere is gonna complain about there being a problem. Let's enojy things the way they are for a change!
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04/12/2004 06:28:17 PM · #12 |
I've had a couple of pictures increase almost a full point from after the first 24 hours to the end of the challenge.
In order to have a firm opinion about retractions I think you first have to attach a meaning the average score. I attach very little meaning to the average, so hence it wouldn't matter to me either way. What matters is how much you learn, and how you feel about your work. |
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04/12/2004 06:30:22 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
I've had a couple of pictures increase almost a full point from after the first 24 hours to the end of the challenge.
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My highest went up 2 points from beginning to end. |
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04/12/2004 06:34:56 PM · #14 |
Personally, I don't think it is neccassarily the best idea on a realistic level. I think its good to have those low scores on your "permanent record." There are many good photographers that I admire for posting shots that don't score well, some even on a consistent basis, take a look at GenerlE for example. He's an excellent photographer and he has some excellent shots, but he doesn't neccassarily have the highest average. What I amsaying is, is that it is not all about the average, its all about the learning. If those "low scoring" shots (I like to call them learning experiences) were taken out, then the averga would really just be a lie. Now would that feel good?
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04/12/2004 07:00:04 PM · #15 |
I do not like it. It is my understanding this site is about learning -- mistakes are a great teacher.
Besides, it is fairly accepted on here that the obvious scores better. But I would like to add the pictures that make me think are the ones that take time to appreciate.
Not being allowed to comment in the first 24 hours would reduce commenting even more. Many do not take the time to give each picture a good look the first time through, do not take a second pass and certainly would not come back a day later to add comments.
Solution: Do not submit a photo you are not happy with -- If you are happy with it the score does not matter.
David |
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04/12/2004 07:02:37 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
Do not submit a photo you are not happy with -- If you are happy with it the score does not matter.
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If I had a DPC motto, this would be it!
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04/12/2004 07:16:24 PM · #17 |
| I'm proud to have some very badly scoring shots, it shows I'm not afraid to experiment and take risks. There are too many people here who enter competitions to make points, and lose their artistic integrity in the process. You should all be here to learn how to become better photographers, not build up a high average score. |
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04/12/2004 07:21:14 PM · #18 |
Didn't think it would be a popular idea but it was/is thought provoking. Thanks for the debate and input. That's what makes this site great.
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04/12/2004 07:25:38 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
...we tend to learn the most from the shots we get beat up the worst on, at least I know I have. |
Unfortunately, what we learn often is only what works in terms of taste here at DPC.
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I'm proud to have some very badly scoring shots, it shows I'm not afraid to experiment and take risks. There are too many people here who enter competitions to make points, and lose their artistic integrity in the process. You should all be here to learn how to become better photographers, not build up a high average score. |
Hear, hear.
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04/12/2004 07:25:49 PM · #20 |
I'm new to this site and just picked up photography as a hobby. I was searching for a forum to further my learning and improve my technique. This site is awesome. In order to learn, I need to see good photos and not so good photos. I do not learn only from my own mistakes, but from the work of others too.
The score has no bearing on my ego. It simply says that I need to be better. If someone could tell me what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong, that's priceless. If I can read comments on photos from other members, I will benefit more from that learning too.
I believe that the option to retract would take away from the learning experience. I know that sometimes we know we could do better on a submissions, but it's too late. That's the beauty of deadlines. I don't get to retract that essay I handed to the professor or that report I e-mailed to my vice president. I do get, however, the time to do the best work that I can do until I submit.
Averages are over rated anyways. You should be examining your score distribution. An average of 5 could mean that everyone gave you a 5 (and that would infer that your photo was ok...) However, and average of 5 could also mean that half gave you 1s and the other half gave you 10s (and that would infer that you pleased a lot yet offended a lot also.) Distribution of scores tells you more than just averages. What's more telling are comments. I hope to learn from you all! |
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04/12/2004 07:27:20 PM · #21 |
For those who don't like the idea I need to pose a question. Who among you would not retract a poor shot if it was an option?
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04/12/2004 07:29:03 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by orussell:
For those who don't like the idea I need to pose a question. Who among you would not retract a poor shot if it was an option? |
I wouldn't.
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04/12/2004 07:36:48 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by goinskiing:
Originally posted by Britannica:
Do not submit a photo you are not happy with -- If you are happy with it the score does not matter.
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If I had a DPC motto, this would be it! |
Well said. I'm trying hard to learn this lesson. Entering a photo that vaguely fits the challenge is always a great temptation and for me, not entering "Window View" was a victory over myself even though I'm sure the photos I had prepared would not have produced my lowest scores.
On the other hand, there are times when I may want to enter something that won't necessarily be popular just to see what reaction I get to it. This was the case with the portrait challenge. My entry scored below 5, but the fact that some people liked it was good enough for me.
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04/12/2004 08:54:56 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by orussell:
I propose that in the first 24 hours of a given challenge, participants have the ability to remove their entries from competition. This option wouldn't be entirely self-serving either; it has other positive aspects: 1) it would cut down on the number of images on the DPC servers - memory is money 2) bring up the overall image quality on DPC. |
This comment begs several questions to be asked. Firstly, there are normally a large amount of images that score between a 2 and a 3. Are the people who enter images that score these very low marks thinking they were going to be 5+? If people expect to receive a 2 or a 3 score then chances are they are not going to withdraw their image within 24 hours and so the overall quality would not be improved.
I'm sure everyone has entered a shot they thought would do better. My recent orange entry got a 5.1 or something score that I thought would do better. It was only my second 5 in 14 challenges and made my score pattern look untidy. But it made me think twice before entering a shot into another challenge.
The idea is that people think before they enter a shot whether it is worth entering or not. If given the option to remove an image after the first 24 hours then people are going to enter anyways, no harm done if it scores bad, just remove it. That will lead to having some bad quality shots in the first round, which will lead to more people not voting within the 24 hours, which would mean no bad votes to decide whether or not the voters like your shot or not, which means only 6 days to vote and comment instead of 7 etc.
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04/12/2004 09:04:35 PM · #25 |
| I agree most wouldn't pull their entry, (optimistic or something like that)...howver I have often thought there should a beginner, intermediate, and expert catagory, you can chose yourself where you want to enter, but the beginner would be encouraged to enter more often id the competition wasn't so stiiff. Just a thought.. |
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