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06/09/2008 12:56:34 AM · #1 |
| Hey all, I'm gonna be getting a motorcycle pretty soon as my main method of transportation. I'm currently looking at Kawasaki Ninja 250Rs, since I read they're great started bikes and I love the Ninja styling. Anyways, I'm looking at one used with about 37xxx miles on it. My question is is that too much? How much life do most motorcycle engines get before they crap out? Will a bike with 37K miles last me for a long time still? |
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06/09/2008 01:27:39 AM · #2 |
I ride a 2003 BMW F650GS thumper (single piston). Great gas mileage at 70-78mpg. Plus it goes offroad also.
I have 30000 on mine right now, and have not had any problems/rebuild, etc. Not sure on Ninjas. Guess it depends on how well the previous owners took care of and maintained it. The forums on my bike show these guys over 100's thousands of miles....but that is a Beemer. :)
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06/09/2008 02:09:08 AM · #3 |
I ride a Suzuki SV650S (1999- mileage somewhere between 50 and 60K)
37K should not be a problem eniginewise. Obviously, maintenance costs increase with mileage, but around 40K would strike a nice balance between purchase costs and maintenance costs.
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06/09/2008 02:23:30 AM · #4 |
| OK, cool, thanks for the input guys. There's about 3 or 4 other Ninjas I've sent queries to (craigslist), but this is the first guy to respond. Anything else I should maybe know, being a newbie? |
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06/09/2008 03:00:57 AM · #5 |
| i got a ninja 250 a few weeks ago - 2002, and it has 2600 miles on it. since they're ~$3500 new, i hope you're getting a massive discount on one with 37,000 miles on it. |
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06/09/2008 05:54:30 AM · #6 |
The one with 37K is an 1985 1000R, actually :O
I'm a little hesitant to buy that one, due to the age and the other minor repairs it needs. But it's the cheapest, even after I get it and do the repairs. I may have the finances for a better one, though I don't know if I'll have enough for a brand new 250R.
Message edited by author 2008-06-09 05:54:42. |
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06/09/2008 06:36:34 AM · #7 |
Look at the maintenance history. Have the valves been adjusted or has that been postponed. It should be done at around 25000 miles. If you do not know how to do this yourself, it can be quite expensive. At a bike this old I would also suspect the gaskets, bearings of the wheels and steering, need replacement. Oil in the front forks can be wasted, the springs will be very bad and need replacement. Check the inside of the fuel tank for wear and rust. Many rubbers can be cracked, from electrical components to carbs. The carbs are likely to be dirty. Brake hoses are likely to be bad, brake fluids contaminated with water. Front fork gaskets probably dry (oil leaks from the front fork). Battery is likely to be weak.
37k on a 1985 bike is very low mileage. You would think that it is good, but is actually very bad. It takes too much time to explain why, but it has to do with the damage that old oil causes and water getting into the oil because of short runs and condensation.
Last time we bought a bike from the 80's (an NSR125 twostroke racer) it was a complete pile of dung. When we fixed the suspension and the brakes, the carb failed, when that was repaired the cooling failed (the bi-metal element that controls the opening of the cooling fluid circulation failed) and caused several seizures. After a complete engine rebuild the electricity started to fail..... I would stay very far away from a cheap 80's bike. It will cost you two to three times the price you pay for it.
My own bike history = 50cc moped, 600cc Yamaha FZS 3x and now an XTX660 Yamaha. Plus quite some mileage on an R6 that wasn't mine. And of course a lot of test rides like a Honda CB400 four, CB500 twin, Aprilia Mille, Yamaha BT1100, etc, etc. The 125 was my brother's, but I was the one fixing and testriding it. It was such a fun bike, shame it was a repair nightmare.
Message edited by author 2008-06-09 06:40:52.
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06/09/2008 06:59:53 AM · #8 |
Thanks for bringing those important points up... Here's most of an email from the guy, explaining what he did:
well...I already replaced the clutch lever and did the carb work on it so all it really needs now is a windshield (approx. $90 from anywhere you order it from) and a right side mirror (approx. $25-$45 depending on where you go...may be able to find one out at sportwheels cheaper..) I ride the bike daily now and have no probs with performance. The bike has 37,xxx on it but you can't tell by the way it runs. I have replaced the pick-up coils ($148.00) and IC Igniter ($517.00) so I will be reposting this bike for $2,000 since I have done most of the needed repairs. If you care about looks it wouldnt hurt to give it a paint job but that does not affect the speed and performance so I wont be doing that. This is a 170mph+ motorcycle as it is. By carb work I meant the carbs may need to be cleaned as it was stalling out on me. I discovered that the IC Igniter was bad and replaced it. Has not stalled since. I did that over a week ago. I ran it down the hwy at 135 mph for a few mins and it went smooth and straight and no stalls or hesitation.
Uh oh. 170 mph on a starter bike? I might as well bury myself now, but man, it'll be fun as hell :D |
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06/09/2008 08:23:34 AM · #9 |
I agree with Azrifel... go for something newer than the '80's bike. Besides the inevitable problems that come with age, there is a world of difference in reliability between bikes built in the mid-1980s and bikes built in, say, the mid-1990s. A good bike 10 years old or less can be had for a reasonable price.
On many bikes, 37k is nothing... on smaller displacement bikes, 37k might mean some maintenance soon. My personal ride is a 1995 Honda ST1100 that I've owned since 1999. I have 139k on it, it's my daily commuter, and I have no concerns with it's reliability.
For a first bike, I'd suggest something in the 650cc range. Light enough to not be a problem at low speeds, heavy enough to be stable at freeway speeds. Still, a 650cc sport bike can be really dangerous, so do take a rider safety course. |
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06/09/2008 08:40:20 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Anti-Martyr:
Thanks for bringing those important points up... Here's most of an email from the guy, explaining what he did:
well...I already replaced the clutch lever and did the carb work on it so all it really needs now is a windshield (approx. $90 from anywhere you order it from) and a right side mirror (approx. $25-$45 depending on where you go...may be able to find one out at sportwheels cheaper..) I ride the bike daily now and have no probs with performance. The bike has 37,xxx on it but you can't tell by the way it runs. I have replaced the pick-up coils ($148.00) and IC Igniter ($517.00) so I will be reposting this bike for $2,000 since I have done most of the needed repairs. If you care about looks it wouldnt hurt to give it a paint job but that does not affect the speed and performance so I wont be doing that. This is a 170mph+ motorcycle as it is. By carb work I meant the carbs may need to be cleaned as it was stalling out on me. I discovered that the IC Igniter was bad and replaced it. Has not stalled since. I did that over a week ago. I ran it down the hwy at 135 mph for a few mins and it went smooth and straight and no stalls or hesitation.
Uh oh. 170 mph on a starter bike? I might as well bury myself now, but man, it'll be fun as hell :D |
Windshield and right side mirror? Did the bike take a fall? This should be a clear warning sign.
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06/09/2008 09:15:57 AM · #11 |
Couple of things...
If it's your main method of transportation, consider a different style. The bent over riding style of a sport bike will get very tiring, very soon. Also, the reliability of sport bikes aren't up to par as they are designed to pack tons of HP into a small engine. Given the age and mileage of what you are looking at, expect to have to call for a ride every once in a while.
Depending on what you have to spend, a sport-touring bike may be a better fit. Kawasaki has been making the Concours for several years and has historically been very reliable. I had one myself for a while and absolutely loved it. The downside is that it is a 1000cc and somewhat top heavy.
Hmm, I just checked your profile and a Concours may not be the best choice for an 18 year old. Have you considered an older Honda like the GL650 or GL500. They are reliable, built like tanks, and great learner bikes.
But most importantly, sign up for an MSF course before you start riding. They are fun, you may meet some riding buddies, and what you learn could come in handy.
My ride: 2004 BMW K1200GS
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06/09/2008 10:15:24 AM · #12 |
I agree with the crowd.. Sure BMWs (and Harleys)are known for longevity (as long as there has been scheduled maintainance). but japanese bikes aren't (aside from maybe the Goldwing) Cafe racer's are nice but are made to drive fast and probably have been. Buy something from the 90s at least or better yet from the 2000 or newer. There are deals out there.
Message edited by author 2008-06-09 10:19:20.
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06/09/2008 10:27:19 AM · #13 |
Wow, never expected so much advice! Thanks all!
A couple things: Yes, I do still have to do the licensing and safety courses. It'll be done soon though. And you've convinced me to look at newer bikes. I sent out several emails, and I'd guess probably 5/6 were for models that were 1995 or newer, so I'll investigate more thoroughly into those and leave the 1985 alone.
As for the hunched over: My main commute is just to work, which by car is all of 10 minutes, less if I make it through all the lights. I don't think it will be an issue; plus, I'm kind of anal about styling. I want something that's aesthetically pleasing to me, which pretty much limits my choices to crotch rockets. That being said, I'm of course open to other styles of bikes, but I've yet to come across one that I really like that isn't crotch rocket styled.
On the reliability note: I didn't think 250ccs or a 500ccs was really "packing HP into a small engine"... Is that a misconception on my part? It seems like both my parents' bikes have bigger engines than that... Now, I could totally see that on, say, the 900cc Ninja, but that's not an issue because that's faaaaar outside my price range :P
Message edited by author 2008-06-09 10:27:39. |
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06/09/2008 10:44:32 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
I agree with the crowd.. Sure BMWs (and Harleys)are known for longevity (as long as there has been scheduled maintainance). but japanese bikes aren't (aside from maybe the Goldwing) Cafe racer's are nice but are made to drive fast and probably have been. Buy something from the 90s at least or better yet from the 2000 or newer. There are deals out there. |
Harley is specifically one I would avoid from a reliability standpoint. It's not that they are bad, but they are not anywhere near the top of the list, and they are overpriced for basic transportation. BMW is OK for reliability, but not in the same league as Honda; they are somewhat more expensive to service, and more expensive initially.
For reliable, economical transportation, absolutely nothing beats a Honda. Of the other major Japanese brands, my choices in order would be Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha.
I've owned six bikes, five of them Hondas, one a Suzuki. The Suzuki (1981 GS650G) was my first bike, and it is still running.
I've logged nearly a quarter-million miles over the past 27 years. |
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06/09/2008 12:39:50 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Harley is specifically one I would avoid from a reliability standpoint. It's not that they are bad, but they are not anywhere near the top of the list, and they are overpriced for basic transportation. |
One of the biggest problems with Harleys is the whole image and concept......people for whatever reason have no qualms about trying to fix them themselves regardless of whether or not they actually know what they're doing, and consequently, it's easy to get a real POS.
Because of the whole Harley mystique, they hold their value too well and accurate provenance is sometimes a real bear to acquire. Until you're well versed in Harleys, stay far away.....which is a conundrum, 'cause how else do you learn other than by having one. Bad idea for a first experience, IMNSHO.
Basically, there are any number of good Japanese bikes out there for sale that have been well maintained and that have depreciated nicely.
Spend a couple dollars once you get the choices narrowed down and make arrangements to have the dealer check out the machine BEFORE you purchase. Any seller who is not trying to hide anything should be amenable to your paying the tab for this......if he/she has a problem with this, take a pass on the machine.
You're looking at a used machine, so you WILL have maintenance and/or repair costs in the forseeable future, so plan accordingly.......nobody who's getting rid of a bike is looking to spend money freshening it up just to get rid of it.
Last, just another pitch for the safety course.......what you will hear repeatedly: Ride like the other people out there don't see you and are not looking for you......all too often they aren't.
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06/09/2008 02:41:56 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Last, just another pitch for the safety course.......what you will hear repeatedly: Ride like the other people out there don't see you and are not looking for you......all too often they aren't. |
Yes... That's one of the things my parents constantly bring up. My dad even went so far as to buy some ridiculous hi-vis, blaze green riding suit. But it works, I guess. |
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06/09/2008 03:25:36 PM · #17 |
| Make sure you fill out your organ donor card. |
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06/09/2008 08:33:27 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Make sure you fill out your organ donor card. |
The only reason this is necessary is that people in cars are too stupid to notice a vehicle with one headlight instead of two and, to be honest, often have a hard time even noticing an oncoming SUV, for that matter. The danger of motorcycles is primarily one caused by the ineptitude of other drivers (of automobiles), so always check your blind spot instead of telling others to fill out donor cards. |
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06/09/2008 08:51:03 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Make sure you fill out your organ donor card. |
The only reason this is necessary is that people in cars are too stupid to notice a vehicle with one headlight instead of two and, to be honest, often have a hard time even noticing an oncoming SUV, for that matter. The danger of motorcycles is primarily one caused by the ineptitude of other drivers (of automobiles), so always check your blind spot instead of telling others to fill out donor cards. |
So?
The fact is that by riding a motorcycle, you assume a greater risk of dying regardless of where the blame for the fatal accident gets placed. The risk is yours to accept or refuse, but at least if the rider has a donor card is filled out, someone can benefit from it. ER doctors don't refer to motorcycles as "Organ Donor Machines" for nothing.
That's not to mention the idiotic things young people tend to do when given a vehicle with a high horsepower to weight ratio.
You can rail on about SUV drivers and people yammering on their cell phones instead of checking their mirrors all you want, but that isn't going to do any good when you and your motorcycle go toe to toe with a distracted driver and a Hummer.
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06/09/2008 09:06:42 PM · #20 |
| I'm not denying the fact that youngsters with high power vehicles are inherently stupid. Look at any high school student with a Mustang and the universality of the topic is proven. That being said, it is a rider's choice and they do willingly inherit the danger that comes with that decision, but this does not change the fact that the accidents are primarily caused by unaware drivers and that it is quite aggravating when motorists write off the dangers that rider's incur and say "sign a donor card" as the answer, not "maybe I should be more aware." I'm not implying you as a driver are unobservant, but it is a ruling trend and placing the onus on riders for something that isn't caused by them, which I don't agree with. Also, some people drive motorcycles/mopeds for economic reasons, and so they don't always have the luxury of paying for a 3 ton Hummer that can "go toe to toe" with whatever you drive, or better yet, a Bentley that would crumple anything on the road on impact. The same thing can be said of bicyclists- what are they to do? Often the choice to commute on a bicycle is based on ethical or economic reasons, so should they abandon this because drivers are idiots? I'm just saying that it appears to be really easy for people to suggest somebody sign a donor card and then drive like a jackass and cause an accident that necessitates the presence of a donor card. I agree with signing donor cards, regardless of whether you ride or not, on principle. Here the preferred term is Donor Cycle, because it has such a nice ring to it. To clarify- the only reason I said SUV is my city is filled with them because apparently everybody in Colorado drives off road or pulls large trailers (HA!) so it is nearly required for every resident to own one. |
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06/09/2008 09:08:10 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
I agree with the crowd.. Sure BMWs (and Harleys)are known for longevity (as long as there has been scheduled maintainance). but japanese bikes aren't (aside from maybe the Goldwing) Cafe racer's are nice but are made to drive fast and probably have been. Buy something from the 90s at least or better yet from the 2000 or newer. There are deals out there. |
I would disagree with the statement that Japanese bikes aren't known for longevity. It all depends on how the bike was taken care of. My 1987 Honda CBR1000 with about 37K miles starts up fine every time, runs fine, and doesn't leak oil (although it does need fork seal replacements). There are a few lemons in the bike world just like among cars. A used sport bike that's designed to run at high RPMs that hasn't been run too hard will last a long time.
But I wouldn't recommend a sport bike to a new rider...
Message edited by author 2008-06-09 21:08:56. |
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06/09/2008 09:12:37 PM · #22 |
Nothing wrong with older bikes, but as has been mentioned maintenance is important as well as how many owners, was it stored indoors or out, ridden hard and put away wet (sport bikes, young bike owners - beware of both!).
Check on insurance - you may find that large CC and/or sport bikes are more to insure - perhaps a LOT more depending on your age and riding/license situation. It varies a bit by state too. A ninja 250 is a sport bike, but becuase it's low on teh CC scale it's not considered high risk, insurance wise.
On starter bikes expect a few minor dents, dings, nicks. The guy you're talking with sounds like he wrecked the bike, not a parking lot tip over. Needs mirror and windshield, paint, he already did the clutch lever...yeah, it went down. Pick up coils? Not sure on that bike what side they are on but are under a cover on teh side of the engine on teh crank - slide teh bike down the road and you wear thru the cover into the coils. Best advice is don't buy a bike you know or suspect has been wrecked or rebuilt (Here in PA it will be branded with an "R" title it's been rebuilt after an insurance total).
Gas deteriorates with age. Fluids evaporate and solids are left behind. Bike carbs have very small idle passages, so when you put in the fresh gas the solids get sucked up into the carb passages and the bike won't idle well or at all.
My bike history:
11 years as a mechanic, 5 years in parts (yamaha/suzuki dealer that then added kawi and KTM). I've been out of it for a few years but still have friendships with 3 dealership owners and a long time college buddy is a salesman at another shop. My new assistant's husband is a wrench at the local kawi dealership.
Have owned: 74 Suz TS185, 74 Honda XL250 (heavily customized), 73 CB350, 81 Suzuki GS550L, 83 Yamaha Venture touring bike (2), 92 Yamaha Seca 600, 90 (I think) Kawi 650 Dual Sport, 89 GS500E (in the garage now), some 70s kawi 250 2 stroke dualsport for a while. Have ridden most everything made mid 80s to late 90s. Here in PA there is a mandatory annual safety inspection, and part of that inspection is a road test. Best part of the job!
I want a BMW GS model of some sort, or a I think Ural would be cool. I really miss my touring bike.
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06/09/2008 09:18:42 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
I agree with the crowd.. Sure BMWs (and Harleys)are known for longevity (as long as there has been scheduled maintainance). but japanese bikes aren't (aside from maybe the Goldwing) Cafe racer's are nice but are made to drive fast and probably have been. Buy something from the 90s at least or better yet from the 2000 or newer. There are deals out there. |
I don't see that many BMWs to begin with, but the owners have money and appreciate bikes and machinery so they will be well maintainted. Until the early 80s it was common if not mandatory to rebuild you harley every winter. The Evo motor and change in ownership has helped tremendously with that situation.
As for Jap bikes - they're like jap cars - change the oil and tires and they're like a refrigerator - an appliance. What kills them is the third owner who bought the bike for $1000 and it's a hobby for him. If the kid needs braces the bike sits this season out..perhaps even outside. then next year it needs a batt and carb overhaul for $400 and the wife says no, or it needs more and that's all he can afford to spend on it. Or his buddies all have a mid life crisis and get bikes. They ride for 5 years or so and the bike gets passed over for the new fad (golf, boats, whatever) and it sits in the garage for 5 more years ruining the tires, oil, sagging the springs and all the seals dry out so the next poor schmuck that thinks he got a good deal really got a bike that needs a good overhaul. Not bad if you can do it yourself, but costly to pay for it and if you're not told up front, you'll be in every 2 weeks for something and think that jap bikes suck.
You're better off to buy a used bike that was USED, as opposed to stored and forgotten for years.
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06/09/2008 09:40:27 PM · #24 |
On Motorcycle Safety Courses: Absolutely recommend doing this but want to pass on the guidance of my instructor after we all passed the course. He said, "You are all now fully qualified to pilot a motorcycle at speeds not to exceed 30 MPH and only in parking lots!"
Suggest finding a few experienced riders, and asking to ride with them on easy, low performance rides. Follow them and learn from their techniques for a few rides.
Then take the motorcycle safety course, again, on your own bike. Riding motorcycles is great fun, possibly the second most fun thing you can do sitting down. This will set you up for maximum success and tend to minimize the risks.
Incidently, here's my ride:
And here's a link to my blog post about a recent motorcycle trip to Vancouver Island (Canada) which was great fun!
Vancouver Island Road Trip
Message edited by author 2008-06-09 21:52:55. |
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06/09/2008 09:58:14 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
And here's a link to my blog post about a recent motorcycle trip to Vancouver Island (Canada) which was great fun!
Vancouver Island Road Trip |
That is just awesome.
Sounds like a great time.
I have a 15 year Harley Sportster I ride occasionally.
I have a bike, but I am not much of a biker. |
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