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05/28/2008 02:41:38 PM · #1
the winning photos, or even the top 10-20, receive scores of 1's, 2's and 3's. It makes absolutely no sense to me, and I'm sure it makes even less sense to the folks that took these shots. I know that we all have different opinions, but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!
05/28/2008 02:45:57 PM · #2
Do a forum search on trolls :)
05/28/2008 02:53:15 PM · #3
Originally posted by pennyj1957:

... but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!


I think this statement is why it makes no sense to you. You believe this statement to be true, and others (myself included) do not. In fact, that's why we all have a vote. So that we can each say which photos we believe to be good and which we believe to be bad. I highly doubt that the criteria used to determine where on the good/bad scale a photo falls is exactly the same for any two voters.
05/28/2008 03:01:27 PM · #4
Originally posted by pennyj1957:

but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!


This is a true statement. The 'goodness' of a photo can be empirically stated through the law (more like a guideline) of composition. Certain of the laws will create a predictable reaction in the majority of viewers which is why they become laws in the first place. It is the use and application of these 'laws' that gives us art.

Saying "I know what I like" is merely affirming the validity of the laws.
05/28/2008 03:01:47 PM · #5
^ What he said.

eta

Originally posted by freakin_hilarious:

Originally posted by pennyj1957:

... but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!


I think this statement is why it makes no sense to you. You believe this statement to be true, and others (myself included) do not. In fact, that's why we all have a vote. So that we can each say which photos we believe to be good and which we believe to be bad. I highly doubt that the criteria used to determine where on the good/bad scale a photo falls is exactly the same for any two voters.


I meant what freakin_hilarious said.

As an example I'll use the Mona Lisa, everyone seems to think this is the most beautiful painted portrait ever. Every time I see the painting I ask myself why do I not like it? It hasn't grown on me throughout my life and probably never will. I know the painter was a very skilled artist but that particular painting, to me, is just flat out boring to look at.

Message edited by author 2008-05-28 15:06:40.
05/28/2008 03:04:08 PM · #6
Originally posted by BeeCee:

Do a forum search on trolls :)


I know, those dang trolls have no sense of good, bad or indifferent!!!
05/28/2008 03:06:16 PM · #7
Originally posted by pennyj1957:

the winning photos, or even the top 10-20, receive scores of 1's, 2's and 3's. It makes absolutely no sense to me, and I'm sure it makes even less sense to the folks that took these shots. I know that we all have different opinions, but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!


All DNMC, good photo or not, get a 1 from me. Don't think one of them has won lately, but still... it's possible.
05/28/2008 03:11:03 PM · #8
The current front page is fine, but there is at least one image in the top 10's that I think looks terrible and would've given a 2, probably. Even after knowing it did very well, I still thinks it stinks. Horses for courses...
05/28/2008 03:13:06 PM · #9
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by pennyj1957:

the winning photos, or even the top 10-20, receive scores of 1's, 2's and 3's. It makes absolutely no sense to me, and I'm sure it makes even less sense to the folks that took these shots. I know that we all have different opinions, but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!


All DNMC, good photo or not, get a 1 from me. Don't think one of them has won lately, but still... it's possible.


Hawkeye, I agree about the DNMC's, I guess I am really more surprised about the winners. And I know, everyone looks at things differently, just like when you get the comment that says "your lighting is awesome" and the very next comment says "you really need to work on better lighting". LOL
05/28/2008 03:29:47 PM · #10
My personal theory on this is that some people vote with a scale of BAD <---> GOOD, while others vote using a scale of DISLIKE <---> LIKE. Those who lean toward the latter scale will give low votes to good photos that they simply don't care for.

That oversimplifying it, of course, as most of us are influenced in both regards. I may not give a 9 to a shot that does not personally appeal to me, but I will try to recognize good work with a decent vote. For instance, many photos done by ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' biteme have a macabre feel that I don't personally care for. However, they are good photos and I don't think I've ever given a shot of hers less than a 6.
05/28/2008 03:44:43 PM · #11
Originally posted by Jac:

^ What he said.

eta

Originally posted by freakin_hilarious:

Originally posted by pennyj1957:

... but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!


I think this statement is why it makes no sense to you. You believe this statement to be true, and others (myself included) do not. In fact, that's why we all have a vote. So that we can each say which photos we believe to be good and which we believe to be bad. I highly doubt that the criteria used to determine where on the good/bad scale a photo falls is exactly the same for any two voters.


I meant what freakin_hilarious said.

As an example I'll use the Mona Lisa, everyone seems to think this is the most beautiful painted portrait ever. Every time I see the painting I ask myself why do I not like it? It hasn't grown on me throughout my life and probably never will. I know the painter was a very skilled artist but that particular painting, to me, is just flat out boring to look at.


I do not care for the 'Mona Lisa' nor do I care for many 'traditional' photographers/artists that people ohh and ahhh over.

Photography is subjective, and well, even though there are laws/guidelines or whatever, and an image can be technically perfect, it does not make it a good image in my eyes because 20 or 5million other people said it is.

After four years I am still waiting for an image I scored as a top 3 to be on the front page. Has not happened yet.

So in proof, your statement;

Originally posted by pennyj1957:

... but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!


Is completely false. Under the one and only pretense of one can not speak for another on their own preference.

There is no spoon.
05/28/2008 03:49:37 PM · #12
So in proof, your statement;

Originally posted by pennyj1957:
... but a good photo is a good photo no matter who you are!

Is completely false. Under the one and only pretense of one can not speak for another on their own preference.


As I said previously... everyone looks at things differently!!!
05/28/2008 03:54:15 PM · #13
Just to throw a small anecdote out there. My latest challenge entry received a total of 4 one's and two's. It ended up 11th. (Personal best by the way). My "Holgafied" Holga shot had only 3 one's and two's and placed 127/137.
On the other end of the spectrum that "Holgafied" Holga received only 5 9's and 10's where as the other shot received 21.

The point I am making is some people just throw around 1 and 2's. You are going to get them regardless of the quality of your image. We know that this stuff has been discussed ad nauseam. You aren't going to stop people from voting low on images and only very rarely do people stop to tell us why they voted that way.

The question I would like to raise is this: How do we get past that and move on? How do we stop it from bothering us?

edit to clarify

Message edited by author 2008-05-28 15:55:58.
05/28/2008 03:55:47 PM · #14
If you were the type of person to vote down people competing against you, wouldn't it make sense to assign the lowest scores to the best entries since they are the most likely to "steal" your ribbon?
05/28/2008 04:02:08 PM · #15
Citadel,
I totally understand what you are saying... I guess we just assume the trolls will get everyone!!
05/28/2008 04:31:07 PM · #16
Ok, I am totally new here, but why are you even allowed to vote in a challenge that you enter?
Wouldn't it make sense to stop that?
05/28/2008 04:41:53 PM · #17
Originally posted by flickmat:

Ok, I am totally new here, but

That about sums it up! Just teasing you, but really, this has been debated ad nauseum.
05/28/2008 11:49:46 PM · #18
Does not have to be a troll. Imagine my surprise to see this photo on the front page as the winning photo for Movie Titles II.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/863/120/680316.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/863/120/680316.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

1: 0 votes
2: 1 votes <---- My vote
3: 0 votes
4: 3 votes
...

I still do not see the appeal, but I'll believe what the majority says. To me it was uninteresting subject and had a wierd patterns in the background that I found very distracting (especially in the lower right). The title also did not seem to match well with the photo.

My top 3 finished in 24th, 28th, and 88th places, so I had a poor voting correlation with everyone else on this challenge. Of course, my photos usually score towards the bottom, so what do I know about art :)

-Bob
05/29/2008 12:02:26 AM · #19
I had 2 votes of 1, but I am pretty sure it was due to people thinking it was not basic editing and not waiting for review. If it is trolls, wow, thats low.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/863/120/680587.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/863/120/680587.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I have been guilty of this, but I will never vote like that again. I was kinda proud to have something shot within basic and yet questioned bc it looked so interesting.
05/29/2008 12:40:22 AM · #20
Originally posted by bobnospum:

Does not have to be a troll. Imagine my surprise to see this photo on the front page as the winning photo for Movie Titles II.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/863/120/680316.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/863/120/680316.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

1: 0 votes
2: 1 votes <---- My vote
3: 0 votes
4: 3 votes
...

I still do not see the appeal, but I'll believe what the majority says. To me it was uninteresting subject and had a wierd patterns in the background that I found very distracting (especially in the lower right). The title also did not seem to match well with the photo.

My top 3 finished in 24th, 28th, and 88th places, so I had a poor voting correlation with everyone else on this challenge. Of course, my photos usually score towards the bottom, so what do I know about art :)

-Bob


Bob,
Thanks for coming forward about your scoring on this photo. If this had been my photo and had rec'd the 1 it would have been great to have the comment left so that I knew the reason behind the score. Your reasons could maybe help someone make their photo even better. I really appreciate all the differences of opinions here at DPC.
05/29/2008 12:58:03 AM · #21
We all want our masterpiece to score highly, and it's always disappointing to get that low score slap in the face. However, I do have appreciation for the people that take the time to tell me why they gave a low vote. (Even the one who left me a 3 and a DNMC comment this afternoon!)
05/29/2008 01:06:59 AM · #22
Looking at the kind of pictures that get a lot of low scores (especially 1s), I conclude that some people do not judge the quality of the photo, but rather its content.

Some people don't like nudity or even just sexual references. -> They give a 1 to every picture showing a bit of skin.

Some people don't like anything that might be interpreted as violent. -> They give a 1 to every picture that might be considered to have anything to do with violence.

Some people don't like certain activities, sports, etc. -> They give a 1 to every picture showing any of them.

I think they are missing the point. A good picture is still a good picture, even if it shows something you personally don't like or something that is unpleasant. I even think it's important that unpleasant things are captured by photography to make people aware of them.

Another issue: Some people give out 1s if they think the image was created illegaly (i.e., by violating the editing rules). This is unfortunate because in many cases it turns out that the image is totally legitimate (and it often affects really good images with a clever setup). So: Always assume a picture was created legally. If it was not, it will be disqualified.

And one more: I would really appreciate it if people rating images very low (1, 2, 3) left a comment. Write "I hate tennis!", so that at least the photographer knows why they got the low vote. To encourage honest comments of this kind, it would be good to have an anonymous commenting function (with comments remaining anonymous forever).

Message edited by author 2008-05-29 01:07:28.
05/29/2008 01:37:50 AM · #23
I pretty much echo what has been said before about each person seeing things differently. With all due respect to ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' njsabs2323, but I really didn't care for her blue ribbon entry...

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/861/120/678258.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/861/120/678258.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Granted I gave it a 5, not a 1, but I didn't care for the blurring on the edges. Had the center not been so spectacular, I would easily have given this a 2 or a 3 (1's are quite rare). Apparently, about 170 people disagreed with me.

That being said, at least a left a comment as to why I voted low.

*** Edit for pathetic grammar.

Message edited by author 2008-05-29 01:38:42.
05/29/2008 01:47:15 AM · #24
I hate to say this but DPC isn't full of perfect photos yet some give out 10s like they are going out of style. Frankly, anybody who hands out 1s and 10s regularly are not voting on the photo's merits but rather on something else entirely (ex. a personal bias, perceived DNMC, the spouse is giving you crap, you're in a good mood, you're trying to cheat, this looks like so and so's and I hate/love that person's work, etc, etc.)

If you really want to know how your photo compares against another based more on it's merits just recalculate after the outliers are removed.

Message edited by author 2008-05-29 02:02:08.
05/29/2008 03:22:33 AM · #25
Personally, I don't think many of the photos on DPC deserve all the 10's they get. I think some people just vote 10 for personal reasons just like the people who give out 1's - like they have some bias for or against the subject, etc. It might also be some people trying to cheat or recognizing a friend's image. I think a true measure of the ranking would occur if we just counted the votes from 2-9.
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