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08/13/2008 01:51:10 PM · #176 |
I'll dig up the video where Obama says that kids with asthma should all have access to a BREATHALIZER .
I'm not sure of the exact quote but he wanted to say INHALER.
What a dumbass !
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
But with those that have already raped they have set the precedent and been incarcerated. They have shown themselves a danger to society. They have given up their right to be thought of in any other way except for rapist.
Whats the old saying "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!" I would rather the offender be put under a microscope and their life made miserable in hopes of protecting that little girl. Sorry bad guy but you don't get to go do it again. |
Yes, I agree, as a society we can come to the conclusion that we value the safety of our children higher than the rights of the prisoners and therefore keep them locked up.
P.S.: I think you got that saying wrong: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A ;-) |
Message edited by author 2008-08-13 13:53:31. |
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08/13/2008 01:56:42 PM · #177 |
So what your saying is that there are no guns, bad people, or gangs in Europe? What rock are you living under? This is reality. Right now. In this forum. You are proposing fantasy, which besides movies and books will never exist in this world. Please, get over yourself and open your eyes. You don't hear about people getting killed, raped, and robbed EVERY day because this is a perfect world where criminals can be fixed.
ps - Lynch! lol
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Really? Try that in the neighborhood where I grew up. First off, if they didn't know you, they would probably beat you into a coma, or to death. Second, if you really had the sack to tell them something, no one would ever find your dead, lifeless body with a bullet in your head. That may work in some neighborhood around where you live or work, but it's highly unlikely to happen in the non-beaver neighborhoods throughout a lot of this country. These kids kill cops, why would they possibly listen to you explain what a sign is for and that it is wrong? Get out of the fantasy world your in and open up your eyes. Obviously, you have been shielded from reality for a really long time, as in the movie "The Truman Show". |
I told you of an actual experience I had. There were many similar ones. This is reality. At least here in Europe. I don't have to be afraid of getting a bullet in my head.
The place you live in seems to be very different. Why do you think this is the case? |
Message edited by author 2008-08-13 13:58:01. |
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08/13/2008 01:58:11 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
So you are saying you would prefer the criminals to stay on the streets? Sorry pal, but not what I want. |
Nobody ever suggested that. You seem to think that we can either punish criminals harshly or not hold them responsible at all. There are many alternatives in between.
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Let's go for broke; an eye for an eye. Want to prevent crime, let someone know that if they shoot or rape someone, or commit any crime, they will get the same treatment back? Deters me from ever doing anything, no matter how bad off I am. |
Sounds very practical. So if someone robs a bank, you do the same to them? If someone rapes, you do the same to them (would this be a job?)? If someone sells pirated videos you do the same to them? If I take sell drugs to someone you sell drugs to me? You see this doesn't make any sense. And as you explained yourself, punishment doesn't seem to work as a deterrent. |
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08/13/2008 02:00:02 PM · #179 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
I'll dig up the video where Obama says that kids with asthma should all have access to a BREATHALIZER .
I'm not sure of the exact quote but he wanted to say INHALER.
What a dumbass ! |
Let's not stray off topic. (I'm telling you if you want to start a competition collecting stupid quotes of Bush, McCain and Obama, you'll lose. ;-) ) |
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08/13/2008 02:00:12 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
And then there may be people who have never committed a crime before, but who are more likely to rape that girl than some former prisoner. So we should lock those up, too, just to be on the safe side. |
Come on! Now we are back to the "Thoughtcrime" and totalitarian ideologies. We can't "go there" in this discussion. |
Yes, you are right, I don't want to continue the discussion in that direction. However, if you say that the probability that someone will rape a child should determine whether we keep them locked up or not, it would only be logical to extend this concept to those not yet in prison. You are right, this would be problematic because we would punish people for crimes they might commit in the future. However, you have to realize that we are doing exactly the same with people who did rape. If we keep them locked up after they served their sentence, we are punishing them for crimes they might commit in the future. It's a trade-off between the safety needs of the society and the rights of the individual. |
I'll take the safety of myself, family and friends over the rights of the criminal. Oh wait, when you are a criminal, you give up your rights. Now, what rights are we talking about? |
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08/13/2008 02:01:20 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
We may drink RC Cola and eat Moon Pies here in Louisiana but we know how to dish out the justice !
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RC Cola is the best! (really, drink it sometime - it rocks) |
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08/13/2008 02:02:15 PM · #182 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
So what your saying is that there are no guns, bad people, or gangs in Europe? What rock are you living under? This is reality. Right now. In this forum. You are proposing fantasy, which besides movies and books will never exist in this world. Please, get over yourself and open your eyes. You don't hear about people getting killed, raped, and robbed EVERY day because this is a perfect world where criminals can be fixed. |
Many people here seem to enjoy repeating a mantra like "Criminals are BAD! The world is BAD! It will never change!". Why?
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids. |
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08/13/2008 02:07:37 PM · #183 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
So what your saying is that there are no guns, bad people, or gangs in Europe? What rock are you living under? This is reality. Right now. In this forum. You are proposing fantasy, which besides movies and books will never exist in this world. Please, get over yourself and open your eyes. You don't hear about people getting killed, raped, and robbed EVERY day because this is a perfect world where criminals can be fixed. |
Many people here seem to enjoy repeating a mantra like "Criminals are BAD! The world is BAD! It will never change!". Why?
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids. |
Would it be alright with you if we [America] sent all of our convicted repast, murderers, and drug traffickers to your country for five years to see if your country can fix them? |
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08/13/2008 02:08:50 PM · #184 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
So what your saying is that there are no guns, bad people, or gangs in Europe? What rock are you living under? This is reality. Right now. In this forum. You are proposing fantasy, which besides movies and books will never exist in this world. Please, get over yourself and open your eyes. You don't hear about people getting killed, raped, and robbed EVERY day because this is a perfect world where criminals can be fixed. |
Many people here seem to enjoy repeating a mantra like "Criminals are BAD! The world is BAD! It will never change!". Why?
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids. |
Ok, so why do they have police in Europe? It must be in case an insect commits a crime like stealing a piece of bread from someone who is picnicing.. Please wake up. You sound like an Obama supporter. Yes, criminals are bad. No, I would not like to see a criminal not punished. I am fully supportive of punishing the criminal, and I believe in not letting a technicality get them off also. So, as I have asked, why do they have police in Europe if it is so great and criminal free? Answer that with a straight answer, and not a beat around the topic one. Bet you can't! |
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08/13/2008 02:13:14 PM · #185 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
So what your saying is that there are no guns, bad people, or gangs in Europe? What rock are you living under? This is reality. Right now. In this forum. You are proposing fantasy, which besides movies and books will never exist in this world. Please, get over yourself and open your eyes. You don't hear about people getting killed, raped, and robbed EVERY day because this is a perfect world where criminals can be fixed. |
Many people here seem to enjoy repeating a mantra like "Criminals are BAD! The world is BAD! It will never change!". Why?
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids. |
Ok, so why do they have police in Europe? It must be in case an insect commits a crime like stealing a piece of bread from someone who is picnicing.. Please wake up. You sound like an Obama supporter. Yes, criminals are bad. No, I would not like to see a criminal not punished. I am fully supportive of punishing the criminal, and I believe in not letting a technicality get them off also. So, as I have asked, why do they have police in Europe if it is so great and criminal free? Answer that with a straight answer, and not a beat around the topic one. Bet you can't! |
I suggest that punishment may not be the best strategy to reduce crime. You accuse me of saying I wanted all criminals to go free.
I say that I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids in Europe. You accuse me of saying there is zero crime in Europe.
I'd appreciate it if you addressed my actual arguments instead of arguing against claims I never made. |
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08/13/2008 02:35:11 PM · #186 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
So what your saying is that there are no guns, bad people, or gangs in Europe? What rock are you living under? This is reality. Right now. In this forum. You are proposing fantasy, which besides movies and books will never exist in this world. Please, get over yourself and open your eyes. You don't hear about people getting killed, raped, and robbed EVERY day because this is a perfect world where criminals can be fixed. |
Many people here seem to enjoy repeating a mantra like "Criminals are BAD! The world is BAD! It will never change!". Why?
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids. |
Ok, so why do they have police in Europe? It must be in case an insect commits a crime like stealing a piece of bread from someone who is picnicing.. Please wake up. You sound like an Obama supporter. Yes, criminals are bad. No, I would not like to see a criminal not punished. I am fully supportive of punishing the criminal, and I believe in not letting a technicality get them off also. So, as I have asked, why do they have police in Europe if it is so great and criminal free? Answer that with a straight answer, and not a beat around the topic one. Bet you can't! |
I suggest that punishment may not be the best strategy to reduce crime. You accuse me of saying I wanted all criminals to go free.
I say that I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids in Europe. You accuse me of saying there is zero crime in Europe.
I'd appreciate it if you addressed my actual arguments instead of arguing against claims I never made. |
I was
Your quotes:
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids.
Your argument means that prison is ineffective as a deterrent. So what is the purpose of prison? Keeping criminals temporarily away and then unleashing them again on the population? This doesn't make any sense. Punishing the criminals? With what goal in mind? You argue that they'll turn to crime again anyways.
I told you of an actual experience I had. There were many similar ones. This is reality. At least here in Europe. I don't have to be afraid of getting a bullet in my head.
The place you live in seems to be very different. Why do you think this is the case?
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08/13/2008 03:53:17 PM · #187 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
I suggest that punishment may not be the best strategy to reduce crime. You accuse me of saying I wanted all criminals to go free.
I say that I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids in Europe. You accuse me of saying there is zero crime in Europe.
I'd appreciate it if you addressed my actual arguments instead of arguing against claims I never made. |
I was |
Arguing against claims I never made? ;-)
You said you were afraid of getting shot at if you talked to kids in the street where you live. I explained I didn't have this fear where I live. What do you think makes our neighborhoods so different?
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Your argument means that prison is ineffective as a deterrent. So what is the purpose of prison? Keeping criminals temporarily away and then unleashing them again on the population? This doesn't make any sense. Punishing the criminals? With what goal in mind? You argue that they'll turn to crime again anyways. |
Here I asked you some questions. I didn't make any policy suggestions. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. |
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08/13/2008 04:05:53 PM · #188 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Ok, so why do they have police in Europe...[etc] |
Wow, what an excellent illustration of a classic straw man argument. I think you'll find that your credibility tanks to less than zero with that kind of nonsense. |
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08/13/2008 04:27:39 PM · #189 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Ok, so why do they have police in Europe...[etc] |
Wow, what an excellent illustration of a classic straw man argument. I think you'll find that your credibility tanks to less than zero with that kind of nonsense. |
That's the best you got? My whole point is he is basically saying there is no crime, and criminals should be running around free. But, he doesn't want them running around his country free, but it's ok to have them in the U.S. Sounds hypocritical to me. Still haven't an answer as to why there is police in Europe if there is no crime. Straw man or not, there is obviously crime if there is police. Therefore, there is crime in Europe, and there is no way this person lives in the real world if he believes there is no crime there. |
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08/13/2008 04:35:46 PM · #190 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
That's the best you got? |
That's all there is, because your response is essentially empty. For example, in an effort to discredit Sam, you found it necessary to wholly invent the following:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
My whole point is he is basically saying there is no crime, and criminals should be running around free. |
He said absolutely nothing like that, and you should stop arguing against a point you yourself conveniently made up.
There's little reason to respond to anything else you've said. |
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08/13/2008 06:14:32 PM · #191 |
Rugman...in the sprit of how the young kids talk today...
..... Louis OWNS you !
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
That's the best you got? |
That's all there is, because your response is essentially empty. For example, in an effort to discredit Sam, you found it necessary to wholly invent the following:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
My whole point is he is basically saying there is no crime, and criminals should be running around free. |
He said absolutely nothing like that, and you should stop arguing against a point you yourself conveniently made up.
There's little reason to respond to anything else you've said. |
Message edited by author 2008-08-13 18:14:42. |
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08/13/2008 06:36:07 PM · #192 |
[quote=Sam94720]
As I wrote in the original post, please just assume the facts outlined in the theoretical scenarios as given. Consider A*) and B*) if you feel they are more realistic.
Well Louis, this should be enough. We are speaking THEORETICALLY. If you would have read this from the beginning, you would know this. Instead of jumping into a discussion by reading just 2 or 3 posts, you might start at the beginning and read from there. This is theoretical, not actual. So most everything discussed is theoretical. Is this good enough? So yea, the straw man thing is a great defense, but being we are speaking theoretical, that pretty much covers everything said here. This whole thread is based on theoretical talk. Do you get it now? Did I drill the Theoretical word in there enough for you to understand? |
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08/13/2008 06:39:18 PM · #193 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Rugman...in the sprit of how the young kids talk today...
..... Louis OWNS you !
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
That's the best you got? |
That's all there is, because your response is essentially empty. For example, in an effort to discredit Sam, you found it necessary to wholly invent the following:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
My whole point is he is basically saying there is no crime, and criminals should be running around free. |
He said absolutely nothing like that, and you should stop arguing against a point you yourself conveniently made up.
There's little reason to respond to anything else you've said. |
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That's fine if Louis owns me. I hope he pays better than my current job, though. |
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08/13/2008 06:48:04 PM · #194 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Really? Try that in the neighborhood where I grew up. First off, if they didn't know you, they would probably beat you into a coma, or to death. Second, if you really had the sack to tell them something, no one would ever find your dead, lifeless body with a bullet in your head. That may work in some neighborhood around where you live or work, but it's highly unlikely to happen in the non-beaver neighborhoods throughout a lot of this country. These kids kill cops, why would they possibly listen to you explain what a sign is for and that it is wrong? Get out of the fantasy world your in and open up your eyes. Obviously, you have been shielded from reality for a really long time, as in the movie "The Truman Show".
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You have to understand something. This guy lives on Mr Roger's Neighboorhood. He doesn't understand how the real world works.
In my home town apartments, they would have just laughed their butt off and made fun of him. |
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08/13/2008 06:51:00 PM · #195 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
The safest strategy would be to keep everyone locked up forever. And then there may be people who have never committed a crime before, but who are more likely to rape that girl than some former prisoner. So we should lock those up, too, just to be on the safe side.
It is obvious that locking up every potential rapist forver is not feasible. So we have to make an assessment which ones to let out and which ones to keep locked away. The point I'm making is that once we decide to release someone it would be better to let them spend their last months at a facility like the Norwegian one instead of a regular prison. |
Why let ANY rapist off? IF they are convicted using DNA evidence...let em hang. |
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08/13/2008 06:55:52 PM · #196 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
This is reality. At least here in Europe. I don't have to be afraid of getting a bullet in my head.
The place you live in seems to be very different. Why do you think this is the case? |
[/quote]
Maybe not a bullet in the head...just a knife in the back when you are waiting for a cab. Right?
Come on...violence is everywhere. Maybe if we play patty-cakes with those fellas that stabbed those two boys to death in the UK while they were waiting on a cab..they will be 'all better'. |
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08/13/2008 06:57:34 PM · #197 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Many people here seem to enjoy repeating a mantra like "Criminals are BAD! The world is BAD! It will never change!". Why?
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids. |
We don't ENJOY this. We realize that violence has and will always be a part of this world. Whether we like it or not. |
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08/13/2008 06:58:59 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
I'd appreciate it if you addressed my actual arguments instead of arguing against claims I never made. |
Why should he pay you that respect? You never answered any of my past questions or comments. It seems that you only like to argue with people you can beat. |
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08/13/2008 07:01:36 PM · #199 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Well Louis, this should be enough. We are speaking THEORETICALLY. If you would have read this from the beginning, you would know this. Instead of jumping into a discussion by reading just 2 or 3 posts, you might start at the beginning and read from there. This is theoretical, not actual. So most everything discussed is theoretical. Is this good enough? So yea, the straw man thing is a great defense, but being we are speaking theoretical, that pretty much covers everything said here. This whole thread is based on theoretical talk. Do you get it now? Did I drill the Theoretical word in there enough for you to understand? |
[user]Louis[/user] has been around here longer than you have, he followed the whole discussion and he's well aware of the different opinions voiced. Could we come back to the actual topic instead of attacking people personally? This thread has been very civilized so far.
I'd like to come back to my questions:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Your argument means that prison is ineffective as a deterrent. So what is the purpose of prison? Keeping criminals temporarily away and then unleashing them again on the population? This doesn't make any sense. Punishing the criminals? With what goal in mind? You argue that they'll turn to crime again anyways. |
Here I asked you some questions. I didn't make any policy suggestions. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. |
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08/13/2008 07:05:42 PM · #200 |
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Many people here seem to enjoy repeating a mantra like "Criminals are BAD! The world is BAD! It will never change!". Why?
And yes, in Europe I'm not afraid of getting shot at if I talk to a bunch of kids. |
We don't ENJOY this. We realize that violence has and will always be a part of this world. Whether we like it or not. |
Do you like to see yourself on the good side of a battle between good and evil? Does this give you a feeling of superiority? Serious questions.
Originally posted by egamble:
You never answered any of my past questions or comments. It seems that you only like to argue with people you can beat. |
Go ahead. Ask your questions. (And by the way: This is not a fight or a competition. I again get the impression that you like to see the world in terms of friends and enemies.)
Message edited by author 2008-08-13 19:06:16. |
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