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04/28/2008 05:18:51 PM · #1
In one way, the whole Miley (Hannah Montana) spread in Vanity Fair is a tempest-in-a-teapot. But on the other hand, I wonder about the decisions that went into the photoshoot. Certainly Annie Liebovitz is a photographer par excellence, but I question her choice of shooting a 15-year-old in a sheet. Why must we assume that as our young girls mature they naturally be seen (and sold) as sexual objects? Liebovitz did not shoot the Queen of England wrapped in a sheet. Why? It was not appropriate for her station. Likewise, I do not think it is appropriate (or at the least, helpful to Miley) to do this to a 15-year-old. The photo, while not racy by any stretch of the imagination, does offer the subtext of Miley Davis, nubile young girl. It is merely the first step in her transformation. Our society has an insatiable desire to chew up and spit out young, beautiful girls. I'm afraid this the start for our little Hannah. As an exclamation point to the argument I only need to present Exhibit A, otherwise known as Britney Spears. Observe early album covers and later ones...

' . substr('//bp3.blogger.com/_js72CEoopM0/RuvKLEz6L5I/AAAAAAAAACk/N5AUAgPDeNc/s320/Britney+Spears', strrpos('//bp3.blogger.com/_js72CEoopM0/RuvKLEz6L5I/AAAAAAAAACk/N5AUAgPDeNc/s320/Britney+Spears', '/') + 1) . ' ' . substr('//img.mp3fiesta.com/covers/23/2321/art_2321_big.jpg', strrpos('//img.mp3fiesta.com/covers/23/2321/art_2321_big.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Certainly Britney is a classic example of what our society can do to women. We want nothing to do with them until they are willing to "put out" a bit, then once they do that and we are satisfied they are considered damaged goods and it's on to the next young thing. Certainly this has not been positive for Britney's life.

Don't know why I had to write about this. Just my little op-ed piece for the day.

The Liebovitz picture in question:
Miley Davis by Annie Liebovitz
04/28/2008 05:25:51 PM · #2
Ah. The Scandale du jour arrives.

Message edited by author 2008-04-28 17:26:05.
04/28/2008 05:26:03 PM · #3
Daddys little cash cow. He could've said no.
04/28/2008 05:26:32 PM · #4
And who is this girl? Never heard of her, so whatever she does..

Usually under 18 parents are at the set. They saw what happened. I assume Miley is old enough to understand what happens in the U S of A when you take photos like these.

I think nothing is wrong with the photo. i kinda like it actually. Does the fact that i don't live in USA matter? I think it does.

Does this make sense?
04/28/2008 05:28:24 PM · #5
Doc, wasnt the parents present at the shoot? didnt they agree to release these shots? I believe a 15 year old is not old enough to sign a release. Her parents must have signed them. And if they did, they must agreed on the shots.

I am not saying that photographing a 15 year old half naked is right or wrong, but her parents must have signed that release in order for it to be a part of a magazine.

Message edited by author 2008-04-28 17:29:16.
04/28/2008 05:28:37 PM · #6
I'm not trying to say that photo is over the edge. I'm more railing against the inevitable process that seems to doom young women. To prove the point, can anybody name five 18-25 year old female role models who are not known for their beauty?
04/28/2008 05:31:14 PM · #7
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

Doc, wasnt the parents present at the shoot? didnt they agree to release these shots? I believe a 15 year old is not old enough to sign a release. Her parents must have signed them. And if they did, they must agreed on the shots.

I am not saying that photographing a 15 year old half naked is right, but her parents must have signed that release in order for it to be a part of a magazine.


No, I agree. In fact, while there's lots of "we didn't know it was going to be like this" complaining, her parents were there and Vanity Fair, in an attempt to keep from being the scapegoat, released video of the shoot showing her parents there the whole time. I think it's a calculated first volley. Her "handlers" as they are called, are in a tough spot. No teen star can survive without sexualizing their message, but her current fans, eight-year-old-girls, have parents who do not approve of such things. They are trying to walk a line here. They want a bit of provocation, but then they pull back and say, "we're sorry" so as not to offend the current constituency.

That's how I see it anyway.

Message edited by author 2008-04-28 17:32:03.
04/28/2008 05:34:26 PM · #8
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

Doc, wasnt the parents present at the shoot? didnt they agree to release these shots? I believe a 15 year old is not old enough to sign a release. Her parents must have signed them. And if they did, they must agreed on the shots.

I am not saying that photographing a 15 year old half naked is right, but her parents must have signed that release in order for it to be a part of a magazine.


No, I agree. In fact, while there's lots of "we didn't know it was going to be like this" complaining, her parents were there and Vanity Fair, in an attempt to keep from being the scapegoat, released video of the shoot showing her parents there the whole time. I think it's a calculated first volley. Her "handlers" as they are called, are in a tough spot. No teen star can survive without sexualizing their message, but her current fans, eight-year-old-girls, have parents who do not approve of such things. They are trying to walk a line here. They want a bit of provocation, but then they pull back and say, "we're sorry" so as not to offend the current constituency.

That's how I see it anyway.


I see where youre going with this. Yeah I agree with you. It is unfortunate that they cant keep a role model to such young girls without some sort of sexual context. I would say its time to find another role model. :(
04/28/2008 05:36:48 PM · #9
I think that it is a lovely shot, but not appropriate for a 15 year old.

Supposidly her parents left half way through the shoot and she was left with minders. It was digital and they got to see the shot on set. They could have said no then.

6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other I think

04/28/2008 05:41:19 PM · #10
Originally posted by biteme:

And who is this girl? Never heard of her, so whatever she does..

I think nothing is wrong with the photo. i kinda like it actually. Does the fact that i don't live in USA matter? I think it does.

Does this make sense?


ditto all of this! i think the shot is excellent and artistic and quite appropriate for a beautiful 15 year old girl, and i think it's rather "cute" than sexy. i won't consider it as a "nude" or "erotic" photograph at all.
then again maybe it does matter we're european, but who knows...:D
04/28/2008 05:43:10 PM · #11
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm not trying to say that photo is over the edge. I'm more railing against the inevitable process that seems to doom young women. To prove the point, can anybody name five 18-25 year old female role models who are not known for their beauty?


Ugly Betty? Oh wait she may be under 18
04/28/2008 05:44:20 PM · #12
Originally posted by AndyMac24:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm not trying to say that photo is over the edge. I'm more railing against the inevitable process that seems to doom young women. To prove the point, can anybody name five 18-25 year old female role models who are not known for their beauty?


Ugly Betty? Oh wait she may be under 18

now now he did say name 5

I was thinking, Leslie Sobiesky. now I have ugly betty gal.
Thats two. Anyone else have another 3?
04/28/2008 05:44:29 PM · #13
Originally posted by Mephisto:

Originally posted by biteme:

And who is this girl? Never heard of her, so whatever she does..

I think nothing is wrong with the photo. i kinda like it actually. Does the fact that i don't live in USA matter? I think it does.

Does this make sense?


ditto all of this! i think the shot is excellent and artistic and quite appropriate for a beautiful 15 year old girl, and i think it's rather "cute" than sexy. i won't consider it as a "nude" or "erotic" photograph at all.
then again maybe it does matter we're european, but who knows...:D


I think it absolutely does!
04/28/2008 05:46:35 PM · #14
Originally posted by biteme:

Originally posted by Mephisto:

Originally posted by biteme:

And who is this girl? Never heard of her, so whatever she does..

I think nothing is wrong with the photo. i kinda like it actually. Does the fact that i don't live in USA matter? I think it does.

Does this make sense?


ditto all of this! i think the shot is excellent and artistic and quite appropriate for a beautiful 15 year old girl, and i think it's rather "cute" than sexy. i won't consider it as a "nude" or "erotic" photograph at all.
then again maybe it does matter we're european, but who knows...:D


I think it absolutely does!


Well its not just the US that is like this. Latin America is also very conservative about this sorta thing.
04/28/2008 05:47:15 PM · #15
Kelly Osbourne... DEFINITELY not known for her beauty.

Joan of Arc... she's dead but she kicks ass.

Lisa Simpson... she's 8, so outside your requirements.

I'm stretching it pretty thin.

04/28/2008 05:48:52 PM · #16
I think it's disappointing.

I am the Mama of an 8 year old daughter.

I think the image is beautiful - but for now, for this model, unnecessarily 'suggestive'.

We all know that this isn't intended to suggest she's innocent - it's a come hither pose that's tied to sexuality.

Is it cute? Sure - but is it necessary? Nope!

She's gonna grow up - couldn't they wait a few years to drag her into people's consciousness as a 'sexual' being?

I really like Annie Liebovitz work - she is very respectful often.

I like what the Doc said. "Liebovitz did not shoot the Queen of England wrapped in a sheet. Why? It was not appropriate for her station".

As a Mama & a Woman - I don't wish the world to hurry up teenage girls (or younger - which make up the majority of her fan base)

I grew up too fast - don't wish the same for mine and others - there is TIME for everything - lets not rush them.
04/28/2008 05:52:40 PM · #17
Maria Sharapova, Annika Sorenstam, Michelle Wie, Natalie Portman.

Okay, I ran out at 4 after a few seconds thought. Most 18-25 year olds haven't done much
in the way of anything interesting to get them on the world stage.

Given that 'famous' in this country appears to mean trashy and stupid, I'm not too surprised.
Though if you want to call Britney Spears a 'role model' then I think your definitions are a bit messed up.

Leibovitz also didn't shoot the Queen on a horse in her house.
Leibovitz would have shot the Queen in that sort of pose if she could have gotten away with it.
Or in a bath of milk, or anything else she could have gotten shock value out of. The over burning and over processing
on the Queen's shots were tacky enough at the time.

ETA - here's another, Kory Arvizu-Johnson

Though really, I'm not sure what the relevance of the 18-25 cap would be. I would have thought people like Condoleezza Rice or Hilary Clinton could be considered pretty strong female role models, regardless of age. More than anything else, I think the concept that random pop stars should be considered role models indicates a more immediate issue.

Message edited by author 2008-04-28 17:58:35.
04/28/2008 05:58:11 PM · #18
i think about this way, and am not saying one way or the other if it's appropriate or not.

she may be a role model for eight year olds, now ( i don't know who she is ), but she isn't eight years old. she's 15 going on 16 and likely looking at her role models who are most likely also not eight years old, but more like 18 or 20. i'm sure she and her 'handlers' understand that she won't be a role model for 8 yr olds forever, and might be trying to take steps to bring her to the next level.

not everyone choses to be a sex symbol, a super model, or rock/pop star you know.

again i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but outside of a miracle i doubt it's gonna change.


04/28/2008 06:01:14 PM · #19
eh - nvrmnd.



Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:02:16.
04/28/2008 06:01:41 PM · #20
Maria Sharapova & Natalie Portman... You are kidding right..?
04/28/2008 06:02:43 PM · #21
I actually like the Liebovitz photo of Miley and don't think it has any kind of a sexual connotation. Her breasts aren't thrust out, she doesn't have a come hither look on her face, one of her fingers isn't hanging out of her mouth in some silly fashion, etc. To me she simply looks young, fresh and unencumbered by the opinions of so many 'fans'.

There are so many truly terrible things happening in this world today and I wish the photojournalism trying to cover those issue would get one tenth of the attention that this story will get.
04/28/2008 06:02:46 PM · #22
Originally posted by iamwoman:


I think the image is beautiful - but for now, for this model, unnecessarily 'suggestive'.

We all know that this isn't intended to suggest she's innocent - it's a come hither pose that's tied to sexuality.

Is it cute? Sure - but is it necessary? Nope!

She's gonna grow up - couldn't they wait a few years to drag her into people's consciousness as a 'sexual' being?


i think the picture is no more suggestive than other pictures of her in low-cut dress.
her pose suggests, that she's hiding her body, rather than revealing her body. i can't see anything below her hips, only her "naked" back side. she's sitting on the floor, the angle was chosen from above, not from a point of view below her head, which imo also adds to the "innocent" feel of the picture.

you know as a 15 years old girl she's long come into stage of having sexual thoughts, feelings and all that stuff so why not expressing that with sensual, yet slightly dreamy-"sexy" photograph?

now where was the discussion about that french photographer, that took photos of naked young girls at the beach...?

edit for typo

Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:04:25.
04/28/2008 06:04:18 PM · #23
Originally posted by rob_smith:

Maria Sharapova & Natalie Portman... You are kidding right..?


Well, how do you want to define role model ? I think this isn't too bad. How were you doing at 25 ?

Maria Sharapova a Russian professional tennis player who is a former World No. 1. As of April 21, 2008, she is the third-ranked female player in the world and the top ranked Russian female player. At the end of 2006, she was the world's highest-paid female athlete. Sharapova has won three Grand Slam singles titles. In 2004, she beat Serena Williams to take the Wimbledon title at the age of 17. Two years later, she defeated Justine Henin in the final of the 2006 U.S. Open. At the 2008 Australian Open, she beat Ana Ivanović in the final. Sharapova has been ranked in the top 10 since winning Wimbledon, the longest of any current female tennis player.


or

Natalie Portman is an Academy Award-nominated and Golden Globe-winning Israeli-American actress. Portman began her career in the early 1990s, turning down the opportunity to become a child model in favor of acting.
[...]
Portman was a straight-A student. "I'd rather be smart than be a movie star," she told an interviewer. Although she says her family was not religious, she attended a Jewish elementary school, the Solomon Schechter Day School of Glen Cove, New York. She graduated from a public high school, Syosset High School. Portman reportedly skipped the premiere of Star Wars: Episode I so she could study for her high school final exams.

In June 2003, Portman graduated from Harvard University with a bachelor's degree in psychology, and pursued graduate studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in the spring of 2004. At Harvard, Portman was Alan Dershowitz's research assistant (he thanks her in The Case for Israel). She was also a research assistant in a psychology lab, and in March 2006, appeared as a guest lecturer at a Columbia University course in terrorism and counterterrorism, where she spoke about her film V for Vendetta. In addition to being bilingual in Hebrew and English, Portman has studied French, Japanese, German and Arabic.


Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:06:41.
04/28/2008 06:07:16 PM · #24
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by rob_smith:

Maria Sharapova & Natalie Portman... You are kidding right..?


Well, how do you want to define role model ? I think this isn't too bad. How were you doing at 25 ?

Maria Sharapova a Russian professional tennis player who is a former World No. 1. As of April 21, 2008, she is the third-ranked female player in the world and the top ranked Russian female player. At the end of 2006, she was the world's highest-paid female athlete. Sharapova has won three Grand Slam singles titles. In 2004, she beat Serena Williams to take the Wimbledon title at the age of 17. Two years later, she defeated Justine Henin in the final of the 2006 U.S. Open. At the 2008 Australian Open, she beat Ana Ivanoviæ in the final. Sharapova has been ranked in the top 10 since winning Wimbledon, the longest of any current female tennis player.


or

Natalie Portman is an Academy Award-nominated and Golden Globe-winning Israeli-American actress. Portman began her career in the early 1990s, turning down the opportunity to become a child model in favor of acting.
[...]
Portman was a straight-A student. "I'd rather be smart than be a movie star,"[8] she told an interviewer. Although she says her family was not religious, she attended a Jewish elementary school, the Solomon Schechter Day School of Glen Cove, New York. She graduated from a public high school, Syosset High School. Portman reportedly skipped the premiere of Star Wars: Episode I so she could study for her high school final exams.

In June 2003, Portman graduated from Harvard University with a bachelor's degree in psychology, and pursued graduate studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in the spring of 2004. At Harvard, Portman was Alan Dershowitz's research assistant (he thanks her in The Case for Israel). She was also a research assistant in a psychology lab, and in March 2006, appeared as a guest lecturer at a Columbia University course in terrorism and counterterrorism, where she spoke about her film V for Vendetta. In addition to being bilingual in Hebrew and English, Portman has studied French, Japanese, German and Arabic.


Yeah, and I was also saying that both are known for their beauty. It may not be what their careers are but doesn't mean that it isn't what helps them sell?
04/28/2008 06:10:58 PM · #25
aren't role models sort of dictated by the things you're interested in persuing?

so if you're interested in a modeling or acting career as a female, in all liklihood your role models would fit that description.

but what if you were interested in politics, or nascar, or painting ?

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

To prove the point, can anybody name five 18-25 year old female role models who are not known for their beauty?


Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:12:42.
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