Problems with the d70 - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

03/21/2004 02:20:45 PM · #8

howdy.

i'm not going to defend the camera just because i bought it and think it's great or anything.

BUT i've read a lot about this and it happens at shutter speeds higher than 1/2000 but ONLY on ISO 200 (which is the lowest ISO for the d70). also, i've not seen anything about anyone in the US or Europe having this problem. chances are, this is something to do with the electronic shutter, and chances are that a firmware upgrade will take care of it. there is already a firmware upgrade out (tho i've not checked to see if i need it or not -- possible that US and Europe's cameras shipped with it).

as for test shots: i've tried. 1/8000 (or even 1/2500) is such an insanely high speed that everything i've tried to take is really dark. it's been quite crappy outside, but i just tried to shoot the sky anyway and, other than snow on my lens, i see no color issues. *shrug*

i wouldn't let this stop anyone from buying this camera. in my short time with it, it's been awesome. i am still plodding my way through the manual, and trying to shoot whatever i can. like i said, it's been crummy all weekend.

let me know if there are any questions i can answer. i'll certainly try my best.

in the meantime....

Azrifel

Nikon Coolpix P340

03/21/2004 02:21:58 PM · #9

How about this D70 moire problem:
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=8080951

Perhaps that Kodak SLR/n isn't so bad...

muckpond

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

03/21/2004 02:51:49 PM · #10

i can't respond to that one. it's such an extreme example that something had to be physically wrong with that particular camera. if you read the entire thread, the person doesn't sound extremely credible. but, who knows?

i've not seen anything of the sort in ANY of the other test images i've seen (and, mind you, i've seen a ton).

there do seem to be some occasional moire problems in the jpeg compression in the camera, but those are easily corrected in post or by shooting in RAW. again, i'm just re-stating what i've read. i've not seen any problems in my few tests.

i'm sure i will know much more next week after i've put the camera through its paces in a real-world, action sports, outdoor environment.

kreybar

Nikon D70

03/21/2004 03:00:38 PM · #11

Sorry , I meant from owners @ DPC . Just finished all the comments @ DPreview . Quite a stir & humorous as well at times , but not enough objective scientific info to form a conclusion . I'm sure Nikon will be all over this one . I've been waiting to purchase so I'm quite curious about the final results . Guess I'll have to wait & save more money for that Bigma , not a bad thing I guess .

Azrifel

Nikon Coolpix P340

03/21/2004 03:17:02 PM · #12

Originally posted by muckpond:

i wouldn't let this stop anyone from buying this camera.

I agree. Can't think of any still even toned subject that one would wish to shoot @ 1/4000 to 1/8000s. I have used those shutterspeeds with the S602Z only about 20 times and the subjects were not of a kind where you'd notice such a color shift. It might also be less with good exposure compensation. Just pointing the camera at a bright sky or piece of bright lit white paper fools the exposure meter quite a bit. When exposed right there might not even be a shift.

I think that the moiré guy is credible. The image you see is a crop from a fullsize 6mp image. With some selective color corrections I think that you wouldn't see it on a print. Stuff like that can happen when the pattern of the subject plays tricks with the CCD photodiode alingment I guess. With the S602Z I get it with the wings of windmills under certain angles, even as extreme as shown in the link. Wouldn't stop me.

rcrawford

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/21/2004 07:38:45 PM · #13

I just got my D70 yesterday so I haven�t had much time to play with it yet.
I don�t see much of a problem with the Red/Green color shift that others are talking about. From what I have read the problem only occurs at shutter speeds above 1/2000 using ISO 200. The attached picture was shot in shutter priority mode at 1/4000 and ISO 200. It was a little under exposed, I only adjusted levels and resized.
The other photos are just for fun.

Roger

Red/Green Color Problem?

Nikon D70 Test #1

Nikon D70 Test #2

muckpond

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

03/21/2004 07:59:57 PM · #14

curse you and your blue skies!

Jacko

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

03/21/2004 08:24:44 PM · #15

I second that. grr

Originally posted by muckpond:

curse you and your blue skies!

03/21/2004 08:43:11 PM · #16

Wow! I woke up this morning to quite a controversy. If the problems reported are indeed real, this problem needs to be addressed by Nikon asap. I found that other aspects of colour reproduction, in particular white balance, weren't as accurate as I had hoped for, but this red/ green one is new for me.

The above post shows the sky clearly darker on the right side, even though the scene was more or less even at the time (slightly brighter from a dying sun on the left). I had put the eventual difference down to post-shooting editing. I'm not so sure now. The shutter speed was only 1/200.

Only time and more research will tell. However, if my memory serves me right, the Canon Kiss/ Rebel/ 300D also had teething problems.

03/21/2004 08:49:38 PM · #17

Taking of other problems with the D70, or rather a wishlist of features I wish it had, here are two that are starting to bug me.

1 Only 1 user-set white balance at a time. (The minolta has 3)
2 Only 1 user preset memory. Actually, none, just the present setting. (The minolta has 5).

Kneeforu

Nikon D70s

03/21/2004 09:31:19 PM · #18

rcrawford....great pics!!

Message edited by author 2004-03-21 21:32:01.

03/21/2004 10:39:04 PM · #19

First of the bat, I'm not a photography scientist, so the following experiment may be riddled with flaws. If you find any, please let me know, I'm eager to improve my measurebation. (But not too much.)

I've done a little test, trying to keep the variables as rigid as possible. I've written all my steps so you can judge for yourself the validity of my results.

Procedure

[Shooting set up]
1 Lens cleaned to reduce possibility of dust causing confusion with aberration
2 Lens hood attached to reduce possibility of flare and to keep contrast constant
3 White balance set using an 18% grey card
4 Tripod set
5 Focal length fixed
6 Focus set manually
7 Spot meter used to set exposure to maintain uniformity throughout the exposures
8 All shots taken in the space of 1 minute to reduce the risk of conditions changing
9 Conditions:
Sky - almost uniformly grey, overcast, bright
Time - 11:35am
10 Aperture set to allow Tvs of over 1/2000
11 Aperture settings to be
a) f5 - 1/3200
b) f4.5 - 1/2500
c) f4 - 1/2000
3 exposures - all spot metered at zone 5. The actual brightness value of the sceen is much higher than the metered final exposure, of course, as a bright grey sky requires an exposure compensation of +2
12 Shutter released via remote to reduce any possibility of blur aberration
13 All tests shots will be edit-free. However, all test shots will be resized for the web. Analysis will be done on the full-size shots, not the resized ones, and it will be noted if and if resizing introduces noticable aberration. Resizing done in ps at quality 100.
14 The grey sky provides an ideal test ground as neither red, green, or blue channels will be dominant. The lines in the test are from nearby power cables - the dark area at the bottom are nearby hills and trees
15 Testing will be done in RGB mode

Discussion

I couldn't see any hues at all in any of the shots. Judge for yourself.

If there are problems with red/ green hues, they don't seem to affect every D70 unit. The problems mentioned on DPReview were mostly from Korea, suggesting that the problem may be localised or that the Korean testing procedure may be questionable.

Here are the three test shots.

f5, 1/2000

f4.5, 1/2500

f4, 1/3200

Message edited by author 2004-03-22 11:26:31.

Maverick

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

03/21/2004 10:51:46 PM · #20

What iso value did you use? I read a few of the posts at dpreview and it seems the issue only occurs with iso 200 (combined with the high shutter speeds)

kreybar

Nikon D70

03/21/2004 11:09:05 PM · #21

WOW ! Thanks Jim , everything looks fine . Hope you're right about the problem being localised to Korea .
rcrawford , Thank you too , those forms look familiar , somewhere near Priest & Hardy in Tempe ? Nice exposure so I guess the AZ D70's are OK , huh . LOL

rcrawford

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/21/2004 11:54:38 PM · #22

Thanks Kevin.
I took those pictures at a little park on Priest and Queen Creek in Chandler.

03/22/2004 12:41:37 AM · #23

Originally posted by Maverick:

What iso value did you use? I read a few of the posts at dpreview and it seems the issue only occurs with iso 200 (combined with the high shutter speeds)

Sorry, I should have mentioned that these were taken at iso 200.

tezza73uk