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04/28/2008 10:02:24 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by smellyfish1002:
I believe it was poor judgement by Annie Lebovitz, poor judgement by her parents, and poor judgement by Vanity Fair. You could say it was poor judgement on Miley's part, but what 15 year old has good judgement??? |
Leibowitz got paid big bucks to shoot the magazine's concept. Miley and her parents stand to make huge bucks from riding this wave; the lifespan of a teen sensation can be painfully short, they are following the curve where it needs to go. Vanity Fair can be "blamed", but they reflect the culture at least as much as they create it. It's all a mess in a lot of ways, but this is like shooting the messenger.
R. |
I am looking at this from a parent's perspective, as I have three young kids. I shoot a lot of senior portraits and I would not do a shot like this. I just think it is unethical to shoot a minor in a semi nude pose, classy as this image is. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a wonderful image, but not for a 15 year old.
If we look at this situation from the best way to exploit a celebrity for the biggest cash impact, I'd say they nailed it. You are also right about this reflecting culture. As a conservative Christian parent, I hate where culture has taken our teenage celebrities in the last couple of decades...
JD
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04/28/2008 10:06:38 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
We get your point, but I don't hear you offering a cross-section of people that youth should/will look up to. Nobody particularly wants their kids looking up to these people, but that is what corporate culture is offering. We all wish it were different. |
There are plenty of people around that your kids could be looking up to. Many were mentioned in this thread. Most of them I would assume wouldn't be in popular culture and popular music in particular. I'm sure you can find more if you think about it. I'd offer mine but they are now dead, formerly middle-aged bongo players and other characters of disrepute that I was introduced to by my brother. |
Holy crap, I agree with Gordon! At 15 or around that age, role models should be your parents, your older siblings, relatives, teachers, neighbors, people in your everyday life that are doing good things and treating people right. I could name numerous female role models not known for their physical beauty but no one knows them. I'd hope everyone in this thread could name numerous role model worthy young women other then singers, models, actresses or sports figures. |
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04/29/2008 12:47:18 AM · #78 |
Rachel Hullin's blog has several posts mostly about related themes today. Takes in the obvious usual suspects like Sally Mann along the way, too.
//blog.photoshelter.com/ |
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04/29/2008 01:01:08 AM · #79 |
As a proud father of a 16 year old girl and a pastor of a church that includes many young women, I really appreciate DrAchoo's (Jason's) comments and TOTALLY agree with him. We are sexualising kids ahead of their time for money and we will eventually pay the price with deep regret...ask Britts. Thanks Jason for your honesty. Annie may be a great photographer, but I think there were puppeteer strings attatched to her hands of greedy media moguls and magazine execs who want to make money no matter what the cost.
Message edited by author 2008-04-29 01:01:34. |
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04/29/2008 01:41:41 AM · #80 |
Girls have role models – their parents. I cannot imagine any child being encouraged to take as a role model a young actress. If anyone has small children and is concerned about their identifying with them, then it might be a good idea to redirect their attention to more healthy pursuits.
For example – two extremes:
Midori’s mother sat with her from an early age while she learned the violin. Midori debuted at the age of 11 and now devotes much time to young performers. If good looking is the criteria – well, Midori is just beautiful.
Midori
Tragically, JonBenet Ramsey’s mother was a beauty queen, and introduced her daughter to the genre at a very early age.
Child Beauty Pagaents
While we can't do much about the unhealthy stuff that's out there, maybe it's just a good idea to give kids the values to understand and deal with it.
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04/29/2008 02:33:23 AM · #81 |
Great timing on the "apology". Reap the whirlwind of publicity, then apologize and go back to being wholesome miley. Geeesh. Don't think for a second that this whole sensation wasn't masterminded by her people.
Two thumbs up for what Alice said. And the same goes for boys/sports figures as well. |
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04/29/2008 10:49:47 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Holy crap, I agree with Gordon! At 15 or around that age, role models should be your parents... |
I think everybody responds to this with a resounding "DUH!" It's so obvious to me that I assumed everybody understood the post as being in addition to family and close friends. However, tween girls are not likely to plaster posters of uncle Harold on their wall.
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04/29/2008 12:01:55 PM · #83 |
Parents are the people you're avoiding at 15 so parents as role models?! I don't even remember what my parents were saying to me at that time.. and I was one of the 'good' kids.
It's all nice and okay to start experimenting and maturing at this age but practically all the girls in my school regret something or the other they did when they were fifteen, especially the stuff they did under pressure. Guys were like this thing they needed to secretly worship. They dressed, ate, talked, walked, thought because of other people. How sad is that. I can't imagine spending the rest of your life trying to sell yourself [ without even being a celebrity], acting to please others to feel good about yourself.
Yes, 15 year olds may be ready for this step but the bar keeps getting lower and lower each year. How many 14 year olds did I see in the news trying to flush their babies down the toilet. That's the maturity level we're dealing with here.. Next year it'll be one or the other 12 year old we'll be discussing.
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04/29/2008 12:05:41 PM · #84 |
Perhaps this was intended to be a statement about taking the glitz and glam out of a character that has been "created". Putting the human back into someone that is essentially a performing puppet.
Perhaps if she is wearing no makeup and no hairspray and literally in her birthday suit, the photos might be truly meaningful. But if there was any form intimidation or pursuasion in this photo shoot, that would be a bad thing for sure.
Just a thought. I don't really know anything about Hanna Montana other than the cheesy fake name and products. |
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04/29/2008 12:13:07 PM · #85 |
girls these days wear less and less everytime they go out.
I know for myself that I would never allow Rose to be photographed like that at that age. I expect most mothers would feel the same. Would you have that picture on the wall of your home for everyone to see, I know I would not. But then again, some people will say that kids wear less when they go to the beach. And I agree.
I think that everyone was in the wrong that day. The photographer should have known better, and she probably did and still went ahead and did it for publicity.
The parents should never have left the set and left her there with minders.
When they saw the picture on set, they should have said something then, not later when it is published.
I still think that it is a fantastic shot with amazing lighting etc. But cringe at the girls age, which makes the shot not good. IMO.
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04/29/2008 12:18:33 PM · #86 |
Here is an article in Time about it:
Doing Damage control
One thing to point out is that this is Annie Leibovitz. If she wanted to shoot Mother Teresa in a sheet she probably could. Its all about "art" and that's what the Cyrus family thought.
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04/29/2008 12:27:23 PM · #87 |
And why not?
He/She who is not naked cast the first stone.
Originally posted by Citadel:
One thing to point out is that this is Annie Leibovitz. If she wanted to shoot Mother Teresa in a sheet she probably could. Its all about "art" and that's what the Cyrus family thought. |
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04/29/2008 12:27:37 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
One thing to point out is that this is Annie Leibovitz. If she wanted to shoot Mother Teresa in a sheet she probably could. |
I'm not sure they'd let her dig her up for that shoot. Just a hunch. |
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04/29/2008 12:33:03 PM · #89 |
This thread has me very intrigued. I'd be curious as to the general thoughts on this person.....girl or woman, sexy or cute.
[thumb]674208[/thumb]
And this one.....
[thumb]602552[/thumb]
I think a lot of it is in the perception of the viewer.
I'd be interested as to the various perceptions of the readers.
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04/29/2008 12:44:40 PM · #90 |
Yes- and with the assumption that very bad people will look at the images, people are scared and critical - as always.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I think a lot of it is in the perception of the viewer.
I'd be interested as to the various perceptions of the readers. |
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04/29/2008 01:01:20 PM · #91 |
Great question. So we can let them decide.
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Would you have that picture on the wall of your home for everyone to see, I know I would not. |
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04/29/2008 01:07:09 PM · #92 |
To me, this whole discussion just strikes me as typical American puritanism. I see really nothing sexual in her pose or in the picture. It´s a wonderful picture of a pretty young girl and I am in no way sexually arroussed by it.
The thing with making such a big issue out of sex, is that it stands in the way of enjoying esthetics. A body, male or female, can hold beauty in its own right, especially if photographed right. This beauty is concealed when nudity is always associated with sexuality.
So stop being so uptight about sex in general and nudity in particular and just enjoy a pretty picture when you see one.
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04/29/2008 01:09:35 PM · #93 |
What a storm in a teacup this whole sorry affair is. I have never witnessed such a cunning stunt as this global PR campaign – based around nothing in particular. The kids are trying to be adults early? So what? Nothing new.
Pic is well lit too but nothing special. In my view the girl is quite repelling - all ribby and anaemic. No sign of sexuality in the shot either as she's not old or experienced enough to exude it.
In the link at the beginning of this thread, it's not surprising to note that their poll box includes only these options:
[ ] Great! She looks fab!
[ ] It's a bit dodgy for a 15 year old but they're tasteful/ok
[ ] It's worrying if she felt pressured into them...
[ ] They're inappropriate and wrong
--
they missed off:
[ ] Don't care a jot
[ ] She's actually nothing special anyway
[ ] She's way too skinny
Apparently she's embarassed about them -though not about the massive publicity thrusting her into the limelight.
I'm off to write a stinking letter about the ultra-violence in Grand Theft Auto instead...
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04/29/2008 01:39:16 PM · #94 |
i'm most interested in what went on between cyrus and liebovitz during the shoot. that relationship, between model and photographer, is always fascinating.
clearly the girl is accustomed to having her pictures taken, she comfortable with that environment. the chance to shoot with someone of liebovitz's caliber must certainly have been exciting. even with parents and handlers and a studio full of assistants she must have felt like this was a chance to stretch herself in a new direction. even if it wasn't initially overt.
she's a 15 year old girl. i don't know how many of you remember BEING a 15 year old girl, but it's an amazingly frustrating and awesome period of life. now imagine being a 15 year old girl with millions of dollars and the chance to have some world-class pictures of yourself (your REAL self, not the manufactured stuff) to finally show the world that you are just something a little more than what people expect.
i put myself in her place and it's EASY to understand how this shot came about. it's not a sinister plot. it's not the machinations of a lascivious lesbian photographer or an equally lecherous media empire.
it's FUN to have your picture taken! i'm thinking. . .i'm 15. i'm never going to look this good again, and annie liebovitz is taking my picture. that's EVERY 15 year old's dream. liebovitz is good, but she's not a svengali for crying out loud. the two of them entered into the model/photographer relationship together with open eyes.
the problem is that there were probably DOZENS of other shots with her clothes on that Vanity Fair could have chosen. but this is the one that sells.
out of something pure and fun that happens between models and photographers every day comes this maelstrom of miscommunication, misdirection, and manipulation.
it's a shame. but, i bet the girl secretly LOVES the picture.
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04/29/2008 01:39:55 PM · #95 |
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04/29/2008 01:47:01 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
I'm off to write a stinking letter about the ultra-violence in Grand Theft Auto instead... |
My 13 year old daughter is, and has bneen for a couple years, quite good at GTA III, Vice City.
She's also aware that there's too much sex and sexuality in her middle school.
She is however, being brought up in an enlightened, happy, comfortable household where she doesn't lack for answers to questions, or for support to good choices she's making on her own.
It's scary as Hell being a parent of a teen in today's world, but we have been really blessed with a terrific kid.
Oddly, she doesn't see people like Miley Cyrus as role models any more than she believes that the Grand Theft Auto Play Station games are real.
Go figure!
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04/29/2008 02:11:07 PM · #97 |
I dont see anything sexual or wrong with that photo, it looks like a beautiful painting.
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04/29/2008 02:28:39 PM · #98 |
Good to hear. But I think the point is that violence is so entirely accepted and entrenched in our everyday imagery while the most natural of all things (nudity) is often extremely taboo and polarizing.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Oddly, she doesn't see people like Miley Cyrus as role models any more than she believes that the Grand Theft Auto Play Station games are real.
Go figure! |
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04/29/2008 02:44:48 PM · #99 |
I agree this seems like more American puritanism, however, I'm not a parent. On the other hand, it's absurd to think that good parenting can counterract all outside or media influences.
You want to weep for the future of our society? Watch those grotesque reality shows about finding love.
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04/29/2008 02:57:48 PM · #100 |
Now THAT is a GREAT point. This photo shoot has nothing on that garbage when it comes to messing the minds of young people.
Originally posted by citymars:
You want to weep for the future of our society? Watch those grotesque reality shows about finding love. |
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