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07/26/2008 04:27:56 PM · #1
So,

I guess I should start by saying that I haven't been around in the forums for a very long time. There was a reason why I left, and those reasons seem to be showing themselves more and more around here.

Now im not saying this place is bad, or evil. Im not trying to say anything that will draw "if you don't like it you don't have to participate" thoughts or comments. Overall I would attripute alot of who I am today to this site, I start here when I was 16. I have seen fads come and go, along with the names attached to it.

In short, I left because of the evolving mindset of most that participate here. I found this on a blog today, and feel like it says all that needs to be said. Sorry (not really) for the strong language that is involved, but this is suppose to be an art community and this kind of language needs to be used more among artist imho.

so here it is

You find this comment between other interesting comments here:

//edwardwinkleman.blogspot.com/2008/07/things-still-being-only-whispered.html

"I am an artist and I am tired of spectacle.

I am fed up with 2 million plus dollars sculpture 'made' (by assistants, engineers, young artists) by persons with ex-modeling careers.

I am vaguely amused but oh so bored with pretty-boy nightingales with wide-open end-eyes and all that homosexual fucking into artstardom.

I am an artist with an MA and I am fed up of MAs and MFAs. I am bloody hell tired of meeting artists who have summarized their so-called statements to sound like cultural theorists.

I am absolutely horrified with artists with full time jobs who like secretaries know the language of how to write a good proposal that a critic-jury will approve.

I am most fed up with the utilitarian mindset that plagues us even deeper today it seems than ever.

I am tired of curators and their fingering masturbatory hand in all these...oh how they finger and finger the thing so that it may speak --and only speak-- precisely the distortions eminent in their own fastidious rhetoric.

I am no anti-intellectual but oh, how weary am I of artists who, listening incestous to curators rush about pretending art was some matter for sociology and the artist therefore, the sociologist-cultural-theorist.

I make art one may called visual but I know too visual art is and will never be near the power of poetry, the art of music nor even that of the novel. I know visual art is an industry brewed from a mesh of moneyed conceit being peddled by anxious-for-fame conceits.

Having said all these, I hereby DECLARE WAR ON ART.

I ask artists to say no to empty spectacle and sheer materialism;
I urge a move towards the romantic;
I urge a REFUSAL of our life as it is: GIVE UP your banal worries, your high-end rents apartments, your shallow living and expenses!
BE BOLD and have the courage to live by the spirit of art and ideas!

Make art, make it, make it towards great, meet with like-minds, stay up all night with madness and with the fever, drink wine, read voraciously, live simple!

LIVE AS ONE WITH THE BOLDNESS AND COURAGE TO BE A HUMAN BEING "
07/26/2008 04:35:15 PM · #2
Originally posted by downtherabbithole:

I make art one may called visual but I know too visual art is and will never be near the power of poetry, the art of music nor even that of the novel


I disagree. A good photograph can move me as much as any poem, song, novel or movie.

the rest..seems a bit...gypsyish. You don't have to live in poverty and squalor to produce art... Also...wouldn't be 'utilitarian' (think the OP didn't use this word in ther right context..but I will use it how they did..i could be wrong) if we all turned from being Media and corporate zombies and living the life they sale..to being gypsy zombies...living the life this guy espouses?

Furthermore, art..true art is a reflection of reality. It can be used to convey and portray many aspects of this mostly dreary thing we call life. Maybe those of us that view photography as 'something more' can still see the magic that so many people don't. We may not be sociologists, but it is our efforts that allow the human spirit to be captured, if only for a brief moment, for all eternity.

A smile, a sob, an angry gesture. Frozen in a magestic state of timelessness. In my photo's I try to capture those moments in my life and other's lives that capture their essence so that they will never be forgotten.

You can call me whatever you like. I call myself the keeper of memories, the creator of happiness or deep thought. You can live your life as you like....but I prefer to keep making magic my own way...

Message edited by author 2008-07-26 16:49:10.
07/26/2008 04:43:59 PM · #3
"Never take yourself too seriously, lest others think you unable to laugh along with them"

- me ®
07/26/2008 04:47:13 PM · #4
Originally posted by david_c:

"Never take yourself too seriously, lest others think you unable to laugh along with them"

- me ®

Never quote yourself.
-me

OH DAMN!! :D

I like your quote.
07/26/2008 04:48:29 PM · #5
sigh, lets try this again. Like the previous post said, I didn't writ it I just agree with it. This is my words on the topic now, written about myself.

(this is from my blog)
find it here

After looking past my disgust for the art wold, and the bane emptiness that i see in it I have really done some self examining.

I really took a long hard look at why I'm an artist, and it has taken me to some places within myself that I have since started to work on. I'm trying to purge myself of all the create for attetion, fame, or fourtune that I let myself fall into. I am working myself back to a place this is both romantic and honest.

I need to create because it's my only way to make sense of the world around me, not to gain the affection of others. The ever fleeing feeling of importance that comes along with a great image has really become the focus of my creation, and i'm working on that.

I think artist need to be more true to themselves then any other people, and without complete honesty the artist's work becomes lesser. Like your favort local band signing to a label and changing their sound, or that kid in middle school that hated cheerleaders until one liked him.

Artist who are untrue lose respect in themselves, and in their work. Our generation simply can't afford that to happen...

*edit to add hyperlink and fix typo

Message edited by author 2008-07-26 16:50:33.
07/26/2008 05:12:00 PM · #6
Originally posted by egamble:

Originally posted by downtherabbithole:

I make art one may called visual but I know too visual art is and will never be near the power of poetry, the art of music nor even that of the novel


I disagree. A good photograph can move me as much as any poem, song, novel or movie.

the rest..seems a bit...gypsyish. You don't have to live in poverty and squalor to produce art... Also...wouldn't be 'utilitarian' (think the OP didn't use this word in ther right context..but I will use it how they did..i could be wrong) if we all turned from being Media and corporate zombies and living the life they sale..to being gypsy zombies...living the life this guy espouses?

Furthermore, art..true art is a reflection of reality. It can be used to convey and portray many aspects of this mostly dreary thing we call life. Maybe those of us that view photography as 'something more' can still see the magic that so many people don't. We may not be sociologists, but it is our efforts that allow the human spirit to be captured, if only for a brief moment, for all eternity.

A smile, a sob, an angry gesture. Frozen in a magestic state of timelessness. In my photo's I try to capture those moments in my life and other's lives that capture their essence so that they will never be forgotten.

You can call me whatever you like. I call myself the keeper of memories, the creator of happiness or deep thought. You can live your life as you like....but I prefer to keep making magic my own way...


I would have to agree with you on that point. I was thinking about taking that line out, but didn't want to edit someone elses writing. I would agree with everything you said about it.

The point I felt it made as a whole wasn't about what medium was greater then another. I kinda re wrote my exact thoughts later on (and posted them on here as well) I try not to get cought up in the whole what medium is the best conversation. I went to art school long enough that I am just tired of thinking about it. I just do what I do, because it's all I can do to make sense of the world around me.

or at least the is the goal
07/26/2008 05:13:22 PM · #7
Originally posted by downtherabbithole:

sigh, lets try this again. Like the previous post said, I didn't writ it I just agree with it.

I also agree with a good majority of it. I graduated from an art school in 2000 and it truly is sad how so many artists do tend to feed a line of bull just because they think that's what people want to hear. Also, I have a friend who just recently received his MA. The whole time he was in school he bragged and went on and on and now that he's done, he realized that he's not any better of an artist now than he was then, but he's a lot more in debt.
edit for spelling

Message edited by author 2008-07-26 17:15:23.
07/26/2008 05:23:01 PM · #8
..."I hereby DECLARE WAR ON ART."

Maybe you should rephrase this. The blog you mentioned discusses the New York high end art market. You live in Ohio, why are you giving a crap about what goes on in New York unless you want to make it there. And if you want to make it there, you have to follow the rules of the moment.

I enjoyed this sentiment from the very blog you mentioned:

"In fact, all this hand-wringing about the possible decline of the 'high art market' leaves me nonplussed, because the 'high art market' has never been even remotely a part of my artistic life. I find it hard to imagine how a person could be a serious artist and spend time fretting about these things. If you weren't signing on for a career of living on nothing, what planet were you thinking of moving to?"

You would do yourself a mighty big favor by realizing New York is only a little part of the entire Art World. You are young, you are supposed to be romantic. But fear not...all of Art is not selling out to corporate pigs, uptown hipsters, or the almighty dollar in general. Many of us still live in the real world and make deeply honest work. You're just looking in the wrong places.
07/26/2008 05:33:48 PM · #9
Originally posted by RKT:

..."I hereby DECLARE WAR ON ART."

Maybe you should rephrase this. The blog you mentioned discusses the New York high end art market. You live in Ohio, why are you giving a crap about what goes on in New York unless you want to make it there. And if you want to make it there, you have to follow the rules of the moment.

I enjoyed this sentiment from the very blog you mentioned:

"In fact, all this hand-wringing about the possible decline of the 'high art market' leaves me nonplussed, because the 'high art market' has never been even remotely a part of my artistic life. I find it hard to imagine how a person could be a serious artist and spend time fretting about these things. If you weren't signing on for a career of living on nothing, what planet were you thinking of moving to?"

You would do yourself a mighty big favor by realizing New York is only a little part of the entire Art World. You are young, you are supposed to be romantic. But fear not...all of Art is not selling out to corporate pigs, uptown hipsters, or the almighty dollar in general. Many of us still live in the real world and make deeply honest work. You're just looking in the wrong places.


I did not write that blog or that comment on the blog. My ceniments can be found on my own blog here

I have posted my take on this both on my blog and here (copy and paste) I did not want to edit the person who wrote the original comment. I in no way shape or form have personally declared war on art. That seems a little up surd to me. I just felt like there was an underlying message here that all could benefit from.

07/26/2008 05:37:31 PM · #10
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', '/') + 1) . ' downtherabbithole

I notice that you are bi..
so settle the discussion.

Canon or Nikon?

:D
07/26/2008 05:40:52 PM · #11
Originally posted by RKT:

And if you want to make it there, you have to follow the rules of the moment.


I think that's part of what the OP was trying to point out, why should artists have to follow rules?
07/26/2008 05:42:25 PM · #12
I think you are either an artist or a photographer.
I don't want to be lumped in with those pastel painting freaks. :)

07/26/2008 05:47:57 PM · #13
Originally posted by Cam:

I think you are either an artist or a photographer.
I don't want to be lumped in with those pastel painting freaks. :)

We're not all freaks and I think both painters and photographers have to go through somewhat of a similar creative process. Sure it's not the same medium, but they both have to have talent and creativity or they would be doing something else.
07/26/2008 05:56:49 PM · #14
Originally posted by downtherabbithole:

Originally posted by RKT:

..."I hereby DECLARE WAR ON ART."

Maybe you should rephrase this. The blog you mentioned discusses the New York high end art market. You live in Ohio, why are you giving a crap about what goes on in New York unless you want to make it there. And if you want to make it there, you have to follow the rules of the moment.

I enjoyed this sentiment from the very blog you mentioned:

"In fact, all this hand-wringing about the possible decline of the 'high art market' leaves me nonplussed, because the 'high art market' has never been even remotely a part of my artistic life. I find it hard to imagine how a person could be a serious artist and spend time fretting about these things. If you weren't signing on for a career of living on nothing, what planet were you thinking of moving to?"

You would do yourself a mighty big favor by realizing New York is only a little part of the entire Art World. You are young, you are supposed to be romantic. But fear not...all of Art is not selling out to corporate pigs, uptown hipsters, or the almighty dollar in general. Many of us still live in the real world and make deeply honest work. You're just looking in the wrong places.


I did not write that blog or that comment on the blog. My ceniments can be found on my own blog here

I have posted my take on this both on my blog and here (copy and paste) I did not want to edit the person who wrote the original comment. I in no way shape or form have personally declared war on art. That seems a little up surd to me. I just felt like there was an underlying message here that all could benefit from.


I realize you didn't write that blog...my mistake for thinking you actually wrote "I hereby DECLARE WAR ON ART.". Maybe go back to that original post and put all quoted words in italics. Maybe you haven't officially declared war, but you do sound pretty pissed and exasperated.

From you:

"After looking past my disgust for the art wold, and the bane emptiness that i see in it I have really done some self examining."

I read your blog entry...you are calling for truth and honesty...a noble sentiment, a worthy one. But I still keep to my original advice, quite giving a crap about what others thinks...and don't get too deep on yourself. All that really matters is that you enjoy what you are doing. If you don't...stop doing it.
07/26/2008 06:00:17 PM · #15
Originally posted by icu1965:

Originally posted by RKT:

And if you want to make it there, you have to follow the rules of the moment.


I think that's part of what the OP was trying to point out, why should artists have to follow rules?


The original poster was referring to a blog written about the New York art scene. Rules are part of life. If you want to make it in New York you gotta follow them. Why shouldn't "artists" have to follow any rules? Are they above the law or the ways of the world?
07/26/2008 06:04:22 PM · #16
When even posthumous ribbons start going to stock shots, I'd say that dpc is hardly in any danger of becoming a bastion of institutionalized art. So I'm not sure what relevance the essay has to this site, but overall it reads like a mindless rant by someone who cares far too much about what other people think.
07/26/2008 06:04:34 PM · #17
Originally posted by RKT:

Originally posted by icu1965:

Originally posted by RKT:

And if you want to make it there, you have to follow the rules of the moment.


I think that's part of what the OP was trying to point out, why should artists have to follow rules?


The original poster was referring to a blog written about the New York art scene. Rules are part of life. If you want to make it in New York you gotta follow them. Why shouldn't "artists" have to follow any rules? Are they above the law or the ways of the world?

I read what the OP was referring to.
Just because it happens in NY doesn't mean it doesn't happen anywhere else.
I like how you answered my question with a question. Artists aren't above the law, I was referring to what you said about following the rules of the moment. I don't think artists should change their style everytime the "rules of the moment" change just so that they can make money and be famous.
07/26/2008 06:30:40 PM · #18
Originally posted by icu1965:

Originally posted by RKT:

And if you want to make it there, you have to follow the rules of the moment.



I like how you answered my question with a question. Artists aren't above the law, I was referring to what you said about following the rules of the moment. I don't think artists should change their style everytime the "rules of the moment" change just so that they can make money and be famous.


I really don't care what other "artists" do to make money, that's their prerogative. Thumbs up to them. To get in the game you gotta bring game...that's just the way it works. That's the reality of it.

...and what ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' violinist123 said:

"So I'm not sure what relevance the essay has to this site, but overall it reads like a mindless rant by someone who cares far too much about what other people think."

To this I say Hear Hear!...and my head is starting to hurt.
07/26/2008 06:46:48 PM · #19
Originally posted by violinist123:

...but overall it reads like a mindless rant by someone who cares far too much about what other people think.

Not to mention some poorly manufactured artifical angst. "Art" is not a job unless someone is willing to pay you for it.

Welcome back, RG.
07/26/2008 06:47:25 PM · #20
Shut up and shoot.
07/26/2008 06:50:46 PM · #21
Graffiti in SOHO...."Real Artist don't know they're artists."
07/26/2008 07:36:19 PM · #22
if you are good at what you do (in art ;) :
1:live to create art
2:die
3:become famous posthumously ... of course it really doesn't matter

if you are soso (or misunderstood ;)..
1:learn to market yourself
2:live to survive, with art as an bonus
3:die
07/26/2008 07:52:55 PM · #23
Originally posted by downtherabbithole:


I am absolutely horrified with artists with full time jobs who like secretaries know the language of how to write a good proposal that a critic-jury will approve.


Wow! This is so me. I think I'll start being horrified by who I am. My business writing skills do kick-a$$ though.
07/26/2008 07:53:19 PM · #24
Originally posted by downtherabbithole:

I need to create because it's my only way to make sense of the world around me, not to gain the affection of others.


That's fine, good for you.

But the rest of your rant directed towards others is misdirected. Just because you define art and your work in a certain way does not invalidate others work. Other artists can do whatever they wish, they can pander to the markets, they can sell out. It doesn't matter and shouldn't affect you in the least. You do your thing and let them do theirs. I don't understand why you feel the need to validate yourself by demeaning others.
07/26/2008 08:32:25 PM · #25
Originally posted by downtherabbithole:

sigh, lets try this again. Like the previous post said, I didn't writ it I just agree with it. This is my words on the topic now, written about myself.

(this is from my blog)
find it here

After looking past my disgust for the art wold, and the bane emptiness that i see in it I have really done some self examining.

I really took a long hard look at why I'm an artist, and it has taken me to some places within myself that I have since started to work on. I'm trying to purge myself of all the create for attetion, fame, or fourtune that I let myself fall into. I am working myself back to a place this is both romantic and honest.

I need to create because it's my only way to make sense of the world around me, not to gain the affection of others. The ever fleeing feeling of importance that comes along with a great image has really become the focus of my creation, and i'm working on that.

I think artist need to be more true to themselves then any other people, and without complete honesty the artist's work becomes lesser. Like your favort local band signing to a label and changing their sound, or that kid in middle school that hated cheerleaders until one liked him.

Artist who are untrue lose respect in themselves, and in their work. Our generation simply can't afford that to happen...

*edit to add hyperlink and fix typo


Ok...so your saying to create for yourself. Well.. that's what most of us do. But art is not fun if you don't have anybody to share it with, and it's also not fun if the people you are sharing it with don't like it.

"your sitting in a room with your art, after you have created a masterpeice!! Woohoo!! Look at what I have created!! oh wait.. there's nobody to look =( "

A masterpeice is not a masterpeice without others approval.
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