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07/16/2008 01:43:07 PM · #126 |
ok. people are paranoid. people care about people taking pictures of their kids.
This should not be a thread by photographers to indict the general public for attacking photographers. This is much simpler.
Heres a rule: If a person is taking pictures of his or her kids, whatever color, at the playground, leave them alone about it.
I don't care how much of a photographers' rights person you are, if I was at the park with my kids and there was only one other person there, alone, with a camera, and they were taking pictures of my kids, I would get protective.
So lets not turn this into a homer of a thread, with legal rights mumbo jumbo bouncing around and how the photographer is innocent always... ie papparazzi-
lets just say don't stupidly report people for taking pictures of their kids, unless the pictures are sexually suggestive of course.
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07/16/2008 04:15:08 PM · #127 |
Unless both parties use common sense, it doesn't work as expected.
Respect, respect the rights of the others. Ask the mother that objected as to when it is okay to shoot your own kids. Like tell her kids to wait a moment, so they won't accidently get in the scene.
If they don't reason, then walk away. Learn to smile more.
Maybe wear a clown mask next time :-)
I once had a guard at a new outdoor-street style mall tell me I couldn't take photos of my brother and his wife visiting from Tulsa. This was in from of some nice fountains and flowers. Sometimes long lenses scare them.
During Easter, in a hotel lobby I was shooting a giant inflatable rabbit with a basket and two cute barefoot girls walked in front, in their nice outfits and started posing. I talked to their parents and got a business card from them. I better send them their pics soon or they may think I was not serious.
These crazy photographers, I once saw a mob surround a model with cameras, relentlessly shoot her, in Calgary. :-) *laugh*
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07/16/2008 04:43:04 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by justamistere:
Maybe wear a clown mask next time :-)
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Now that shouts pervert to me! LOL, but seriously, remember John Wayne Gacey? |
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07/16/2008 04:53:45 PM · #129 |
I regularly take photos of my grandchildren in parks, playgrounds etc. I have never been accosted by an irate parent, why? My daughter is always there at the same time, I chat to her and other parents while all the kids play, I take photos of the grandchildren as they play and sometimes other kids get in the photos as well, but no-one complains.
If you are a parent and you are in a park or playground with your kids, just ask the supervisor if it is okay to take photos there. Chat to other parents before whipping your zoom lens out!! Ask if they want any photos of their kids while you take shots of your kids.
The world is still the same as it was years ago, it is just people are too insular now, they can't talk to each other. Open mouth and talk before clicking shutter. Laugh and joke with people, you will surprised how they react. Act like a 'perv', get labelled as a 'perv'. :) |
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07/16/2008 04:55:00 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Act like a 'perv', get labelled as a 'perv'. :) |
Just curious, exactly how does a pervert act? |
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07/16/2008 04:55:02 PM · #131 |
| Picking up on something from your post and the orginal article, do all playgrounds in the UK have "supervisors"? |
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07/16/2008 04:57:36 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Picking up on something from your post and the orginal article, do all playgrounds in the UK have "supervisors"? |
Not all, but quite a few have a park supervisor employed by the local council, or someone responsible for the park or playground maintenance, they are employed to make sure no-one breaks by-laws etc. |
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07/16/2008 04:59:05 PM · #133 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Act like a 'perv', get labelled as a 'perv'. :) |
Just curious, exactly how does a pervert act? |
Getting a bit picky now! DPC is in a downward spiral!
The OP stated the newspaper report, read it?? |
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07/16/2008 05:02:14 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Act like a 'perv', get labelled as a 'perv'. :) |
Just curious, exactly how does a pervert act? |
Getting a bit picky now! DPC is in a downward spiral!
The OP stated the newspaper report, read it?? |
Nope. I want to know how a pervert acts so if one approaches me, I'll know.
And for the record, yes, I did read the article. If that is the definition of a pervert, I guess I am one because I take pictures of my kids all the time.
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07/16/2008 05:03:35 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by icu1965:
Originally posted by justamistere:
Maybe wear a clown mask next time :-)
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Now that shouts pervert to me! LOL, but seriously, remember John Wayne Gacey? |
Pogo the Clown. |
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07/16/2008 05:06:34 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Act like a 'perv', get labelled as a 'perv'. :) |
Just curious, exactly how does a pervert act? |
Getting a bit picky now! DPC is in a downward spiral!
The OP stated the newspaper report, read it?? |
Nope. I want to know how a pervert acts so if one approaches me, I'll know.
And for the record, yes, I did read the article. If that is the definition of a pervert, I guess I am one because I take pictures of my kids all the time. |
I am glad you read it because it states why the father was suspected of being a pervert, But in case you missed the point or have a problem with gender, it was a lone male taking photos of kids in a playground/park. Thank goodness I only have three weeks membership left cos DPC is really getting weird! |
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07/16/2008 05:06:42 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by icu1965:
Originally posted by justamistere:
Maybe wear a clown mask next time :-)
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Now that shouts pervert to me! LOL, but seriously, remember John Wayne Gacey? |
Pogo the Clown. |
Pee Wee Herman?
(This is word association time, isn't it?) |
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07/16/2008 05:11:37 PM · #138 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by icu1965:
Originally posted by justamistere:
Maybe wear a clown mask next time :-)
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Now that shouts pervert to me! LOL, but seriously, remember John Wayne Gacey? |
Pogo the Clown. |
You remember! Pogo/Killer clown
He's proof that you can't trust everyone, and looks can be deceiving!! |
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07/16/2008 05:12:16 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
I am glad you read it because it states why the father was suspected of being a pervert, But in case you missed the point or have a problem with gender, it was a lone male taking photos of kids in a playground/park. Thank goodness I only have three weeks membership left cos DPC is really getting weird! |
The article also states that it was only one woman who caused the problem. It was the father/photographer who sought out the police. The police supported the photographer. Then he sought out the press...I can surmise since he's prominently pictured posing with family and camera for the press image and well quoted for his side of the story. One woman's hysterical ranting in which she used the word "pervert" elevated to an international press event...? |
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07/16/2008 05:27:47 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
I am glad you read it because it states why the father was suspected of being a pervert, But in case you missed the point or have a problem with gender, it was a lone male taking photos of kids in a playground/park. Thank goodness I only have three weeks membership left cos DPC is really getting weird! |
The article also states that it was only one woman who caused the problem. It was the father/photographer who sought out the police. The police supported the photographer. Then he sought out the press...I can surmise since he's prominently pictured posing with family and camera for the press image and well quoted for his side of the story. One woman's hysterical ranting in which she used the word "pervert" elevated to an international press event...? |
Quite right in your surmising, but the original point was that he was a lone male photographing kids. One woman thought he was a pervert, and it was ony with police intervention that the situation was brought under control. The world press just love a sensational story and are will quite happy to elevate it.
But the basic premise is the same, a lone male with camera where kids are will provoke a reaction!
Message edited by author 2008-07-16 17:28:34. |
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07/16/2008 05:42:14 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
Quite right in your surmising, but the original point was that he was a lone male photographing kids. One woman thought he was a pervert, and it was ony with police intervention that the situation was brought under control. The world press just love a sensational story and are will quite happy to elevate it.
But the basic premise is the same, a lone male with camera where kids are will provoke a reaction! |
I'm sorry, but it clearly states in the article that he was on a "family day out" ...with wife and kids. Not alone.
One woman took exception to his refusal to stop taking photos because her children were also on the slide. In the subsequent argument, she called him the "P" word.
The father/photographer left the argument to seek out two officers...to prove his point or assert his rights or, perhaps to teach that vocal woman a lesson?
No lone man with camera here. Doesn't seem to prove the premise so often stated in this thread that any guy with a camera in public is going to have his peaceable picture taking interrupted by harassment. |
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07/16/2008 05:47:53 PM · #142 |
| Throw out the facts then, who cares, this is more important, this is about every god fearing and godless man's right to photograph stuff whatever that stuff may be without feeling like a criminal! |
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07/16/2008 05:54:10 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Throw out the facts then, who cares, this is more important, this is about every god fearing and godless man's right to photograph stuff whatever that stuff may be without feeling like a criminal! |
You can feel however you want to feel. There are some things and some circumstances where photography is illegal. Taking pictures would then be criminal. The picture taker would be a criminal. You don't have to feel like one though. |
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07/16/2008 06:44:21 PM · #144 |
The frustration with this whole scenario is the accepting the world does not give a damn about idealists. I agree, a photographer should be a able to take pictures of mostly anything but unfortunately, not everyone is in agreement. That is where the problem is centered. The photographer bill of rights validates this nicely to the photographer but otherwise, it is nothing more than an ideal that holds little water when you are out there in the field.
People will act irrationally when they feel their values are at risk. Regardless of whether there are restraints outlined in law or not, the impulsive and rash steps taken to uphold those values will supersede any societal protocols. This is human nature.
It is also human nature to "not challenge" the person who is protecting their values as this will more often than not escalate the problem rather than diffuse it. Confrontations are ugly and most often misconstrued by others. It is "easier" to side with the party feeling threatened. We all have at one time or another dug in our heels to protect our value system. This is no different. Whether the values being protected are right or wrong is irrelevant as the person digging in for their position is immovable at that moment. In their mind they are right and you are wrong.
Challenge those sacred values and you challenge the core of their moral fiber. They will fight you to the most ridiculous extent with little regard for the negative impact it may have on others.
Have I described a parent? Given the right circumstance, I think I nailed it.
Parents will jump in front of a train to protect their kids. Why? It is hardwired in them. I know I would do so in half a heartbeat. I suspect many of us parents are the same.
Expecting a parent to weigh their values when faced with something they may "perceive" to be "a threat" is naive. I'm not condoning the behavior by no means, but as a parent, I do understand it.
As a parent who is a photographer, I am especially sensitive as I know I may be driven by a parental wiring to protect my children from something which even slightly smells of a threat. Why? The cost is too great if I'm wrong. I'd rather face a lawsuit than risk my child's safety any day.
As a schmuck who just wants to take pictures, it is a scenario that is cumbersome to deal with but has to be recognized all the same.
The question we should ask is: Does society place greater value upon the instincts of a parent minding their children or the rights of a photographer enjoying their hobby? The answer, in my mind, is evident. Is it right? To what extent are we, as photographers, willing to challenge that "institution" to uphold our ideals?
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07/16/2008 06:55:32 PM · #145 |
| I would just like to say at this time that while I cannot agree entirely with Ivo I think he has done a very good job to explain his thought process on this subject clearly. |
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07/16/2008 07:03:35 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
I'd rather face a lawsuit than risk my child's safety any day.
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Unfortunately, it wouldn't just be your personal future at risk in a lawsuit. You'd be left to explain to your kids that the family is living in a refrigerator box under a freeway because Daddy over-reacted. |
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07/16/2008 07:45:58 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Ivo:
I'd rather face a lawsuit than risk my child's safety any day.
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Unfortunately, it wouldn't just be your personal future at risk in a lawsuit. You'd be left to explain to your kids that the family is living in a refrigerator box under a freeway because Daddy over-reacted. |
It is obvious where your values are. I hope your children would feel as secure in them as you do. Your paradigm is admirable .... to some I'm certain. |
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07/16/2008 08:10:19 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Ivo:
I'd rather face a lawsuit than risk my child's safety any day.
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Unfortunately, it wouldn't just be your personal future at risk in a lawsuit. You'd be left to explain to your kids that the family is living in a refrigerator box under a freeway because Daddy over-reacted. |
It is obvious where your values are. I hope your children would feel as secure in them as you do. Your paradigm is admirable .... to some I'm certain. |
I agree with Spaz and I don't see it as any "paradigm" - simply common sense. I'm not even sure how to interpret this statement:
Originally posted by Ivo:
As a parent who is a photographer, I am especially sensitive as I know I may be driven by a parental wiring to protect my children from something which even slightly smells of a threat. |
What does that mean in real terms? If I point a camera at your kid in the park, your parental wiring kicks in and you proceed to kick my ass? If that's what you mean, then Spaz is absolutely correct about your future under the freeway. |
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07/16/2008 09:48:39 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Ivo:
I'd rather face a lawsuit than risk my child's safety any day.
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Unfortunately, it wouldn't just be your personal future at risk in a lawsuit. You'd be left to explain to your kids that the family is living in a refrigerator box under a freeway because Daddy over-reacted. |
It is obvious where your values are. I hope your children would feel as secure in them as you do. Your paradigm is admirable .... to some I'm certain. |
Yeah, unlike you, I think about my ability to provide for my children's future, not flipping out and losing everything the family owns in a lawsuit and get myself sent to prison because I kick the crap out of some guy with a camera at the park in a paranoia fueled rage.
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07/16/2008 10:10:54 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Ivo:
As a parent who is a photographer, I am especially sensitive as I know I may be driven by a parental wiring to protect my children from something which even slightly smells of a threat. |
What does that mean in real terms? If I point a camera at your kid in the park, your parental wiring kicks in and you proceed to kick my ass? If that's what you mean, then Spaz is absolutely correct about your future under the freeway. |
i'm seriously considering getting kicked in the ass by some over-reacting parent, and then with the court compensation money, return with a bigger camera and lens :) (could never afford one with my current savings anyway) |
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