Do Politics Sway YOUR DPC Voting?

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/08/2008 02:12:09 PM · #1

First, I'm not posting this because I'm bitter about how this shot did in the Free Study, or anything like that... I fully expected the <6 result it got. I am, however, quite curious to see whether anyone is willing to fess up to the fact that they allow their political views to skew their voting.

Is it the most amazing shot in the world, worthy of the cover of Newsweek? No, probably not... but is it worthy of eight votes of 1? I really don't think so (for me to vote a 1 on something, it's gotta be pretty damn bad):

I've experimented a few times this year by posting some political shots, and I can't help but be amused by people who have to interject their political views into the shots, and presumably how some people are letting those views affect their voting. I do believe this is a photography site, and the point of voting is to rate a shot on its photographic qualities.

As a journalistic shot (which was printed in a newspaper), I like this shot. Just curious to see what others think.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/08/2008 02:18:57 PM · #2

I think its a great shot - I will say the 1s were defintely from the McCain/MILF camp..

nice capture.

tate

Apple iPhone 14 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/08/2008 02:20:03 PM · #3

I might have been swayed to score your shot higher because of my appreciation toward this man =) - but those scores of 1 are crazy. Almost comical in a free study. I think the shot is great compositionally, clear, crisp � so I'd say you have some NeoCon or otherwise adverse voters to this topic yes.

Message edited by author 2008-09-08 14:20:31.

scarbrd

Leica M10

Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux M Aspherical MF - Black

09/08/2008 02:24:34 PM · #4

I think the 6ish score is about right. Good technicals but not a particular compelling moment in time.

My guess is you got equal votes up and down due to the subject matter.

rlewis

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/08/2008 02:25:57 PM · #5

I found the water bottle to be quite distracting and also felt that his head was too near the top of the image, the image is very clean and clear, but not so remarkable as to score highly.

ambaker

Google Glass Google Glass

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

09/08/2008 02:27:55 PM · #6

I try not to let such things influence me. I think the tendency is natural, whether it be on political, religious, moral, national, or even gross out factor. I can say I wouldn't just outright give a picture a 1, because of the subject matter, but does it make a difference between an 8 or a 9, it might without me even realizing it.

You have to keep in mind that a lot of pictures get 3 or 4 1s, each session. Sometimes even the winning photos have that many. So you are really only talking about a few people, and there are likely that many here. At the same time, there are probably people who would give a 1 to any photo of George W. Bush, that did not portray his imminent destruction.

In a perfect world, it would not be so. But the world, just like most images here, is not perfect.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

09/08/2008 02:28:35 PM · #7

My comment:

I think 5.99 is about what this deserved.

It's certainly well exposed and sharp, the shallow DOF helping to isolate Mr. Obama from the background.

Unfortunately, his water bottle gets the same treatment. Also, I don't think anyone mentioned this, but for a campaign news shot, he's totally removed from that context. There's no flags, no cheering crowd of supporters, nothing to suggest that this is not a pre-campaign speech by a relatively unknown Senator Obama at a hometown community center. I also think you could lose the entire right half of the image, cropping to vertical and have a stronger image.

atupdate

Pentax K-R

Promaster 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 XR IF

09/08/2008 02:30:56 PM · #8

Originally posted by alanfreed:

Is it the most amazing shot in the world, worthy of the cover of Newsweek? No, probably not... but is it worthy of eight votes of 1? I really don't think so (for me to vote a 1 on something, it's gotta be pretty damn bad

As a journalistic shot (which was printed in a newspaper), I like this shot. Just curious to see what others think.

What do you think about the six 10's and the four 9's? Did it rate those votes?

I believe they equal out in the end. Political images generate reaction, both positive and negative.

Tim

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

09/08/2008 02:31:45 PM · #9

Originally posted by alanfreed:

... I do believe this is a photography site, and the point of voting is to rate a shot on its photographic qualities. ...

That's a nice premise, however you have to figure that personal taste, likes/dislikes also play a role here at DPC. There have been times when I've cast a low vote, yes even a 1, to images that IMO were downright vulgar or very distasteful. On the flip side, I've cast a higher vote to an image that may not have been technically perfect but was fun and put a smile on my face.

FTR, I did not get to your image while voting the recent Free Study, so I cannot lay claim to any of those 1's. :-)

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

09/08/2008 02:36:57 PM · #10

I voted it a 6 -- largely for the reasons already mentioned.

I am definitely not in the Obama camp (or the McCain one for that matter -- I am a voter without a candidate).

I have to say, your title threw me for the longest. I sat and looked and read it and read it and read it and could not for the life of me figured out WHY Obama would say that. Then, I realized that . . .

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/08/2008 02:57:05 PM · #11

As one who holds one of the lowest voting averages on this site, my rating for the image in question would have been in line with the majority in this case. I could imagine a fastidiously discriminating 3, perhaps. I could envision a 6 from someone appreciating both genre and opportunity.

Anything outside this range, I bet, came from voters who saw and rated a subject, regardless of medium and genre.
Quack votes, in my book, we need to suffer, if we want to play with everyone.

Message edited by author 2008-09-08 14:58:06.

DJWoodward

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/08/2008 03:00:19 PM · #12

Alan if the concepts of normal distribution have any impact on the scoring here @ DPC, and I think they generally do the shot definitely got hit with some "special cause" effect. I think a spike of 8 ones is unlikely to be caused by chance in this distribution of votes. It could be that 8 people have an aversion to water bottles but I think your theory is more sound.

By the way I think the same argument could be made for some but not all of your Tens. As a totally arbitrary experiment I removed all of the ones and 4 of the Tens and the average went from 5.994 to 5.993.

I think that personal biases definitely affect voting but with a polarizing subject such as a nude shot (outside of a nude challenge of course) the biases usually balance out. But if a subject�s bias is one sided then the score is truly effected. (IMHO)

pamelasue

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

09/08/2008 03:01:02 PM · #13

I think you know how I voted already, but for the sake of this thread I'll say that I voted fairly and without any political goggles on ... I agree that it would be a stronger photo if the right side of the image were cropped off as the water bottle lends little to the overall composition of the image ... I'm really surprised by the nubmer of "1" votes, but I guess DPC as a whole doesn't like political or religious images ...

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/08/2008 03:27:23 PM · #14

I gave you a 1 because I am against bottled water.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

09/08/2008 03:38:15 PM · #15

Left you a comment

stphq

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 III

09/08/2008 03:46:12 PM · #16

i'm not in america so the politics don't come into it for me,, but i would suggest that maybe your title annoyed some people as it implies you are prejudging how they will vote before they have even seen your picture... which some may have taken as a bit unfair,, you may have tempted and invited the low scores.. just my viewpoint on it.. nobody likes to be pressumed guilty of something until proven to be so...

Message edited by author 2008-09-08 15:50:02.

ryand

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/08/2008 04:00:07 PM · #17

I think a 6 is very fitting, its a nice shot, but not something that forces anyone to click the 10, unless they are a huge obama supporter and are swayed for that reason. Such as the 6-10's you got in this shot and the 8-1's you got. I think they are probably because of political preference, which I find absolutely insane. This is a photography site, and we should vote that way, just my 2 cents, its a nice shot, and i imagine the extreme votes are from politically biased people.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

09/08/2008 04:12:32 PM · #18

Originally posted by alanfreed:

I do believe this is a photography site, and the point of voting is to rate a shot on its photographic qualities.

This is simply not the case. I think it's sad to not allow a voter to interpret the image at some level beyond it's photographic qualities. You, as long as you have been here, should know this as much as anyone else. Not many people wanna listen when I say over and over again that the technicals of a photograph come SECOND to the subject choice. If you present people with a subject that they don't like, whether it be Barack Obama or a perfectly photographed turd (not intending to compare the two), you can't expect them to buy into the technical quality of the image. In fact, they wouldn't usually bother to consider anything beyond the subject unless they like the subject.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4.0-5.6G ED

09/08/2008 04:14:44 PM · #19

I've been enjoying the reading in the thread. Like I said, I expected around a 6 out of it, and I find it an interesting study of voting patterns. And those who say that the irrational 10s even it out are likely to be correct in that assessment. It ain't a 10 any more than it's a 1.

As I look through many of my recent shots, most of them have at least one vote of 1 (usually one or two)... but it is interesting to see how many more of them there are for my political shots:

Nine 1s; Fourteen 10s

Four 1s; Two 10s (not as big on either end on this one -- which is surprising in retrospect since Hillary is arguably more polarizing)

Anyhow... like I had said before, this is more observational than anything. I think it would be interesting to hear from someone who voted either a 1 or a 10 to help explain why they felt any of these shots fell into either of those categories.

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

09/08/2008 04:16:10 PM · #20

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by alanfreed:
I do believe this is a photography site, and the point of voting is to rate a shot on its photographic qualities.

This is simply not the case. I think it's sad to not allow a voter to interpret the image at some level beyond it's photographic qualities. You, as long as you have been here, should know this as much as anyone else. Not many people wanna listen when I say over and over again that the technicals of a photograph come SECOND to the subject choice. If you present people with a subject that they don't like, whether it be Barack Obama or a perfectly photographed turd (not intending to compare the two), you can't expect them to buy into the technical quality of the image. In fact, they wouldn't usually bother to consider anything beyond the subject unless they like the subject.

Yep. Well said.

BigJohnson

Nikon D40X

09/08/2008 04:17:10 PM · #21

I'm not from the US, so have no political axe to grind. I gave it a 4 and I think I probably would've given it a 5 but for your choice of title. The way I read your title was, "this is a good photo worthy of a decent score; if you don't give it a good score, it's for reasons of politics". That'll get my back up every time. That aside, imagine it's not Obama. Imagine it's a pic of somebody none of us know speaking at a church or school meeting. That type of image, well captured, will generally get a 5+.

09/08/2008 04:19:31 PM · #22

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I think it's sad to not allow a voter to interpret the image at some level beyond it's photographic qualities. You, as long as you have been here, should know this as much as anyone else.

Of COURSE that is the case, and I'm quite well aware of that, thank you. I will admit that if I personally see a picture of an annoying-looking yappy dog, I'm probably going to vote it a maybe point lower because those dogs drive me nuts. My point is that allowing yourself to be biased to the extreme of giving a 1 or a 10 is going well beyond what is reasonable. First and foremost, it should be about the photography.