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06/17/2002 03:41:15 PM · #1
My thoughts on the shadow photos...... There are some really good shots here this week. There are also some shots with shadows in them... I'm not going to rant this week like I did last week about meeting the challenge, but I will say that I had hoped that the 'shadows' submitted this week would be playing some definitel role in the photos rather than just being there by chance... Since the challenge topic is 'shadows' i feel that the shadow should be more than just a minor or 'by chance' element of the image...
06/17/2002 03:44:48 PM · #2
i totally agree. i suspect that's why i ended up giving a lot of high and low and not as many average ratings as usual.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
My thoughts on the shadow photos...... There are some really good shots here this week. There are also some shots with shadows in them... I'm not going to rant this week like I did last week about meeting the challenge, but I will say that I had hoped that the 'shadows' submitted this week would be playing some definitel role in the photos rather than just being there by chance... Since the challenge topic is 'shadows' i feel that the shadow should be more than just a minor or 'by chance' element of the image...



06/17/2002 03:52:14 PM · #3
jm....what you may call minor I may call significant :-)

My photo this week does not have hard edged, outlined shadows but...without the shadow element I could not get the "image" I wanted.

I am gettng spanked for this I imagine because technically the photo is very freakin good. No sour grapes from me..I am a very big boy. I am just saying I will not be forced into a very narrow definition of what a challenge is..even if I get all 1's. :-)

You made a comment about not getting my road shot while other folks were on the other end of the spectrum. Thats cool and TOTALLY legitimat...for you. But it proves my point here a bit. I think there is a lot of ways to work a challenge theme.

But you see, that is what photography is about. Being hard headed..heh.....
06/17/2002 04:00:24 PM · #4
I'm not trying to be hard headed.. as for your asphalt mirage photo.. hmm.. it's over my head. The quailty of the photo was good but i just could not determine how it fit the challenge... I read your comments on it and i am one of those with no painting experience and i had no idea what I was looking at... even if I did know, I still don't undertand this theme... Please enlighten me on what apsects of this photo relate it to the challenge other than the fact that you placed your subjects on an asphalt surface? If the theme of road heat is what you were shooting for, the paint and paint knife sent me into left field... I'm a southern redneck. We are all shallow and narrow minded :)

As for shadows, i will admit that I am looking for the shadow, as stated earlier, to be creating some 'effect' of have some above average presence in the photo...


Originally posted by hokie:
jm....what you may call minor I may call significant :-)

My photo this week does not have hard edged, outlined shadows but...without the shadow element I could not get the "image" I wanted.

I am gettng spanked for this I imagine because technically the photo is very freakin good. No sour grapes from me..I am a very big boy. I am just saying I will not be forced into a very narrow definition of what a challenge is..even if I get all 1's. :-)

You made a comment about not getting my road shot while other folks were on the other end of the spectrum. Thats cool and TOTALLY legitimat...for you. But it proves my point here a bit. I think there is a lot of ways to work a challenge theme.

But you see, that is what photography is about. Being hard headed..heh.....



06/17/2002 04:18:21 PM · #5
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I'm not trying to be hard headed.. as for your asphalt mirage photo.. hmm.. it's over my head. The quailty of the photo was good but i just could not determine how it fit the challenge... I read your comments on it and i am one of those with no painting experience and i had no idea what I was looking at... even if I did know, I still don't undertand this theme... Please enlighten me on what apsects of this photo relate it to the challenge other than the fact that you placed your subjects on an asphalt surface? If the theme of road heat is what you were shooting for, the paint and paint knife sent me into left field... I'm a southern redneck. We are all shallow and narrow minded :)

As for shadows, i will admit that I am looking for the shadow, as stated earlier, to be creating some 'effect' of have some above average presence in the photo...


I'm not calling you hard-headed jm any more than I am hard headed, sticking to your guns, etc... I was referring to me.

To me the "On the Road" theme simply implied road related photos. Stuff you see "On the road". How is a mirage on the road so far from a "Toad on the road" ?

When you are "on the road" in a car, walking, bicycling you see the "Asphalt Mirage" ahead. That wavy heat generated pattern that..to me....implies those desert mirages. Hence the use of a desert image with a mirage like effect.

So I wanted to take that idea further. To paint..if you will..the imagery. I did not expect everyone to get it. Art is not about "EVERYONE" getting it. Beer commercials are about everyone getting it.

I am not here to butt heads with you jm. Quite frankly..my creativity is not what I am trying to sharpen here or force on others. I am not a practiced photographer but I want to be a better one to open up options. Meaning taking my images in my eyes to their best photographic realization.

What that may mean is that I create things using the photographic medium instead of paint or sculpting or the written word. I envision some of my photography going beyond even what can be printed out on paper into maybe experimenting with mixed media ( a combination of photos, painting and objects ) to get the 3 dimensionality I want. I don't know yet. I am at the infancy of the hobby to me.

I still like taking pictures of flowers and cats and other stuff too :-)
06/17/2002 04:24:25 PM · #6
I hope I'm not implying that I want to butt heads either... lol.. I scored that photo a 7.

This site has also caused me to explore new areas of photography. I, unlike you and others here, have absolutely NO artistic background. Because of this, I often have a hard time interpreting lots of things I see here...
06/17/2002 04:36:55 PM · #7
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I hope I'm not implying that I want to butt heads either... lol.. I scored that photo a 7.

This site has also caused me to explore new areas of photography...


I "got it" and scored it a 7 also -- go figure...
06/17/2002 04:47:38 PM · #8
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I hope I'm not implying that I want to butt heads either... lol.. I scored that photo a 7.

This site has also caused me to explore new areas of photography. I, unlike you and others here, have absolutely NO artistic background. Because of this, I often have a hard time interpreting lots of things I see here...


I thought that it had a strong tie-in. There was a painting with a road and the stripe became the squeezed out oil paint laying on the real road. I guess that we each see things differently is how we... ahem, strech one another.

I do agree with John on the shadow photos. I see some with a very loose tie-in to the challenge, a lot of "shadows" and a few really good and original photos.

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think that the constraint of the challenge topic is part of the challenge and I score that tie-in as part of the vote. If I see an otherwise perfect photo, but with virtually no tie-in to the challenge topic, then I cannot score it a perfect 10. If a photo has flaws, but a creative and strong tie-in with the topic, then I will likely score it higher than I might have otherwise.
06/17/2002 05:00:13 PM · #9
I see both sides of this issue... Expanding your parameters as a photographer by forcing yourself to investigate different approaches to your subject is the challenge after all- On one hand, perhaps narrowing your scope a bit and taking the challenges literally (an actual photo of a shadow) and on the other, simply using the challenge as a guideline (shadow is apparent in the photo but not central) are both options as far as I'm concerned.
06/17/2002 05:03:20 PM · #10
Originally posted by Gene L.:

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think that the constraint of the challenge topic is part of the challenge and I score that tie-in as part of the vote. If I see an otherwise perfect photo, but with virtually no tie-in to the challenge topic, then I cannot score it a perfect 10. If a photo has flaws, but a creative and strong tie-in with the topic, then I will likely score it higher than I might have otherwise.[/i]

I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but everyone in this challange knew of and followed the constraints of the challenge in their own way. I'm a little frustrated by the comments I got for my admittedly obscure road entry. You don't like it, or you don't understand the connection, fine. Then nail me to a wall, but at least understand that I did I did what I did with a purpose, and that there was a connection in my mind. Having said that about my first entry, I am enjoying this site and this group, and the comments are helping me to understand photography more. Thanks. By the way, this week's entry is less problamatic.
06/17/2002 05:23:16 PM · #11
sheyingshi88 - for me, part of the challenge is to make the connection between my shot and the challenge accessible to a large group of people. now, i know i'm not going to get everyone to make the connection, we are a too diverse bunch here. however, if i don't see the connection (or just a weak one) in someone's shot, i will take that into account when voting. that vote reflects that *i* don't see a strong connection. it does not reflect that the *author* probably sees a very obvious connection. that's just how it goes.

Originally posted by sheyingshi88:
Originally posted by Gene L.:

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think that the constraint of the challenge topic is part of the challenge and I score that tie-in as part of the vote. If I see an otherwise perfect photo, but with virtually no tie-in to the challenge topic, then I cannot score it a perfect 10. If a photo has flaws, but a creative and strong tie-in with the topic, then I will likely score it higher than I might have otherwise.


I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but everyone in this challange knew of and followed the constraints of the challenge in their own way. I'm a little frustrated by the comments I got for my admittedly obscure road entry. You don't like it, or you don't understand the connection, fine. Then nail me to a wall, but at least understand that I did I did what I did with a purpose, and that there was a connection in my mind. Having said that about my first entry, I am enjoying this site and this group, and the comments are helping me to understand photography more. Thanks. By the way, this week's entry is less problamatic.
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06/17/2002 06:01:41 PM · #12
Why don''t you just trust that the ones without shadows that play a "definite role"....i.e. like mine..lol.....that they are not going to fare as well no matter what anyone''s opinions are specifically? I''m wishing I could just pull mine out right about now but hey...I can''t. I got one comment about the difference between shade and shadows and I''m really not sure what the difference is...so I''m utterly confused. I''m just going to trust that I won''t be going above a 5 this week....but I still like my pic and I think, after looking at everyone elses'', that maybe it wasn''t going in the right direction for everyone here this week....but, I''ll say this again...I like it.

And to me..that''s pretty much all that matters...I''ll just roll with the punches I''m getting in here. :)

oh...and have a nice day :)

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/17/2002 6:01:52 PM.
06/17/2002 06:20:29 PM · #13
I think i'm over it now :)
06/17/2002 07:18:31 PM · #14
I am really disappointed by the literal, narrow-minded interpretations so many people use to judge the photographs. As artists we should really try to be creative and explore a topic, not find the narrowest definition.

The photo by sheyingshi88 is a perfect example. Rodeo's are a touring operation, just like a fair, they are always "On the Road". Taking a summer road trip may lead someone into a town with a rodeo, this is something you may see when you are "On the Road".

I am so glad to see creative photos that make me think how it may tie into the assignment. I was so tired of seeing yellow lines and photos of roses, people, ad nasuem, "On the Road", that this was really a breath of fresh air.

I personally felt that most of the shots that had a road in it really missed the point of the assignment. "On the Road" to me means things you would see on the road. Not one picture of an old diner or a gas station. I thought there would at least be a close up of a gas pump or nozzle.

Let's open our minds as well as our shutters.



Originally posted by sheyingshi88:
Originally posted by Gene L.:

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think that the constraint of the challenge topic is part of the challenge and I score that tie-in as part of the vote. If I see an otherwise perfect photo, but with virtually no tie-in to the challenge topic, then I cannot score it a perfect 10. If a photo has flaws, but a creative and strong tie-in with the topic, then I will likely score it higher than I might have otherwise.


I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but everyone in this challange knew of and followed the constraints of the challenge in their own way. I'm a little frustrated by the comments I got for my admittedly obscure road entry. You don't like it, or you don't understand the connection, fine. Then nail me to a wall, but at least understand that I did I did what I did with a purpose, and that there was a connection in my mind. Having said that about my first entry, I am enjoying this site and this group, and the comments are helping me to understand photography more. Thanks. By the way, this week's entry is less problamatic.
[/i]


06/17/2002 07:23:21 PM · #15
I'm startin to get ad naseum from the kids, flowers, sunsets, and pets too...
06/17/2002 08:56:27 PM · #16
I never tire of a good photograph.

I have made some interesting photos but by and large I have yet to get a feeling of what I want my photos to be.

Sometimes I want to be experimental like "Eye Variations", sometimes literal like "Tea Time at Martha Stewarts". Sometimes good old fashioned sappy like "C'est La Vie". I just can't help but put a stamp on a photo though. Even my games photo had to have that semi-real quality. I sense that about what I want. I somehow want that surreal look. Its probably why I dumped my "Polarized" photograph..even though technically it was a better photo than my current entry.

The painful thing for many amatuer photographers is finding that rythm. That way to take a photo that says "me". It's even harder when you are trying to find yourself AND learn the technical side of a camera as well.

I freely admit that most of my entries are a work in progress. They are portions of where I am going. Not fully realized but somehow reaching for something.

In the current issue of Shutterbug there is an interview with master photographer Freeman Patterson. He goes into greater detail about the idea of creativity and the workshops he runs in Canada. I suggest you guys that are interested go pick up a copy. That article alone is worth the $4.
06/17/2002 09:20:15 PM · #17
I agree with you, Hokie. Not only never tire of a good photo, but there are those who have made it their career to photograph flowers, babies, etc, etc. But I can see JM's and other's side of it, too.... but I guess it all comes back to: "If you're gonna do it, do it well!" ;-)
06/17/2002 09:32:31 PM · #18
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
I agree with you, Hokie. Not only never tire of a good photo, but there are those who have made it their career to photograph flowers, babies, etc, etc. But I can see JM's and other's side of it, too.... but I guess it all comes back to: "If you're gonna do it, do it well!" ;-)


Karen,

I think your comment here captures the essence of the issue quite well... As I have said here many times before, there is no such thing as a 'cliche' shot for me... There are shots that have been done over and over again, yet it is still possible to add a new perspective to just about anything out there if you put your mind to it. I think I have found a partucilar topic that I enjoy for my 'hobby' side of photography... I have found great interest in railroad and train photos and those, for sure, have been done over and over again.

I also have a library of flowers, kids, and pets. I don't do sunsets though.. lol.. I think I have done ONE sunset in my entire life.. and it wasn't very good.

:)
06/17/2002 10:00:06 PM · #19
I did not expect everyone to get it. Art is not about "EVERYONE" getting it. Beer commercials are about everyone getting it.

Do you think that my "On the road" photo could be called art, or is it a beer commercial?

I liked yours by the way.
06/17/2002 10:11:42 PM · #20
well, i didnt' get it, so that either proves that i'm a true blonde or you created art. maybe even both! it certainly didn't make me want to go out and drink beer, so it sucked as a beer commercial! :)

Originally posted by liltool:
I did not expect everyone to get it. Art is not about "EVERYONE" getting it. Beer commercials are about everyone getting it.

Do you think that my "On the road" photo could be called art, or is it a beer commercial?

I liked yours by the way.



06/17/2002 10:33:38 PM · #21
Is it a close up of a stop light? It was not dynamic enough for me, the tones are two subdued. It was definitely unique!

Originally posted by liltool:
I did not expect everyone to get it. Art is not about "EVERYONE" getting it. Beer commercials are about everyone getting it.

Do you think that my "On the road" photo could be called art, or is it a beer commercial?

I liked yours by the way.



[/i]


06/17/2002 10:41:24 PM · #22
I didn't think was a "Create your own Art" challenge. I thought it was a cool place where I could share some of my photos and get some good advice. One of the coments Ive recieved says" dosent look like a set up shot.........well guess what ,it wasnt a set up shot. It was just a shot that happened to catch my eye. I shot it, I liked it, and so I went with it.
06/17/2002 10:46:59 PM · #23
boyte1, as i already stated in my comments, yours was one of my top 10. i didnt' think it was a 'snapshot' (for lack of a better word describing a non-setup photo), but to me, it also didnt have the usual snapshot trade marks (things seemingly sticking out of the main object, distracting back- or foreground, etc, 'wrong' focus.). i'd love to be taking 'snapshots' that look as good as your entry to 'on the road'. :)

to be more generic - this IS a cool place to share some of your photos and get good feedback. just take the occasional comment with a grain of salt. if you see a repeating theme in the comments you get, then consider it good advice for your next photo.

Originally posted by boyte1:
I didn't think was a "Create your own Art" challenge. I thought it was a cool place where I could share some of my photos and get some good advice. One of the coments Ive recieved says" dosent look like a set up shot.........well guess what ,it wasnt a set up shot. It was just a shot that happened to catch my eye. I shot it, I liked it, and so I went with it.


06/17/2002 11:01:53 PM · #24
This whole issue of creativity vs. a narrow definition of the challenge is such an elusive one. My photo this week has a couple of layers of shadow, one being the focus, but others there for people to look at and think about if they care enough (but I don't think my photo is interesting enough for people to linger on it very long). So far, people have only said that the other shadows are distracting and should have been eliminated. They seem to think I didn't have enough control over the situation. One person commented that it makes it seem like a snapshot... I don't get that at all!

It's not just that you need to be obvious about your compliance to the theme in this place, it also seems as though you have to be obvious in your treatment of it. A staged photo has to be completely staged, a photo with a subject has to be completely filled up by the subject, etc. I just have no clue how I would go about satisfying all the expectations of the majority of voters. People who do that for a living get a lot of respect from me now :). I just take photos because it's a fun distraction, and that's all.
06/17/2002 11:20:34 PM · #25
There are a lot of ways to look at photography.

I will paraphase a quote from Freeman Patterson

He says that many people spend time looking for photographs to TAKE when there are endless photographs to MAKE right in front of you.

One of the things he does on his first day at his seminars is he asks students "Give me a number between 1 and 40". Somebody will yell out a number, say "17". Freeman will take his camera and tripod..walk 17 paces, set his equipment and shoot a roll of film never shifting his camera more than 45 degrees.

So I say the same thing. There are endless photos to MAKE and putting an emphasis on taking is really a limit on your creativity.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/17/2002 11:20:22 PM.
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