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06/15/2008 12:49:55 AM · #1
I was thinking that it would be interesting to try a couple times to make the comments visible for all entries during a challenge; of course in this case all commenters would be 'Hidden during voting'. Because of its anonymity I don't think it would make other voters biased by a comment; however, the number of comments could significantly increase, because if one shares an opinion can just simply say so in a word. Also, in some cases it could promote to see a picture from more versatile perspectives.
06/15/2008 12:58:45 AM · #2
All in Favor?

Aye!
06/15/2008 12:59:27 AM · #3
I rather like this idea, except I'd like to still have the comments of others invisible until you commented and voted yourself.
06/15/2008 01:33:53 AM · #4
I don't think comments should be visible, because a commenter might find a flaw that another Voter didn't notice, and it would probably effect the decision of that Voter, or similarly might over emphasize something nice in the picture, and thus drawing undeserved attention to it!

just my 2 cents :)
06/15/2008 01:41:43 AM · #5
I think this would lead to people changing their opinions based on those of others. I like that everyone's completely independent.
06/15/2008 03:52:15 AM · #6
Originally posted by levyj413:

I think this would lead to people changing their opinions based on those of others. I like that everyone's completely independent.


I agree.


06/15/2008 07:50:44 AM · #7
I don't think the OP was suggesting a permanent change, so this would be a very interesting thing to try. It might inspire photographers to go that extra step to look for and avoid/fix things that will get picked over repeatedly which may result in an extrordinary field of photos. It will certainly skew typical scores, but I'm confident the best shots will rise to the top possibly better than normal.

I would add to the rule that commenters may only comment on the photo and may not reveal the score they gave or make predictions about how a photo will rank. Comments violating that rule should be edited, hidden, or deleted by SC asap.
06/15/2008 08:19:16 AM · #8
Originally posted by JMart:


I would add to the rule that commenters may only comment on the photo and may not reveal the score they gave or make predictions about how a photo will rank. Comments violating that rule should be edited, hidden, or deleted by SC asap.


I agree that the scores should remain hidden if something like this was to happen, but I can pretty much guarantee that nobody has time to read ever comment and edit or hide those that violate the rules. That would be a full time job in itself! :-)

As for the original question, I think the biggest advantage to this would be fewer cries of DNMC, with images that do meet, but are outside of the norm.

As for the sheer number of comments... A simple "ditto", or "I agree with the last guy" doesn't really help me out. I would hope that I would still get meaningful comments, even if somebody else said it first.

Message edited by author 2008-06-15 08:19:57.
06/15/2008 09:50:21 AM · #9
Originally posted by levyj413:

I think this would lead to people changing their opinions based on those of others. I like that everyone's completely independent.


I totally agree. A strong 'NO' vote here.
06/15/2008 09:59:34 AM · #10
Originally posted by levyj413:

I think this would lead to people changing their opinions based on those of others. I like that everyone's completely independent.

I think it would be an interesting experiment if voters could learn from the insight of others. I bet most DPCers have rated photos where they know the most brilliant part of a pic will be overlooked by casual viewers. That will still happen regardless of comments, but it might help some of those subtle and OOB photos get a well deserved boost.
06/15/2008 10:32:40 AM · #11
Originally posted by Jaker:



As for the original question, I think the biggest advantage to this would be fewer cries of DNMC, with images that do meet, but are outside of the norm.



... or the opposite, lead to more shoehorning.
06/15/2008 10:37:02 AM · #12
Originally posted by JMart:

I don't think the OP was suggesting a permanent change, so this would be a very interesting thing to try. It might inspire photographers to go that extra step to look for and avoid/fix things that will get picked over repeatedly which may result in an extrordinary field of photos. It will certainly skew typical scores, but I'm confident the best shots will rise to the top possibly better than normal.

I would add to the rule that commenters may only comment on the photo and may not reveal the score they gave or make predictions about how a photo will rank. Comments violating that rule should be edited, hidden, or deleted by SC asap.


Yes, practically this is what I meant. I wasn't suggesting this to be a permanent rule, but to use it with a certain frequency with the explicit purpose to let a voter's opinion be influenced by others. I expect the benefits actually from two sides: one is that JMart has also pointed out that it may help OOB pictures being more widely understood/appreciated than in the regular voting system; the other point is that it might give more clues for learner (at different levels) photographers for self improvement. When there is a challenge with 200+ entries, I am pretty sure, many voters just don't have the time to comment but may take that second to quote a comment and say 'Yap'. (Say, there is an over-processed image getting 5-ish or <5 scores but only a couple comments and only one points out the flaw. In the suggested 'Open voting system' the 'point to improve' could be made more obvious.)

Of course it would not make everybody happy and it could be misused, but overall it could turn out really interesting.

Message edited by author 2008-06-15 10:45:21.
06/15/2008 10:43:18 AM · #13
Originally posted by Jaker:

Originally posted by JMart:


I would add to the rule that commenters may only comment on the photo and may not reveal the score they gave or make predictions about how a photo will rank. Comments violating that rule should be edited, hidden, or deleted by SC asap.


I agree that the scores should remain hidden if something like this was to happen, but I can pretty much guarantee that nobody has time to read ever comment and edit or hide those that violate the rules. That would be a full time job in itself! :-)

As for the original question, I think the biggest advantage to this would be fewer cries of DNMC, with images that do meet, but are outside of the norm.

As for the sheer number of comments... A simple "ditto", or "I agree with the last guy" doesn't really help me out. I would hope that I would still get meaningful comments, even if somebody else said it first.


Just like on this forum site, an entry can be reported by anyone. As such, it would not require a single person screening all the comments all day and night, but any voter who noticed a violation could report it and then an assigned administrator could take care of the rest.
06/15/2008 01:01:31 PM · #14
There is already ample opportunity for doing this ... as soon as the voting closes.

I've thought for a long time that one of the major weaknesses (as a "learning" tool) of the challenge structure is that there is no time allowed for contemplation and analysis of the just-concluded challenges -- for the most part, people become almost completely engrossed in the just-announced new challenge(s), or are busy voting on the current challenges, and it seems there is relatively little discussion of completed challenges, except for the obligatory "why didn't this one do better" thread and people posting their personal favorites in the "Posthumous Ribbons" thread ...

Personally, I'd like to delay announcement of the new topic(s) for a day after rollover, giving us six days instead of seven to shoot and vote, and a day to discuss or just take a break, or vote comment on the still ongoing challenges.
06/20/2008 07:05:32 PM · #15
Originally posted by GeneralE:

There is already ample opportunity for doing this ... as soon as the voting closes.

Personally, I'd like to delay announcement of the new topic(s) for a day after rollover, giving us six days instead of seven to shoot and vote, and a day to discuss or just take a break, or vote comment on the still ongoing challenges.


I like that idea.
I'm still reasonably new to DPC, but have thought about my own lack of reflection on many a challenge.
What about this idea:

For the extra day of reflection you mention, give everyone a new vote, for just one day to choose the 'innovation award' or 'aspiration award' or something like that.
Basically, everyone can look again through the pictures and read the voter comments, and read the authors own notes on the picture. Give everyone just one vote on one picture they like that fits the appropriate criteria. Those who enter the challenges and are clever in their picture subject and who give out good advice on how they thought of the idea, or how they did it, may just get picked by the voters.
At the end of the day, the five pictures with the highest votes can be listed, and the one who gets the most votes can be declared to have an award (not comparable to the current awards, but a recognition of their efforts). This approach may get people to look back at the special award pictures.
I'd be happy to be chosen for such an award, because I haven't got much change of getting a ribbon, lol, but I like to think I have some good ideas, as often reflected in voter comments.
There are some great ideas in most challenges, its a shame they don't get much mention or reflection.

In one way, kind of a similar idea to the posthumous awards, but we all get to choose.

Message edited by author 2008-06-20 19:07:51.
06/20/2008 07:40:24 PM · #16
Originally posted by GeneralE:

... I've thought for a long time that one of the major weaknesses (as a "learning" tool) of the challenge structure is that there is no time allowed for contemplation and analysis of the just-concluded challenges ---

...it seems there is relatively little discussion of completed challenges...

There have been a few attempts at discussion of the just completed challenge...the problem is that it's been said that some people have thin skin in regards to comments rec'd during the challenge (not always obviously). However, the reaction AFTER the challenge is even more severe. The couple of attempts I've seen (threads) denegrated into discussions with remarks such as "Let the winners bask in their moment...", "Don't be rude...", etc...

If it's not a pat on the back after the challenge, forget about it. Unless an image is posted by the photographer asking for feedback, any comments that skirt the edges of flattery are trounced on. Let the gazillion "ribbons" being tossed about in the Posthumous thread cover the desired attaboys.

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' pffree - I like your suggestion. One potential fault is since voting/recognition would be done after the results are in, it could (not saying it would for sure, but could) turn into just a popularity contest.
06/21/2008 09:08:09 AM · #17
Originally posted by glad2badad:



' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' pffree - I like your suggestion. One potential fault is since voting/recognition would be done after the results are in, it could (not saying it would for sure, but could) turn into just a popularity contest.


Good point, but I do wonder would that be a crime in itself?
How about pick the top 10 members who have made the most comments in the challenge, and let them decide? I would guess that if you comment a lot, then the challenge is of interest to you, so you can be awarded with the chance to elect another award winner.
Probably a bit complex to initiate, but I think would get more people interested to comment and take interest.
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