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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> jlanoue - The best DPCer you'll never credit
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05/18/2008 02:28:39 PM · #1
jlanoue is probably the best photographer at DPChallenge who will never get reasonable credit for his amazing work.

His incredible images have never placed in the the top 20 in any challenge.

He has submitted 10 photographs to DPC challenges that culminate years of time, effort, acquired skills and expense probably unmatched by anyone who has ever been here.

To understand my point read his own humble words:
How to take an Astrophoto

Scores of photographers have placed far higher with pictures made from cardboard cutouts constructed on kitchen tables or made from pictures off a computer screen where they proudly explain in great detail how they did it. Then we Oooh and Aaah at their skill and effort.

Not intending to demean Jason's work in any way, but DrAchoo has snapshots from his back yard taken on the spur of the moment place far higher than any of jlanoue's photos. jlanoue has never finished higher than Jason's average placing.


This picture is as good as one just like it from the famous Hale Collection of deep space objects. I know because I've used that Hale image in astronomy lectures numerous times. jlanoue's accomplishment is roughly similar to a DPC landscape photographer taking a picture as good as Ansel Adams.

Take these two photos for example:
...
Both were taken by jlanoue and placed roughly the same in their respective challenges. The first is a TRUE snapshot taken with auto settings without any post processing. The second was captured using the skills jlanoue has acquired through years of experimentation and painstaking failures and after many, many thousands of dollars of investment.

DPCers justifiable fancy themselves as the most sophisticated and knowledgeable amateur photographers at the very best photo competition site on the Internet. They have plenty of good reasons to think that. You can and should be proud.

Perhaps now, though, it is the time for DPCers to begin to expand their horizons a little bit beyond Haystack Rock, cutesy ideas, bug macros, St. Peters Cathedral across from the Millennium Bridge, clever or extreme post processing, portraitures, the Sydney Opera House, red rock landscapes and "meeting the challenge".
05/18/2008 02:47:37 PM · #2
I have no doubt that you are right.

I do worry though that while it is one thing to truly appreciate the amount of expense and work that goes into astrophotography we will never be advancing these photos based on this.

John will always be able to trump the bokeh, but this is no different than allowing the drip to win everytime because we appreciate the timing involved.

I do appreciate astrophotography, but I think of DPC as more of a General photography site.

Anyway, I get it. You are probably right. I hope John is active in the specific astrophotography community. I am sure he is garnering much acclaim from contemporaries.
05/18/2008 02:51:46 PM · #3
I love his work because I love astronomy. I have browsed his images many times and have even studied them greatly. I even commented on his Rosetta Nebulae photo while in voting and I appreciate the fact he does what he does here at DPC. I don't think i've seen any other DPCer who has an interest in astro-photography. Hope he keeps on doing what he does.

I know many astronomers and astro-photgraphers and I have noticed one thing in all. They do it for themselves, not for others. Also, astronomy is not liked by everyone and some find it rather boring to view 'star pictures' because, I think, to them they all look the same. What i'm trying to say is here at DPC his images may not be doing well in voting but on an astronomy site they would probably rake in many prizes and adulation because the subject matter is what people expect.
05/18/2008 03:03:01 PM · #4
I know about jlanoue's work, i never knew he had never made a top 20. That's really surprising, especially since astro photography is probably the hardest type.
05/18/2008 03:25:19 PM · #5
He has a remarkable dedication to his craft and I have a tremendous respect for his work. Plus... his images are beautiful! Maybe DPC could do one of their interviews with him.
05/18/2008 03:45:18 PM · #6
Originally posted by Hotspam:

...
I do worry though that while it is one thing to truly appreciate the amount of expense and work that goes into astrophotography we will never be advancing these photos based on this.
...
I am sure he is garnering much acclaim from contemporaries.

You forgot to mention the most important thing he does have that DPCers do value and which should 'advance' his photography... skill.

I looked... if he is receiving accolades elsewhere there is not much evidence of it on the Net. I suspect he's never sought validation of his work from anyone but DPC and a tiny, unknown fraternity of the best amateur astrophotographers around.

Supposedly this is a teaching and learning site. If so, then there appears to be room for more growth. Growth benefits us all but we need to be open to new learning.

Message edited by author 2008-05-18 15:47:44.
05/18/2008 03:47:31 PM · #7
so does this member !

hihi:-) :blush

Message edited by author 2008-05-18 16:37:37.
05/18/2008 03:54:26 PM · #8
Originally posted by goc:

so does this member !


Might have worked if you'd got the link right hehe
05/18/2008 04:01:17 PM · #9
Originally posted by Artifacts:

Not intending to demean Jason's work in any way, but DrAchoo has snapshots from his back yard taken on the spur of the moment place far higher than any of jlanoue's photos. jlanoue has never finished higher than Jason's average placing.


Watch it Steve. I'm moving to Eugene at the end of the summer and I can find you! ;)
05/18/2008 04:07:40 PM · #10
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Artifacts:

Not intending to demean Jason's work in any way, but DrAchoo has snapshots from his back yard taken on the spur of the moment place far higher than any of jlanoue's photos. jlanoue has never finished higher than Jason's average placing.


Watch it Steve. I'm moving to Eugene at the end of the summer and I can find you! ;)

Jason, I'd take great pleasure doing "snapshots" with you any time after you find me. You are equally as entertaining and interesting in person as your photographs are good.

Eugene is the perfect town for an allergist.
05/18/2008 04:16:55 PM · #11
It's just a case where DPC is not the be all and end all of photography. Many great images do not score highly because they do not have the broad appeal needed here. The sure way to score highly is to copy duplicate be inspired by the high scoring photo of someone else.
05/18/2008 04:27:25 PM · #12
Originally posted by yospiff:

... Many great images do not score highly because they do not have the broad appeal needed here. ...

You make a good point.

Is DPC primarily a fine art photography competition site or primarily a place for students of photography to learn and skilled photographers to teach?

If it is primarily the second over the first then as students and teachers we have the responsibility to do more than rate photographs low because they don't fit the fine art mold or for failing to "meet the challenge".
05/18/2008 05:21:13 PM · #13
jlanoue's work is part of what inspired me to start this thread. Lots of photographers here receive mediocre scores because their work doesn't appeal to the masses. ( cutout is another excellent example.)

While good photographs score high and win challenges at DPC, the converse isn't necessraily true -- i.e. that scoring low means your photograph is bad.

While I never see an astrophotograph (if I could bastardize terminology) topping anything but an astrophotography or related challenge, I still think it's possible to see something really dazzling at least break the Top 10. (And at looking at his profile again, some of his celestial shots have come pretty close.)

Message edited by author 2008-05-18 17:22:37.
05/18/2008 05:28:34 PM · #14
Originally posted by bvy:

jlanoue's work is part of what inspired me to start this thread.

Your discussion is the reason I became aware of his work.
05/18/2008 05:57:52 PM · #15
OK, I just browsed his images and one has to admit the astrophotography is absolutely stunning, the very best. However, I have seen it all before, it doesnt break new ground, maybe on this site, but in general I can view 1000s of images like this on NASA or SPACE.COM, and the thing is, a shot of the andromeda galaxy will look pretty much the same as the ones on those sites.. thats not to detract from the skill and expertise required to achieve these images, but a lot of people have already seen a lot of images almost exactly the same.

I hope I am not coming across as arrogant and dismissive of his work, which I mentioned above is of the highest calibre, but just trying to understand why his shots dont do as well as one would expect.
05/18/2008 06:06:58 PM · #16
Originally posted by Simms:

OK, I just browsed his images and one has to admit the astrophotography is absolutely stunning, the very best. However, I have seen it all before, it doesnt break new ground, maybe on this site, but in general I can view 1000s of images like this on NASA or SPACE.COM, and the thing is, a shot of the andromeda galaxy will look pretty much the same as the ones on those sites.. thats not to detract from the skill and expertise required to achieve these images, but a lot of people have already seen a lot of images almost exactly the same.

I hope I am not coming across as arrogant and dismissive of his work, which I mentioned above is of the highest calibre, but just trying to understand why his shots dont do as well as one would expect.


I am going to disagree. I would say that most people don't even know of the web sites you mentioned.
I would say they don't understand the shots. They can more easily relate to a pony or pretty mountain. And there is nothing wrong with that.

And no, I don't think you were rude.

Message edited by author 2008-05-18 18:09:28.
05/18/2008 06:27:23 PM · #17
Originally posted by Simms:

OK, I just browsed his images and one has to admit the astrophotography is absolutely stunning, the very best. However, I have seen it all before, it doesnt break new ground, maybe on this site, but in general I can view 1000s of images like this on NASA or SPACE.COM, and the thing is, a shot of the andromeda galaxy will look pretty much the same as the ones on those sites.. thats not to detract from the skill and expertise required to achieve these images, but a lot of people have already seen a lot of images almost exactly the same.

I hope I am not coming across as arrogant and dismissive of his work, which I mentioned above is of the highest calibre, but just trying to understand why his shots dont do as well as one would expect.


Exactly my point above. His work will be most appreciated by his peers in his field, not flower shooters. ;\ <--- a very very vague generalization, I know.
05/18/2008 07:26:55 PM · #18
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by Simms:

OK, I just browsed his images and one has to admit the astrophotography is absolutely stunning, the very best. However, I have seen it all before, it doesnt break new ground, maybe on this site, but in general I can view 1000s of images like this on NASA or SPACE.COM, and the thing is, a shot of the andromeda galaxy will look pretty much the same as the ones on those sites.. thats not to detract from the skill and expertise required to achieve these images, but a lot of people have already seen a lot of images almost exactly the same.

I hope I am not coming across as arrogant and dismissive of his work, which I mentioned above is of the highest calibre, but just trying to understand why his shots dont do as well as one would expect.


Exactly my point above. His work will be most appreciated by his peers in his field, not flower shooters. ;\ <--- a very very vague generalization, I know.


The same point I was going to make. And that's the whole gist of pointing that he (or any astrophotogrpaher) is going to have a small following. To you or me or anyone else with a casual interest in astronomy, all the images do tend to look alike. Within the field though, all images of Andromeda don't look alike. It's just like a rock listener with no other musical interests saying that all jazz/classical/whatever music sounds alike.

So, sure, you've seen one galaxy, you've seen 'em all. But an eagle or an owl...
05/18/2008 07:30:21 PM · #19
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by Simms:



Exactly my point above. His work will be most appreciated by his peers in his field, not flower shooters. ;\ <--- a very very vague generalization, I know.


Glad you called it "vague generalization" Jac. Now, even as a flower shooter, (and I've shot a fair number of 'em) I can still get a thrill out of beautifully done astrophotography and marvel at what can be done with a 300d or 350xt. And wish I had the stuff to stick on the end of those models to get the images jlanoue does, or also check out pascal who's been at it a while too with some awesome images to show.

Anyhow, my point is that more people than you might think are aware of NASA and SPACE photographs, having been exposed to "up close and personal" images of space since the '60s.

As far as low scoring is concerned, maybe it's because it's usually something of a shoehorn to get an nebula image into a nice Bird Challenge, for example.

In any event, the photographers referenced in this thread are exceptional in their dedication to good imagery and I'm glad to have the chance to look at their portfolios again.

Thanks to the OP for bringing this to the forefront.
05/18/2008 07:43:04 PM · #20
I think I addressed this point eloquently and with some distinguished authority (ahem, ;-0)) in my Astrophotography Tutorial:

As a rule, astrophotos do not do especially well in DPC challenges, unless they're spectacularly well done with considerable artistic "wow" factor. The average DPC voter is not going to recognize how hard you worked to obtain a fuzzy image of a galaxy, and shots of the moon are a dime a dozen. To get the voters' attention with an astro shot, as with any challenge, you need to hit them upside the head with a drop-dead gorgeous shot. That means thoughtful and artistic composition, emotional impact, and nailing the technicals (sharpness, color, etc.). Below are a few examples of some DPC shots (both challenge and non-challenge) that I have been extremely impressed with over the years, and that have been received well by other members too.

...and see the end of the tutorial for the images I picked.
05/18/2008 08:18:44 PM · #21
I grew up loving deep sky photos. I respect the time and effort put into these images but after awhile they lose their luster. What's missing is the art, which demands uniqueness and self identity something astrophotography cannot deliver. The real appeal of these images are as keepsakes, IMO.
05/18/2008 08:54:55 PM · #22
He has a talent and a passion for sure. I can only say that although I have admired his stuff for quite some time, I have not acknowledged that in any way and I hope that I did so somewhat tonight. I also have to admit I am somewhat envious (a source of delay for acknowledgment perhaps??) as this is one area that intrigues me greatly and I have yet to attempt it. Why? I look at shots like this and know that I cannot come close. And I don't have the equipment. One day...

Kudos to John! Well deserved.
05/18/2008 09:14:49 PM · #23
Originally posted by yanko:

I grew up loving deep sky photos. I respect the time and effort put into these images but after awhile they lose their luster. What's missing is the art, which demands uniqueness and self identity something astrophotography cannot deliver. The real appeal of these images are as keepsakes, IMO.

Well, yanko this is one of the few times I'll disagree with you (excepting DPL of course, as a matter of principle :-/) because all these images are eye candy to me, and I hope to others. It's all so new. If you check out the Digital Art in Pascal's portfolio where he combines two or many more images to create a new composition, it's even more fun (for the easily jaded). I'm not going to quibble about the artificial sun he throws in once in a while, artistic license, you know.

Still this rather fabulous imagery available to us only in the last 50-60 years or so, is tough to regard as, um, keepsake photography.
05/18/2008 09:25:45 PM · #24
Well as someone that is just starting the practice of astrophotography I will say that his images are amazing. His skill and patience are masterful.

The art is the science yanko.

The specialized equipment, time and knowledge to capture such images is extensive and I aspire to his level. If I get just one good shot of Barnard 33 I will consider myself extremely lucky and to this extent would cherish that image as a keepsake for the rest-O-my days. :-P

Message edited by author 2008-05-18 21:31:55.
05/19/2008 01:11:24 AM · #25
Originally posted by Simms:

OK, I just browsed his images and one has to admit the astrophotography is absolutely stunning, the very best. However, I have seen it all before, it doesnt
break new ground, maybe on this site, but in general I can view 1000s of images like this on NASA or SPACE.COM, and the thing is, a shot of the andromeda galaxy will look pretty much the same as the ones on those sites.

When you compare his work to the '1000s' you see on NASA or space.com you are giving nothing less than the highest form of praise you could give.

Though there are some amateur images on both those sites the vast majority of them are from professionals, from large observatories, from the Hubble space telescope or from spacecraft or space-based instruments. Its like saying a DPC landscape photographer's work matches up with the best from National Geographic or Sunset Magazines; or saying that a DPC wedding photographer's works is as good as the best professional wedding photographers in the world.

Missing the Point?
I mention jlanoue because his images are the fruits from year's long efforts to develop and perfect his technique and the results are stunning imagery few here could even dream of duplicating. We've bestowed ribbons to aurora borealis pictures tons of times yet they require an infinitesimal fraction of the talent and effort needed for jlanoue's work.

You might be missing my point for starting this discussion. This discussion isn't about astrophotography at all; it is about understanding and appreciating ALL forms of photography, not just 'fine art'.

You say his imagery "doesn't break new ground". Heck, we already reward pictures we've seen before that "doesn't break new ground".

How many ribbon winning pictures of Haystack Rock, or Antelope Canyon, or the Sydney Opera House, or London's St. Peters, or sunsets or bug macros do we need before we decide they "don't break new ground" anymore and stop rewarding them?

I, for one, don't think we should ever stop rewarding good photography even if we've seen it '1000s' of times before.

My point is that DPC as a site might benefit by expanding its horizons a bit further to include other equally worthy expressions of photography beyond what has been traditionally rewarded.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe being a fine art photography competition site is all it ever needs to be. That certainly isn't a bad thing.
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