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06/23/2008 06:04:35 PM · #1 |
Sorry to add yet another of these threads to the forums, but I need some advice. I'm going to bid on a job shooting products for a company that will use the images for advertising and their website. There will be about a hundred items and as part of the bid, they ask what I'd charge.
The products are all small and I don't image it would take very long to shoot each one, especially one I get the lights tuned. I can work in my own space, so I'm assuming that they'll ship them all to me.
Any suggestions for a figure? I'd appreciate any help!
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06/23/2008 06:11:07 PM · #2 |
Welllll, do they want 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... number of images of each item?
Do they want exclusive rights to the images forever and ever?
Do you have to process anything beyond conversion?
Do they want the originals?
All of this has an impact, I think, on what to charge in a situation like this.
Number of photos $$$$
Exclusive rights $$$$$$$$
No processing beyond conversion $$$
Originals $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Sit down and try to make a list of what you believe they will want and then figure out your hourly rate and how long you think it will take you to do what they are asking. Then, if they are asking for original files that you can never sell again, bump up that price a little more. If you bid a little lower this time to get the job and blow them away, will they use you again in the future and pay more?? All of this needs to be considered, IMO.
Just my opinion... :D |
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06/23/2008 06:25:17 PM · #3 |
The posting is a bit sparse on details. However, I think I can safely assume the following:
-They will want exclusive rights (I could not re-use the shots for stock photos, etc - although I would require that I be able to use them on my website for personal advertising)
-I will have to work with their creative team and do post-processing
-I would imagine 1-2 shots per item
There'd also be a need for props, the cost of which would have to be budgeted into the overall price and paid in advance.
If I figure 30 minutes per item photography time and an additional 15 minutes post-processing time per item, I'm looking at about 75 hours of work. Figure that after working with their team and getting everything just so, it's closer to 90 hours (?)
So would a bid of $4000 seem about right, or too low/high?
Message edited by author 2008-06-23 18:33:57.
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06/23/2008 06:46:30 PM · #4 |
I think that sounds really fair for the parameters you have listed here. The hours sound about right and as long as their creative team isn't a PITA, you should come out really well in the end for the hours of work you put in. Minus taxes on your end, I would say that averages about 36 an hour... maybe less if you have to purchase items with that money as well. Not too bad for a couple weeks' work :)
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06/23/2008 09:11:29 PM · #5 |
$36/hour is weak as a fee for photography or PP. $100 to $125 an hour is more like it, but you can break that down if want into 'creative fee' (the shoot), 'expenses' (props, rentals - with 10% to 20% markup for you time and effort to chase the items down), and perhaps a $60/hour fee for PP/editing. Yeah, $4000 sounds enticing at first, but that 90 hours is more like a month's work - assuming you're a one man band type of company. You spend time each week on bookkeeping, marketing, maintenance (computer, camera, cleaning the floors, etc). So you don't really have 40 hours a week you can bill for, but more like 25 to 30. Add in some time for making the estimate, billing, phone conversations, letters, etc and you'll add in a few more hours.
Now we're down to $1000 for a week's work, or $25/hour. But that's GROSS money - you have overhead (cameras, cimputers, software, education, website, bank account, office furniture, phone, etc) that comes out of that, and then you need to pay yourself and then there's taxes...being self employed you'll pay about 1/3 after expenses. If you run a tight ship from home you might have $400/week in overhead and a LOT more possible if you rent space for the biz. that leaves $600 for you, 1/3 of that will go to taxes so you net $400 for 40 hours...$10/hour.
Now that may be better than what Wendy's pays, but it's only $20,000 a year. Still think that's alot? Try and hire someone to do what you want done for that price and see how it works out for ya.
i don't think it will take 30 minutes to shoot the items, per item, unless you're figuring in the unpack, clean if needed, repack and take to UPS - then yeah, it's gonna take a good bit of time.
Message edited by author 2008-06-23 21:12:59.
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06/24/2008 03:12:55 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
$36/hour is weak as a fee for photography or PP. $100 to $125 an hour is more like it, but you can break that down if want into 'creative fee' (the shoot), 'expenses' (props, rentals - with 10% to 20% markup for you time and effort to chase the items down), and perhaps a $60/hour fee for PP/editing. Yeah, $4000 sounds enticing at first, but that 90 hours is more like a month's work - assuming you're a one man band type of company. You spend time each week on bookkeeping, marketing, maintenance (computer, camera, cleaning the floors, etc). So you don't really have 40 hours a week you can bill for, but more like 25 to 30. Add in some time for making the estimate, billing, phone conversations, letters, etc and you'll add in a few more hours.
Now we're down to $1000 for a week's work, or $25/hour. But that's GROSS money - you have overhead (cameras, cimputers, software, education, website, bank account, office furniture, phone, etc) that comes out of that, and then you need to pay yourself and then there's taxes...being self employed you'll pay about 1/3 after expenses. If you run a tight ship from home you might have $400/week in overhead and a LOT more possible if you rent space for the biz. that leaves $600 for you, 1/3 of that will go to taxes so you net $400 for 40 hours...$10/hour.
Now that may be better than what Wendy's pays, but it's only $20,000 a year. Still think that's alot? Try and hire someone to do what you want done for that price and see how it works out for ya.
i don't think it will take 30 minutes to shoot the items, per item, unless you're figuring in the unpack, clean if needed, repack and take to UPS - then yeah, it's gonna take a good bit of time. |
I wish I could bring you to my client meetings to help explain why my costs, which they think are too high, actually aren't so.
Any time I try to even begin to explain these things, I think I'm coming across as elitist or "better" than them.
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06/24/2008 08:42:44 AM · #7 |
call around about getting a car fixed, your lawn cut, your hair done. What does a plumber or electrician charge in your area? Hell, walmart wants $100/average and how long are you there, 15 minutes maybe? You need confidence in yourself, your product, what you charge and if they pay, great, if not, oh well, move on to those that will.
they guy fixing your car (around here) gets $9-14 an hour, but garages charge up to $75/hour. It's been years since I needed a plumber or electrician but they're well over $90/hour (but they come to you...). Hair salons vary in what they charge and what they do, but $35 for a woman's basic hair cut is what my wife pays and it takes 30-45 minutes.
Your costs are your costs. if you can't cover your costs and pay yourself a living wage then your business won't succeed. Photographers are making it work all over the country so you can too - you may have to re-evaluate what you're giving for what you're charging. You may have to educate your clients. You may have to change your look/presentation/marketing materials to reflect a higher end look and feel.
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06/28/2008 01:21:09 AM · #8 |
Hi there... I'm a total newbie in business and I'm working as a photomanipulator/retoucher for a Canadian Wedding Photographer who payes me 3 american dollars per picture in rows of 100 pictures, so 300 dollars at the end :)
I do everything, corrections and adjustments, skin smoothing, skin tonal adjustments, blemishes, some montage (if the sky is blown) and so on... Well... I would like to know how much money should I charge for this kind of job. I'm fixing and making great nice looking pictures about 400 per month... Any tip? |
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