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09/08/2008 08:57:42 AM · #1
The DPCO-III season will be scored this way.

Ranked teams... Each team has a total of 8 members. The top 5 entries from each team will contribute to the teams over all average. The teams will then be given points depending on how they finish. The 1st place team will get 16 points and the 16th team will get 1 point. These points will be called DPCO-III Points on the score card.

"O" points... "O" points (Olympic Points) are received from the members of a team entering the challenges. The more times that everyone enters the more "O" points that team will get. Here's how it works. Team A's score has been calculated and all 8 members entered the challenge. For each entry that team member will get 1 point. So the entire team will receive 8 points. Those points are then divided by 8 giving team "A" a full 1 "O" point for the week.
Now Team B only had 6 people that entered in week 1 therefore Team B will only get 6 points that are divide by 8 because there are 8 members on a team. So Team B will get a total of .75 "O" points for the week.

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If you have any questions please ask them.

Message edited by author 2008-09-11 18:05:03.
09/08/2008 09:06:01 AM · #2
So...

DPCO-III points + "O" points = overall score

Correct?
09/08/2008 09:09:04 AM · #3
My team will be punished if I don't enter a challenge during the week. I hadn't planned on entering 12 challenges in a row though. The reason we have 8 people is to let some rest one week or if they have something important to do, the others can take up the slack. With your point system the whole team has to enter each week or else we don't get all the points we could be getting. I much rather you took the top 5 scores and averaged them out. A lot less pressure to enter for 12 weeks. That's 3 months DD, lots can happen in that time frame and Dec is coming around too, big month for many.

Just my thoughts.

Message edited by author 2008-09-08 09:09:38.
09/08/2008 09:14:20 AM · #4
Originally posted by Jac:

My team will be punished if I don't enter a challenge during the week. I hadn't planned on entering 12 challenges in a row though. The reason we have 8 people is to let some rest one week or if they have something important to do, the others can take up the slack. With your point system the whole team has to enter each week or else we don't get all the points we could be getting. I much rather you took the top 5 scores and averaged them out. A lot less pressure to enter for 12 weeks. That's 3 months DD, lots can happen in that time frame and Dec is coming around too, big month for many.

Just my thoughts.


I agree as well. I don't think you should be punished for not entering if your team has 5 entries.

If you still decided you want the "O" points, maybe they could have less value (such as 10% of the DPCO-III points) (5 DPCOIII + 0.8 "O" = Overall Score)
09/08/2008 09:17:24 AM · #5
Originally posted by jeger:

So...

DPCO-III points + "O" points = overall score

Correct?


Correct
09/08/2008 09:20:20 AM · #6
Originally posted by Jac:

My team will be punished if I don't enter a challenge during the week. I hadn't planned on entering 12 challenges in a row though. The reason we have 8 people is to let some rest one week or if they have something important to do, the others can take up the slack. With your point system the whole team has to enter each week or else we don't get all the points we could be getting. I much rather you took the top 5 scores and averaged them out. A lot less pressure to enter for 12 weeks. That's 3 months DD, lots can happen in that time frame and Dec is coming around too, big month for many.

Just my thoughts.


Do you think that you will be the only team that doens't have all 8 members enter???

Have a look at last seasons entries... Look for red.

Link

I don't expect everyone to enter every challenge every week (well except for Poland). I know that things come up and people can't enter. But it's the only way to make things completely even.
09/08/2008 09:33:29 AM · #7
OK That all seems fair to me, bring it on.
09/08/2008 09:47:15 AM · #8
Originally posted by MAK:

OK That all seems fair to me, bring it on.


LOL You know what though with all the entries you guys had you deserved the win.

09/08/2008 10:00:28 AM · #9
What happened to the much better idea of the score being calculated as the difference from the player's average???

If I have a 5.5 average at the start and then score a 6.0, I added +0.5 to our team's score. If I scored a 5.0, then I added a -0.5. These then get added up for the best score over-average.

We formed teams based on your suggesting/agreement of this (because then skill level didn't matter and it was for fun). But now the teams with ringers have the deck stacked in their favor. Which will result in less competition.
09/08/2008 10:05:53 AM · #10
Originally posted by Jac:

My team will be punished if I don't enter a challenge during the week. I hadn't planned on entering 12 challenges in a row though. The reason we have 8 people is to let some rest one week or if they have something important to do, the others can take up the slack. With your point system the whole team has to enter each week or else we don't get all the points we could be getting. I much rather you took the top 5 scores and averaged them out. A lot less pressure to enter for 12 weeks. That's 3 months DD, lots can happen in that time frame and Dec is coming around too, big month for many.

Just my thoughts.


Don't think of it as being punished for not entering more than five images. Think of it as being rewarded for entering more than five.
09/08/2008 10:07:29 AM · #11
DD I havent participated in one of these before only DPL and this sounds good to me, after all it is all for fun in the end, or isnt it? Maybe some people take it a bit too seriously, heck look at my last few entries, they have bombed!!!

Lets all just have fun guys, I think that if we make it too complicated then it loses it's attraction.
09/08/2008 10:07:31 AM · #12
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

What happened to the much better idea of the score being calculated as the difference from the player's average???

If I have a 5.5 average at the start and then score a 6.0, I added +0.5 to our team's score. If I scored a 5.0, then I added a -0.5. These then get added up for the best score over-average.

We formed teams based on your suggesting/agreement of this (because then skill level didn't matter and it was for fun). But now the teams with ringers have the deck stacked in their favor. Which will result in less competition.


I didn't do this because I didn't think it was completely fair to people that have entered over 100 challenges.

Think of it like this, If you have a team of people that have only entered say 20 challenges and a team that entered 200+ challenges, how hard will it be for the team that has more challenges to enter to score those extra points vs. the team that barely has to do any work at all?

The scoring system I have in place right now is based off of last years with the minor factor that you can earn extra points for entering as a team.

I also updated the points awarded to each team. My main problem was I had teams that would be tied for the first 5 weeks of the challenge. I had to manually go in and adjust them each week so you could see the teams in order. This way I will not have too.

The way I have it now is really a more equal way of everyone getting points and working to get them.

And BTW I don't see a stacked team yet.
09/08/2008 10:08:56 AM · #13
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by Jac:

My team will be punished if I don't enter a challenge during the week. I hadn't planned on entering 12 challenges in a row though. The reason we have 8 people is to let some rest one week or if they have something important to do, the others can take up the slack. With your point system the whole team has to enter each week or else we don't get all the points we could be getting. I much rather you took the top 5 scores and averaged them out. A lot less pressure to enter for 12 weeks. That's 3 months DD, lots can happen in that time frame and Dec is coming around too, big month for many.

Just my thoughts.


Do you think that you will be the only team that doens't have all 8 members enter???

Have a look at last seasons entries... Look for red.

Link

I don't expect everyone to enter every challenge every week (well except for Poland). I know that things come up and people can't enter. But it's the only way to make things completely even.


That's a weak argument DD. Teams that put the effort to enter all 12 challenges will win, therefore putting pressure on all of us to enter each week. That's all I'll say about it though.
09/08/2008 10:10:30 AM · #14
Originally posted by loriprophoto:

DD I havent participated in one of these before only DPL and this sounds good to me, after all it is all for fun in the end, or isnt it? Maybe some people take it a bit too seriously, heck look at my last few entries, they have bombed!!!

Lets all just have fun guys, I think that if we make it too complicated then it loses it's attraction.
And to think all you have to do is enter and you earn the team extra points.

BTW everyone we are playing for a 20% membership discount for the 1st place team, a 100% discount for the MVP of the season and a date with Tad Hamilton :)
09/08/2008 10:20:11 AM · #15
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

What happened to the much better idea of the score being calculated as the difference from the player's average???

If I have a 5.5 average at the start and then score a 6.0, I added +0.5 to our team's score. If I scored a 5.0, then I added a -0.5. These then get added up for the best score over-average.

We formed teams based on your suggesting/agreement of this (because then skill level didn't matter and it was for fun). But now the teams with ringers have the deck stacked in their favor. Which will result in less competition.


I didn't do this because I didn't think it was completely fair to people that have entered over 100 challenges.

Think of it like this, If you have a team of people that have only entered say 20 challenges and a team that entered 200+ challenges, how hard will it be for the team that has more challenges to enter to score those extra points vs. the team that barely has to do any work at all?

The scoring system I have in place right now is based off of last years with the minor factor that you can earn extra points for entering as a team.

I also updated the points awarded to each team. My main problem was I had teams that would be tied for the first 5 weeks of the challenge. I had to manually go in and adjust them each week so you could see the teams in order. This way I will not have too.

The way I have it now is really a more equal way of everyone getting points and working to get them.

And BTW I don't see a stacked team yet.


I don't understand what you're saying about a team with more challenges vs. less challenges?

Actually, I had suggested the starting point be their average for the last 10-20 challenges. That would more accurately reflect their currently "ability" level WRT DPC voters, etc.

I don't care for the O-points either because it's like the "thanks for participating" bonus, not really based on skill. It's like a soccer game being decided on penalty kicks or some such.

Message edited by author 2008-09-08 10:21:00.
09/08/2008 10:28:22 AM · #16
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by Jac:

My team will be punished if I don't enter a challenge during the week. I hadn't planned on entering 12 challenges in a row though. The reason we have 8 people is to let some rest one week or if they have something important to do, the others can take up the slack. With your point system the whole team has to enter each week or else we don't get all the points we could be getting. I much rather you took the top 5 scores and averaged them out. A lot less pressure to enter for 12 weeks. That's 3 months DD, lots can happen in that time frame and Dec is coming around too, big month for many.

Just my thoughts.


Do you think that you will be the only team that doens't have all 8 members enter???

Have a look at last seasons entries... Look for red.

Link

I don't expect everyone to enter every challenge every week (well except for Poland). I know that things come up and people can't enter. But it's the only way to make things completely even.


That's a weak argument DD. Teams that put the effort to enter all 12 challenges will win, therefore putting pressure on all of us to enter each week. That's all I'll say about it though.


That's bot true, Here is some math for you.

Team A
8 people enter with a avg score of 5.5000
(all 8 people score a 5.500)
Team is A is in last place so they earn 1 point

Team B
5 of the 8 people enter with a avg score of 5.6
(5 people score a 5.600, 3 did not enter)
Team B is in first place so they earn 2 points

You're telling me that Team A is going to win???
Lets do the math,

Team A (5.5*8)/8=5.5
each member earns the team 1 "O" point so 8/8= 1
1+1= 2 (1 point for coming in second or last and 1 point for everyone entering)

Team B (5.6*5)/5=5.6
Only 5 people entered so they will get 5 points that are divided by 8
5/8=.625, add that to the 2 points they got for coming in first place
2+.625 = 2.625

Team B wins this week because they have a higher average even though only 5 of the 8 people entered.
Now do this math for all 16 teams. Trust me you or anyone else is not getting scammed or cheated in anyway.


09/08/2008 10:31:07 AM · #17
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:


Now do this math for all 16 teams. Trust me you or anyone else is not getting scammed or cheated in anyway.


Sort of begs the question what is the point then, if it makes no difference on who wins. Instead of giving people points just for showing up, why not take average of top 5 scores and fill the blanks with 0's if 5 weren't entered.

09/08/2008 10:32:29 AM · #18
Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:


Now do this math for all 16 teams. Trust me you or anyone else is not getting scammed or cheated in anyway.


Sort of begs the question what is the point then, if it makes no difference on who wins. Instead of giving people points just for showing up, why not take average of top 5 scores and fill the blanks with 0's if 5 weren't entered.


Now, with the scores possibly being much closer, the team with the most participation in the event of a tie will be declared the winner.
09/08/2008 10:40:47 AM · #19
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:


Think of it like this, If you have a team of people that have only entered say 20 challenges and a team that entered 200+ challenges, how hard will it be for the team that has more challenges to enter to score those extra points vs. the team that barely has to do any work at all?


You lost me on this one. Since I have no idea what type of scoring you were considering, I can not follow this arguement saying that it would not work for this reason.

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

I also updated the points awarded to each team. My main problem was I had teams that would be tied for the first 5 weeks of the challenge. I had to manually go in and adjust them each week so you could see the teams in order. This way I will not have too.


Again I do not understand problem. Why are ties bad? Is this a spreadsheet issue? That said having a Finish (1 to 16 points) + Attendance (0 to 1.00 points) should work fine and does not seem unfair or harmful. I was hoping that it would be handicaped somewhat to help out the low scorers but it should be fun anyway.

Thanks for your effort here -- just trying to undertand the process better.
09/08/2008 10:53:02 AM · #20
Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:


Now do this math for all 16 teams. Trust me you or anyone else is not getting scammed or cheated in anyway.


Sort of begs the question what is the point then, if it makes no difference on who wins. Instead of giving people points just for showing up, why not take average of top 5 scores and fill the blanks with 0's if 5 weren't entered.


I think it should just be the top 4 scores each week, period. PLUS one designated scorer. And each team member has to be the designated scorer at least once in the season.

Like a golf match.
09/08/2008 11:00:44 AM · #21
Originally posted by bobnospum:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:


Think of it like this, If you have a team of people that have only entered say 20 challenges and a team that entered 200+ challenges, how hard will it be for the team that has more challenges to enter to score those extra points vs. the team that barely has to do any work at all?


You lost me on this one. Since I have no idea what type of scoring you were considering, I can not follow this arguement saying that it would not work for this reason.

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

I also updated the points awarded to each team. My main problem was I had teams that would be tied for the first 5 weeks of the challenge. I had to manually go in and adjust them each week so you could see the teams in order. This way I will not have too.


Again I do not understand problem. Why are ties bad? Is this a spreadsheet issue? That said having a Finish (1 to 16 points) + Attendance (0 to 1.00 points) should work fine and does not seem unfair or harmful. I was hoping that it would be handicaped somewhat to help out the low scorers but it should be fun anyway.

Thanks for your effort here -- just trying to undertand the process better.


I had considered taking the overall average of a person and using that as their base score. Then give them + or - points depending on their next socre. So if I had a base score of 5.5 and I scored a 5.7 on a challenge you would subtract the difference (.2) and divide that by 12. So I would be getting a score of +.0166
09/08/2008 11:05:21 AM · #22
I look at it like this -- knowing that my entry will gain a point (or lose a potential one) for my team will force me to be a bit more diligent in shooting.

The more consistent I am in entering, the better I seem to do.
09/08/2008 11:05:33 AM · #23
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:


Now do this math for all 16 teams. Trust me you or anyone else is not getting scammed or cheated in anyway.


Sort of begs the question what is the point then, if it makes no difference on who wins. Instead of giving people points just for showing up, why not take average of top 5 scores and fill the blanks with 0's if 5 weren't entered.


I think it should just be the top 4 scores each week, period. PLUS one designated scorer. And each team member has to be the designated scorer at least once in the season.

Like a golf match.


I understand that I can not please everyone and there are many different ways to score this whole thing. I also understand that not everyone will like it up front but I promise it's not as bad as it seems. It's a fair system and it allows everyone to play on level ground. Just wait until you see it in action.

Maybe next season I will let you help me come up with a new scoring system and we'll see how everyone likes it.
09/08/2008 11:06:57 AM · #24
Soooo... We have a challenge, people voluntarily signed up to compete in the challenge, and then are upset because they are expected to show up?

I'm not quite getting the idea of joining a team with the idea of not really participating.

Perhaps we should just redo the signups, with the added proviso that we really expect you to play...

Or, take a random picture, upload it and get your point. If your personal pride won't let you post mediocre pictures, perhaps it could be extended to oh say, keeping commitments. Yes, it is easier for me to say, because my images are not all that great. OK, many are downright mediocre and deserve the scores that they recieve. But, I do try. And it just seems so silly to hear people complaining about having to participate in something they signed up to participate in.
09/08/2008 11:08:06 AM · #25
Originally posted by karmat:

I look at it like this -- knowing that my entry will gain a point (or lose a potential one) for my team will force me to be a bit more diligent in shooting.

The more consistent I am in entering, the better I seem to do.


Now you have the idea... The over all plan is to get better at photography and get people to shoot things they normally wouldn't shoot right???

Isn't that what this site is for?
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