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04/11/2008 01:13:22 PM · #51 |
Interesting thread, I always like hearing other peoples view on the world.
My two cents,
I am a Christian, but I don't believe in faith without reason. God is extremely logical, and he often expresses himself and shows himself in ways that we can understand. The idea of faith now (in churches as well as just the general understanding of the word) is kind of a blind jump. "Well, I hope there's something solid to land on." This, IMO is very wrong, and not at all God's idea of faith. When God says to do something, there is a logical reason behind it, and he doesn't expect us to just do it without such backing. Yeah, he's not going to tell us what's going to happen every second of the day, but he has displayed himself in our world enough that we can look back and say, "Ok, maybe he does know what he's doing." Faith is a trust system to me, and he hasn't failed me yet.
Like I said above, interesting post, I look forward to reading more. :D
_Nathanael |
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04/11/2008 01:53:27 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by DistantColours:
I'm not superstitious. |
"I'm not superstitious...maybe just a little stitious." -Micheal Scott, The Office |
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04/11/2008 01:56:59 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
Originally posted by DistantColours:
I'm not superstitious. |
"I'm not superstitious...maybe just a little stitious." -Micheal Scott, The Office |
Somebody once asked Niels Bohr why he had a horseshoe hanging above the front door of his house.
"Surely you, a world famous physicist, can't really believe that hanging a horseshoe above your door brings you luck?".
"Of course not," Bohr replied, "but I have been reliably informed that it will bring me luck whether I believe in it or not."
--Neils Bohr |
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04/11/2008 02:04:59 PM · #54 |
I'm nihilistic - or is it just ignorance?
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04/11/2008 02:19:48 PM · #55 |
There may be higher power of some sort, but my pet peeve is with the small mindedness of those that believe in 'god'. Not all, but many. You see them on the news - Thank the lord, we weren't killed in the fire. He was really looking out for us! - if he was, then why they hell did you house burn down? They preach one thing and live another - love thy neighbor, etc but then if you don't believe in MY god, you won't go to heaven, and I should kill you when I get a chance. Organized religion is all BS.
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04/11/2008 02:19:53 PM · #56 |
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04/11/2008 02:20:11 PM · #57 |
Why? Are we getting together for kitten bar-b-que or something? 'Cause, if we are, I prefer a good spicy sauce. (For the humor impaired, the preceeding is a joke pointing out how we atheists have been maligned in the past. It's unfortunate that I feel the need to point that out.)
I have never, and will never, join in a kittin bar-b-que.
Puppies, however ... |
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04/11/2008 02:22:00 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Ignorance is bliss. :-) |
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise." - Thomas Gray |
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04/11/2008 02:27:39 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by keibo84:
You can consider me agnostic or lover of all religions. I believe all religions preach good and it is us, the humans, that misinterpret the messages either by ill will or by close mindedness. I don't believe in tags (just like i don't walk around telling people i'm a photographer), and I don't believe in limiting myself to the knowledge of one particular religion. I do my research and assimilate what i like or what I consider worthy of being a part of myself. Interpret any reading with love and appreciation of other forms of life and you'll see that there are not religions that are better than others and very very deep down, all religions preach the same thing - RESPECT and FORGIVE. The way they phrase or approach respect is different, but in the end I believe that there is no religion out there that truly preaches hate and intolerance, it is us that misinterpret the messages.
Respect all forms of life, no matter what they are or where they come from.
I also believe there are things we don't understand and we might never be able to understand, but that is why nature is wiser than us. |
Every religion is the invention of man. New religions replace old ones. Why? Some people convert from one to the other...yet most all preach that 'non believers' will not attain 'heaven'. It's interesting that most are very similar in what they preach (the basic tenets) -one god, heaven, etc. Christ comes along...some convert, some do not. who goes to heaven? Christ was a jew, or what was he? One can say that the mormons or other newer religions are not following gods words, or perhaps those that don't follow Smith's revelations are the lost ones. hard to say. Maybe the mayans had it right, or the romans or eqyptians...
The religion's I've run across are creations of man, and the 'churches' are run by men with the goal of increasing their wealth, power and control (personally or of their church). Lots of rationalizations are given for this, but it's what they do.
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04/11/2008 02:58:44 PM · #60 |
Atheist here, or more specifically a metaphysical naturalist (see Wiki article), meaning that I believe:
1. The universe has either always existed or had a purely natural origin, being neither created nor designed.
2. Life is an unplanned product of blind natural processes.
3. Evolution is a well-established scientific explanation for the rise and diversity of life on earth, which developed slowly and imperfectly over an extremely long period of time.
4. Human beings have no independent soul or spirit, but only a material brain, which operates to produce a conscious mind.
5. Reason is the refinement and improvement of naturally evolved faculties, through discovering, then learning, and then employing methods and procedures that are found to increase the frequency with which we arrive at true conclusions and correct information about ourselves and the world.
6. Humans evolved as social animals, which is the only reason we have developed culture and civilization, and now in fact depend on them.
7. There is nothing of any greater value than human happiness. However, there are tangible differences between happiness and mere pleasure, and there are also complex realities involved in pursuing happiness, most notably those created by the complexities and limitations of natural human psychology and the complexities and limitations of living within a social system. When all these distinctions and complexities are understood, a system of behavioral or attitudinal principles can be deduced, which is what naturalists define as morality.
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04/11/2008 03:29:33 PM · #61 |
| I brained washed my kids for many years to believe in the tooth fairy and father christmas but through education and common sense the little gits sussed me out ;-) |
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04/11/2008 04:39:55 PM · #62 |
Metaphysical naturalist here.
People believe what they want to believe, and I'm no different.
Most people want to believe in the supernatural, (gods, spirits, ghosts, demons, angels...).
I, on the other hand, want to believe only in the natural, and it just so happens that all credible evidence supports my position.
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04/11/2008 04:51:35 PM · #63 |
I believe in The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ... I've been touched by his noodly appendage
Message edited by author 2008-04-11 16:51:53. |
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04/11/2008 05:59:02 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by jtf6agent:
Hey guys I don't mean to crash your party but 2.5 billion strong... We must know something. |
Logical fallacy time: Argumentum ad populum - ("appeal to belief", "appeal to the majority", "appeal to the people"): where a proposition is claimed to be true solely because many people believe it to be true.
I should point out that a few hundered years ago you could have used such an argument to say that the Earth must be flat.
---
I was a fundamentalist Christian until about 18 years ago. Many things I learned unweaved my religious indoctrination. Perhaps the most powerful to me at the time was learning about people of other cultures, putting myself in their shoes and realizing that I would probably be a Muslim if I had grown up in Saudi Arabia, I would likely be a Hindu if I had grown up in India, and I would have taken whatever primitive superstitious beliefs my parents taught me if I had been born in a tribe isolated from western civilization. It became unconscionable for me to continue believing in a spiritual paradigm that involved eternal torment for people based essentially on which place and time they were born into. I have many other reasons and better arguments for disbelief, but that was the first compelling thought that made me question religious claims.
Thanks for the thread. I actually have faith in the character of most DPCers (and artist groups in general regardless of religion) to be more tolerant and civil than most internet communities, otherwise I wouldn't bother adding my two cents worth here. |
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04/11/2008 06:24:20 PM · #65 |
Spend two minutes reading the "other" thread and you'd think that the self congratulatory saccharine laced posts would turn anyone sane. Let off the leash, the attitudes in that thread do far more for atheism than rational argument...
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04/11/2008 06:26:26 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Spend two minutes reading the "other" thread and you'd think that the self congratulatory saccharine laced posts would turn anyone sane. Let off the leash, the attitudes in that thread do far more for atheism than rational argument... |
Um, hello? You aren't posting in a vaccum here.
All threads on DPC are for everyone to read and participate in. Let's remember that, please. |
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04/11/2008 06:40:37 PM · #67 |
Hear the one about the dyslexic agnostic? He wonders if there really is a dog.
;-) |
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04/11/2008 06:57:35 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by Matthew:
Spend two minutes reading the "other" thread and you'd think that the self congratulatory saccharine laced posts would turn anyone sane. Let off the leash, the attitudes in that thread do far more for atheism than rational argument... |
Um, hello? You aren't posting in a vaccum here.
All threads on DPC are for everyone to read and participate in. Let's remember that, please. |
I'm not being confrontational to any specific individual - just pointing out how sickeningly self congratulatory that thread is.
I am not actively supporting discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation, which would undoubtedly include a large number of DPC members, for example.
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04/11/2008 07:21:51 PM · #69 |
Let's try not to obfuscate the real issue, which is that your comment was inflammatory and designed to provoke.
That it was made in a separate thread does not make it ok. |
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04/11/2008 07:36:51 PM · #70 |
This is the first internet forum I've been involved in which has had a 'general' section for the discussion of almost anything, and I'm amazed by the fact that it's always the threads surrounding religion that generate the strongest feelings.
What happened to respecting other people's beliefs? Militant atheism, where atheists (who evidently consider themselves blessed with all knowledge) find it necessary to belittle beliefs that believers hold dear, seems to me (as an Atheist) every bit as objectionable as the diehard religious types who feel free to discriminate against sectors of society because of sometimes questionable passages in whatever holy book they subscribe to (and here I'm not referring to the infamous 'other thread'). |
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04/12/2008 07:48:01 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by jtf6agent:
Hey guys I don't mean to crash your party but 2.5 billion strong... We must know something. Now don't trash me I'm just asking? I was an atheist for most of my life and found myself in a very bad position and what happened to me can only be described by divine intervention. I'm not here to save souls it's not my job but take another look? |
It's people like yourself that make me post in these threads.
I'm sorry for your bad time but please stop treating others as if they were stupid lost people walking around not knowing why. Instead of proselytizing that your decision was the right one, why not be more specific and tell us what your devine intervention was so we can judge by ourselves?
Your comment that 2.5 billion must know something is flawed. I can show you a tribe of African pigmys who think a tree is their god and they've been believing that for thousands of years. Do you believe that their tree is their god? What if you were born into the tribe and had no information about the outside world? You would be praying to the tree god, without a doubt.
What gets me is the short sightedness of many religionists who claim their religion is the only way. The feeling of belonging is much greater than the need to understand and that's why there are 2.5 billion of you. I don't need to belong to a sect, cult, religion, or any other organized group that preaches one mindedness. I am me and I'm happy to not be under the spell of religion, I am a better person because of it. |
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04/12/2008 12:39:27 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by figaro:
What happened to respecting other people's beliefs? Militant atheism, where atheists (who evidently consider themselves blessed with all knowledge) find it necessary to belittle beliefs that believers hold dear, seems to me (as an Atheist) every bit as objectionable as the diehard religious types who feel free to discriminate against sectors of society because of sometimes questionable passages in whatever holy book they subscribe to (and here I'm not referring to the infamous 'other thread'). |
Well said. I agree completely. Somewhere along the line a good deal of Christians forgot about that little passage that says "Who are you to judge another's servant? By his own master will he stand or fall[.]" And (as you have pointed out) atheism has become (to many) a religion. |
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04/12/2008 02:40:40 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by L2:
Let's try not to obfuscate the real issue, which is that your comment was inflammatory and designed to provoke.
That it was made in a separate thread does not make it ok. |
Well said! And it's not the first time, either.
Message edited by author 2008-04-12 14:42:44. |
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04/12/2008 06:04:36 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by L2:
Let's try not to obfuscate the real issue, which is that your comment was inflammatory and designed to provoke.
That it was made in a separate thread does not make it ok. |
Let's settle for cultural divide - I didn't really mean to offend as much as to point out an irony. I do find the other thread offensive, but guess that in N America it seems a little more normal and so others don't share my reaction.
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04/12/2008 08:15:47 PM · #75 |
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