Is there a "sixth sense"? - DPChallenge Forums

08/25/2008 06:21:45 PM · #251

//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26395876/

"A study of Google Earth satellite images has revealed that herds of cattle tend to face in the north-south direction of Earth's magnetic lines.

Staring at cows may not equal the thrill of spotting celebrities in public or rubbernecking at car accidents, but the researchers found nonetheless that our bovine friends display this strange sixth sense for direction. "

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

08/25/2008 06:40:10 PM · #252

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
I do the right thing because it pleases God that I do these things and because I love him.

This is still an immoral position. You should do the right thing because it is the right thing. You should do the right thing because other human beings benefit from it. You should do the right thing because you love your fellows.

It is incontrovertibly immoral and unethical to do the right thing for any other reasons.

Pretty nit picky don't you think? It pleases God because it is the right thing and my fellow humans which are His benefit from it and besides how can it be immoral to do the right thing. You may not be doing it for the 'right' reason but nonetheless it is right by definition.

raish

Olympus C-2500L

08/25/2008 06:52:19 PM · #253

Talk about six senses, you'd be lucky to find one around here.

If your moral criteria are those that you understood to have been delineated by god or by those who represent him in your religion, then doing what god or god's spokespeople say is morally right.

Morals of themselves are not absolute. You may find a system or framework for your moral criteria and/or a consensus group to reinforce your belief in those morals. Acting in accordance with those morals is then doing the right thing.

When you do what is right according to your morals, it is not right by definition (except to the extent that you accept your moral guidelines as a definition for your own morals). You find and, ultimately, choose your moral code. Morality is not absolute, it is choice and decision.

Fortunately we're all pretty much agreed about what's right and what isn't in the big picture, so all this is just words. If you going to use words though, it's an idea to get them right.

Message edited by author 2008-08-25 18:53:06.

08/25/2008 07:44:36 PM · #254

Originally posted by crayon:

Dear Samuel94720 - you've gotta learn to let go, and accept that, in this world, among billions of people alive, there are bound to be people having opinions which differ from yours. you just gotta accept that. stop trying so hard to prove everyone wrong just because you dont share their opinions, thoughts, or believe. sheesh... you need a woodie.

Always worth remembering this:

Originally posted by Stephen Fry:

"Americans are not raised in a tradition of debate and ...the adversarial ferocity common around a dinner table in Britain is more or less unheard of in America."

(from about half way down this page ("Getting Overheated"))

08/25/2008 08:22:53 PM · #255

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Speaking of vestigial, I think common sense has largely disappeared from the human race ... perhaps that's why we're left with only five ... and are at risk of engineering our own extinction. Talk about your bad mutations ... :-(

Don't worry - humans have around 20 senses - //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense

Far more than most people give themselves credit for!

08/25/2008 08:29:39 PM · #256

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

What's the difference between intuition and a sixth sense?

I'm using them interchangeably, maybe incorrectly.

I had always thought them the same except maybe for degree.

The referenced book "Blink" does a really good job of explaining some research into intuition and how it appears to operate. It is not paranormal. It does explain some apparent "sixth senses".

It is also worth remembering that different senses feed information to the brain at different speed. It is very easy to receive information back for processing at different times, resulting in some temporal confusion.

08/25/2008 08:50:50 PM · #257

Derren Brown produced a very good show called "the System" that demonstrated how people can be fooled through relying on their subjective views when assessing probability.

Derren Brown showed a film where he contacted a random individual ("Khadisha") and over the course of a few weeks gave her tips on horse racing upon which she duly betted gradually more and more money. In each case, her horse won (the "System" - an apparently infallible method for predicting horse race winners). She won increasingly large amounts of money from independent bookmakers, sometimes with horses that were far from the favourite. The odds against it were extraordinary - 7,776 to 1 - but it happened and was filmed for posterity.

However, of course there was no "System" - just 7,775 other people whom Derren Brown had also contacted and filmed, who all betted on different horses so that he bet on every horse with a participant on film - every other one of whom lost at some point down the track. Khadisha was lucky in that she was the one who got the winners - but the "System" of betting on all the horses every time was guaranteed to have one winner.

Khadisha was utterly convinced of the effectiveness of the System. She had undeniable success with it. But it was nothing but the absolute certainty of probability. Her belief (based upon sound experience from her point of view) was the product of confirmation bias - nothing more.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

08/25/2008 09:02:03 PM · #258

Originally posted by raish:

Point taken but in the context of my reply we are assuming that doing the right thing is a black and white affair. To some 'doing right' may not be the same as what I consider 'doing right' but looking at the motivation for the action does not change the 'rightness' of the act. I hope that makes sense.

rox_rox

Canon EOS-20D

08/25/2008 09:16:13 PM · #259

BeeCee, Although I said I'd stay out of this thread, I thought of you when I read this article:

Cattle shown to align north-south, BBC.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

08/25/2008 09:27:46 PM · #260

Beat you to it 8 posts back. :-P

It was ignored...

:-P

rox_rox

Canon EOS-20D

08/25/2008 09:31:09 PM · #261

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Beat you to it 8 posts back. :-P

It was ignored...

:-P

Oh, my bad. I was following along for a while, but got discouraged. FWIW, great link, Erick:) Thanks for sharing.

Edit: I'm browsing Google Earth around my home town, looking for cattle.

Message edited by author 2008-08-25 21:33:00.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

08/25/2008 09:40:21 PM · #262

Moo!

rox_rox

Canon EOS-20D

08/25/2008 09:42:32 PM · #263

Correction:

M
O
O
!

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/25/2008 10:22:14 PM · #264

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Guessing that there's a Northern Hemisphere bias to this research, I think it doesn't take a very smart cow to stand with its back to the sun, as I don't know of anywhere where cows are issued sunglasses -- the visual sense alone will do quite nicely for determining a northerly orientation.

crayon

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FH1

08/25/2008 10:30:40 PM · #265

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26395876/

"A study of Google Earth satellite images has revealed that herds of cattle tend to face in the north-south direction of Earth's magnetic lines.

Staring at cows may not equal the thrill of spotting celebrities in public or rubbernecking at car accidents, but the researchers found nonetheless that our bovine friends display this strange sixth sense for direction. "

Guessing that there's a Northern Hemisphere bias to this research, I think it doesn't take a very smart cow to stand with its back to the sun, as I don't know of anywhere where cows are issued sunglasses -- the visual sense alone will do quite nicely for determining a northerly orientation.

Copied from the MSNBC article: "Both cattle and deer faced a more magnetic north-south direction rather than geographic north-south, (Earth's magnetic poles do not line up perfectly with the North and South Poles)."

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

08/25/2008 10:41:21 PM · #266

There's also research that indicates migratory birds navigate by following the earth's magnetic field, there's some part of their brain that allows them to "see" the field.

I'd call that fascinating, but not a sixth sense in the usual sense of the phrase.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

08/25/2008 10:49:34 PM · #267

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Sharks too!

It affects the Ampullae of Lorenzini it is a sensing organ and a real probable "Sixth sense".

raish

Olympus C-2500L

08/26/2008 03:01:13 AM · #268

Originally posted by dponlyme:

[quote=raish] snipp

Point taken but in the context of my reply we are assuming that doing the right thing is a black and white affair. To some 'doing right' may not be the same as what I consider 'doing right' but looking at the motivation for the action does not change the 'rightness' of the act. I hope that makes sense.

As a customer once told me in my barkeeping days (I had served him up his usual before he asked for it): "Never presume".

Otherwise, if it works for you . . . :-)

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

08/26/2008 06:43:49 AM · #269

Roz and Erick, thank you for the links :)

Spazmo, wouldn't it be a sense beyond the classical "five senses", making it a sixth sense?
------
I made a mistake in my first posts in not clarifying what phenomenon I was referring to, as several are lumped under the same classification of "sixth sense", and some I just don't believe are possible, such as precognition.
I meant telepathy, the ability to pick up mentalsignals from others.

I just don't understand why most people define it as necessarily supernatural. Why can it NOT be perfectly natural physical phenomenon, simply not yet able to be pinpointed by scientests? And, for me, Sam's argument that science can't measure it in a lab just isn't proof of non-existance.

I have my theories. I'm simply looking for explanations why my theories aren't (or are) possible.
I've just been reading on the brain's magnetic fields as one of the possibilities (doesn't look hopeful) but at 3am I'm having problems focusing enough to sift through the scientific jargon :)

edit; oops, missed finishing a sentence. Fixed now! (shouldn't post in the middle of the night...)

Message edited by author 2008-08-26 07:42:39.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

08/26/2008 07:08:26 AM · #270

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Spazmo, wouldn't it be a sense beyond the classical "five senses", making it a sixth sense?
------

Maybe, but that's not what is implied by the term "sixth sense".

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/26/2008 07:46:59 AM · #271

Originally posted by rox_rox:

Correction:
M
O
O
!

ROFLMAO! I guess that's why they're called steers.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

08/26/2008 08:49:30 AM · #272

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
I do the right thing because it pleases God that I do these things and because I love him.

This is still an immoral position. You should do the right thing because it is the right thing. You should do the right thing because other human beings benefit from it. You should do the right thing because you love your fellows.

It is incontrovertibly immoral and unethical to do the right thing for any other reasons.

Pretty nit picky don't you think?

No, I don't consider it nitpicky to point out that you are acting morally (presumably) not because you have a love for humanity, but because you are dogmatically attached to your particular deity, which you've never seen nor experienced outside your own imagination. It's not wrong to suggest that you have no particular love for humanity at all, if this is the lens through which you view the universe. Your behaviour is not in the strictest definition of the words ethical or moral at all.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

08/26/2008 10:06:10 AM · #273

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
I do the right thing because it pleases God that I do these things and because I love him.

This is still an immoral position. You should do the right thing because it is the right thing. You should do the right thing because other human beings benefit from it. You should do the right thing because you love your fellows.

It is incontrovertibly immoral and unethical to do the right thing for any other reasons.

Pretty nit picky don't you think?

No, I don't consider it nitpicky to point out that you are acting morally (presumably) not because you have a love for humanity, but because you are dogmatically attached to your particular deity, which you've never seen nor experienced outside your own imagination. It's not wrong to suggest that you have no particular love for humanity at all, if this is the lens through which you view the universe. Your behaviour is not in the strictest definition of the words ethical or moral at all.

I suppose you are right that I am in the strictest most humanistic terms not what YOU would consider moral or ethical. We do have a different 'lens' that we see the world through and I'm sure that we don't agree on what is 'right' all of the time. You attach morality to self and I attach morality to God. I believe morality exists outside of myself and you believe that you define it. I try to do God's will and you try to do your own out of your own sense of morality. I would think that mostly though we agree on what is moral regardless of how we have arrived at it or what our motivations are for being moral.

Louis

Nikon D800

08/26/2008 11:23:49 AM · #274

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I would think that mostly though we agree on what is moral regardless of how we have arrived at it or what our motivations are for being moral.

Yes. And I would suggest that because of this, morality is not sourced from any god, because you don't need the bible to tell you that it's wrong to kill your neighbour and rape his wife, and you don't need God to tell you that wilfully adding to the world's quota of human suffering is a bad thing.