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09/12/2008 11:14:07 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Well he *IS* right. The conversion to JPG is after-sensor post-processing. But you're right too. |
Huh? Any in-camera effects other than multi-exposure applied between sensor and flash mem = good. Anything else = cheating. |
To answer your "huh", I just pointed out that the JPG writing IS a post-processing step that's all. |
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09/12/2008 11:15:51 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Well he *IS* right. The conversion to JPG is after-sensor post-processing. But you're right too. |
Huh? Any in-camera effects other than multi-exposure applied between sensor and flash mem = good. Anything else = cheating. |
To answer your "huh", I just pointed out that the JPG writing IS a post-processing step that's all. |
You people are insane. That's like trying to argue that the light exposing the film inside a camera is the first step of the development process. Back to your padded rooms. |
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09/12/2008 11:16:28 AM · #103 |
| Yes, step one for me will be to clean my sensor. It's been dirty. Now I gotta dig the special scotch tape out of a box somewhere... |
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09/12/2008 11:17:20 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Yes, step one for me will be to clean my sensor. It's been dirty. Now I gotta dig the special scotch tape out of a box somewhere... |
Don't you just rinse your cameras in ponds, rivers and the like?
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09/12/2008 11:19:39 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Well he *IS* right. The conversion to JPG is after-sensor post-processing. But you're right too. |
Huh? Any in-camera effects other than multi-exposure applied between sensor and flash mem = good. Anything else = cheating. |
To answer your "huh", I just pointed out that the JPG writing IS a post-processing step that's all. |
You people are insane. That's like trying to argue that the light exposing the film inside a camera is the first step of the development process. Back to your padded rooms. |
I think someone pee-peed in your corn flakes dude.
I said you were right about what's legal and what's not legal.
C-H-I-L-L. |
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09/12/2008 11:20:40 AM · #106 |
Originally posted by Mr_Pants:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Yes, step one for me will be to clean my sensor. It's been dirty. Now I gotta dig the special scotch tape out of a box somewhere... |
Don't you just rinse your cameras in ponds, rivers and the like? |
Ha! I resemble that remark. Actually that method was leaving algae on the sensor and it was a bitch to get off. |
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09/12/2008 11:23:53 AM · #107 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
C-H-I-L-L. |
T-H-O-R-A-Z-I-N-E. |
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09/12/2008 11:28:35 AM · #108 |
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
C-H-I-L-L. |
T-H-O-R-A-Z-I-N-E. |
Whichever you need, just calm down. |
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09/12/2008 11:47:14 AM · #109 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Yes, step one for me will be to clean my sensor. It's been dirty. Now I gotta dig the special scotch tape out of a box somewhere... |
*lol* nahhh the dust adds character! you could put a TON of dust on your lense and take some pics convert to the B&W and call it oldschool *lol* ;-D ;) |
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09/12/2008 11:54:36 AM · #110 |
*~hehe~* darn i really get a grin out of DPC some afternoons ;) :-D
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09/13/2008 01:09:40 AM · #111 |
Cross posted from the Minimal Editing Admin Announcement thread:
Since the Minimal ruleset was first announced, we've seen an increase in the post-processing features available in-camera. For example, some cameras can now apply filters/effects after the actual capture. These new features available on some cameras introduced a contradiction within the Minimal ruleset as written -- because they said that you could use any feature of your camera except multiple exposures.
The preamble to ruleset has been amended to better reflect the spirit of the ruleset: "Restrictions on post-processing apply to ALL edits performed after the image is captured, whether on a computer or with in-camera tools."
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Beat ya  L2!!!!!!!!!!! |
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09/13/2008 01:12:25 AM · #112 |
Yep, you did! Thanks  jdannels |
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09/13/2008 09:21:53 AM · #113 |
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Maybe I'm just not awake yet but those pre-capture settings would include shutter and aperture but I can't think of anything else? What else could be considered pre-capture settings? An ND filter?
I hear my second cup calling... |
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09/13/2008 09:26:49 AM · #114 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Maybe I'm just not awake yet but those pre-capture settings would include shutter and aperture but I can't think of anything else? What else could be considered pre-capture settings? An ND filter?
I hear my second cup calling... |
On many cameras, you can adjust the JPEG processing that is done on the actual capture. These include setting the colors to vivid, adding more sharpening, etc. |
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09/13/2008 09:39:50 AM · #115 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by Jac:
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Maybe I'm just not awake yet but those pre-capture settings would include shutter and aperture but I can't think of anything else? What else could be considered pre-capture settings? An ND filter?
I hear my second cup calling... |
On many cameras, you can adjust the JPEG processing that is done on the actual capture. These include setting the colors to vivid, adding more sharpening, etc. |
Aren't all in-camera "special effects" pre-capture settings? The new language in the ruleset amendment hasn't cleared this up. Give me an example of a special effect that is chosen or applied after the JPEG is captured.
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09/13/2008 09:42:29 AM · #116 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by Jac:
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Maybe I'm just not awake yet but those pre-capture settings would include shutter and aperture but I can't think of anything else? What else could be considered pre-capture settings? An ND filter?
I hear my second cup calling... |
On many cameras, you can adjust the JPEG processing that is done on the actual capture. These include setting the colors to vivid, adding more sharpening, etc. |
Specifically: cameras have menus that allow you to preset such things as sharpness, white balance, color saturation, and so forth BEFORE you make the exposure, and these settings will determine the appearance of the JPG the camera will produce. All of these adjustments CAN be made in photoshop during post processing, and that's the way most of us work.
But for Minimal Editing challenges, none of these post production tweaks are allowed; the image must remain unaltered from its original, out-of-camera appearance.
Actual, physical filters attached to the lens are not considered "camera adjustments" at all: they affect the condition of the light that is transmitted to the sensor, not the processing of the image after the sensor records it.
R. |
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09/13/2008 09:43:26 AM · #117 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by Jac:
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Maybe I'm just not awake yet but those pre-capture settings would include shutter and aperture but I can't think of anything else? What else could be considered pre-capture settings? An ND filter?
I hear my second cup calling... |
On many cameras, you can adjust the JPEG processing that is done on the actual capture. These include setting the colors to vivid, adding more sharpening, etc. |
Aren't those applied after capture? I've been shooting only RAW for over a year now and thought that nothing was done to the file before or after capture. So you're saying with JPEG I can add sharpening and this will be legal in Minimal Editing?
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09/13/2008 09:47:13 AM · #118 |
So those Nikons with pre-set D-lighting are perfectly ok then?
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09/13/2008 09:48:26 AM · #119 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Maybe I'm just not awake yet but those pre-capture settings would include shutter and aperture but I can't think of anything else? What else could be considered pre-capture settings? An ND filter?
I hear my second cup calling... |
In addition to the examples that Bear posted, some cameras will apply an effects filter after the fact. There was one very controversial DQ where a "soft light" effect was applied in-camera, after the fact. I'll try to find the example for you but right now I can't remember the name of the photog or the challenge. It was a shot of a forest scene, if I remember correctly. |
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09/13/2008 09:49:57 AM · #120 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by Jac:
On many cameras, you can adjust the JPEG processing that is done on the actual capture. These include setting the colors to vivid, adding more sharpening, etc. |
Aren't those applied after capture? I've been shooting only RAW for over a year now and thought that nothing was done to the file before or after capture. So you're saying with JPEG I can add sharpening and this will be legal in Minimal Editing? |
I don't think that's what he means: I think he's saying you can tweak the settings before you shoot and the new parameters will be applied to JPGs you shoot from that point on.
IF there are cameras that allow you to review the capture on the camera's LCD screen and apply adjustments to that file AFTER it is captured and written as a JPG but BEFORE it is downloaded from the camera (in other words, modifying the capture after you make it), then those adjustments would be considered in-camera post processing and they would not be legal for this challenge. I'm not personally aware that this is possible (it certainly isn't on my 20D) but it seems to me I have heard that some newer cameras have a few available post-processing functions in camera.
R.
Message edited by author 2008-09-13 09:51:27. |
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09/13/2008 09:51:16 AM · #121 |
Originally posted by L2:
In addition to the examples that Bear posted, some cameras will apply an effects filter after the fact. There was one very controversial DQ where a "soft light" effect was applied in-camera, after the fact. I'll try to find the example for you but right now I can't remember the name of the photog or the challenge. It was a shot of a forest scene, if I remember correctly. |
Here's the example:
 by  Puckzzz
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09/13/2008 09:51:41 AM · #122 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by Jac:
Please note: pre-capture settings on whatever camera you have are still fair game.
Maybe I'm just not awake yet but those pre-capture settings would include shutter and aperture but I can't think of anything else? What else could be considered pre-capture settings? An ND filter?
I hear my second cup calling... |
On many cameras, you can adjust the JPEG processing that is done on the actual capture. These include setting the colors to vivid, adding more sharpening, etc. |
Specifically: cameras have menus that allow you to preset such things as sharpness, white balance, color saturation, and so forth BEFORE you make the exposure, and these settings will determine the appearance of the JPG the camera will produce. All of these adjustments CAN be made in photoshop during post processing, and that's the way most of us work.
But for Minimal Editing challenges, none of these post production tweaks are allowed; the image must remain unaltered from its original, out-of-camera appearance.
Actual, physical filters attached to the lens are not considered "camera adjustments" at all: they affect the condition of the light that is transmitted to the sensor, not the processing of the image after the sensor records it.
R. |
That doesn't guarantee everyone will be playing on the same level though. If I can sharpen, saturate, and adjust other settings in camera then this can't be considered a straight from the camera challenge. It's creating another class of processing that some will use and some will not, unfortunately, as some use photoshop well and some don't. |
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09/13/2008 09:53:09 AM · #123 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by Jac:
On many cameras, you can adjust the JPEG processing that is done on the actual capture. These include setting the colors to vivid, adding more sharpening, etc. |
Aren't those applied after capture? I've been shooting only RAW for over a year now and thought that nothing was done to the file before or after capture. So you're saying with JPEG I can add sharpening and this will be legal in Minimal Editing? |
I don't think that's what he means: I think he's saying you can tweak the settings before you shoot and the new parameters will be applied to JPGs you shoot from that point on.
IF there are cameras that allow you to review the capture on the camera's LCD screen and apply adjustments to that file AFTER it is captured and written as a JPG but BEFORE it is downloaded from the camera (in other words, modifying the capture after you make it), then those adjustments would be considered in-camera post processing and they would not be legal for this challenge. I'm not personally aware that this is possible (it certainly isn't on my 20D) but it seems to me I have heard that some newer cameras have a few available post-processing functions in camera.
R. |
Thanks Robert for clarifying my response. You describe exactly what I meant. Post processing the image on the camera before the image is transfered to the PC is still post processing. Having the setting established before you hit the shutter release is an entirely different thing. |
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09/13/2008 09:56:14 AM · #124 |
Ok, here's an example:
This was Basic Editing, but the theory is similar (post-processing done in-camera, but after the shutter snap). The camera was a K10D.
And Bassbone beats me! :)
Message edited by author 2008-09-13 09:57:11. |
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09/13/2008 09:56:21 AM · #125 |
Originally posted by Jac:
That doesn't guarantee everyone will be playing on the same level though. If I can sharpen, saturate, and adjust other settings in camera then this can't be considered a straight from the camera challenge. It's creating another class of processing that some will use and some will not, unfortunately, as some use photoshop well and some don't. |
Until  Langdon decides to buy us all the same camera with the same features to use, we are left with this. Minimal editing seems to be more about camera setup and execution of the shot rather than post processing. It is more about seeing the light and composition and going with it as is.
Yes, certain cameras allow extra features, vibrancy, sharpness, etc, but these algorithms provide the photog minimal control. |
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