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06/10/2002 01:50:44 PM · #1
I have a suggestion for everyone who posts photographs to these challenges... When you have your photograph ready to submit, bounce it off of some third party viewer before you post. Let them look at your photo BEFORE you tell them what it is for. After they have seen your photo, ask this person if they think it fits into a subject category of 'on the road' or whatever the challenge topic may be.

I am going to stop sugar coating my comments on challenge submissions where *I* don't think the challenge has been met. There are enough 'non-meeters' and borderlines in this challenge that I had to say something about it... thanks! I'm gonna be ok now :)
06/10/2002 01:55:10 PM · #2
I may regret saying this because I suspect I could be one of those borderline / not meeting cases this week, but - go for it! I think we've been overlooking adherence to challenge too much (I'm as guilty as the next person), especially for photos that are (outside of the challenge) really good photos.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I have a suggestion for everyone who posts photographs to these challenges... When you have your photograph ready to submit, bounce it off of some third party viewer before you post. Let them look at your photo BEFORE you tell them what it is for. After they have seen your photo, ask this person if they think it fits into a subject category of 'on the road' or whatever the challenge topic may be.

I am going to stop sugar coating my comments on challenge submissions where *I* don't think the challenge has been met. There are enough 'non-meeters' and borderlines in this challenge that I had to say something about it... thanks! I'm gonna be ok now :)



06/10/2002 01:59:43 PM · #3
There are some great photos here for sure but there are several that I can't connect to the challenge topic... Everyone should remember that some of us dum kuntry folk don't no nuttin bout the city ways and the artsy-fartsy neuvo dramatic drug induced abstractions :))
06/10/2002 02:02:15 PM · #4
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Everyone should remember that some of us dum kuntry folk don't no nuttin bout the city ways and the artsy-fartsy neuvo dramatic drug induced abstractions :))


Please, to be fair to everyone, please correct your gamma and take a hit of LSD before coming to a final conclusion on any of the photos.


06/10/2002 02:04:12 PM · #5
Where i's frum, LSD = Livermush Spam Dessert :)
06/10/2002 02:33:23 PM · #6
My concern is that "creativity" sort of by definition means someone comes up with an interpretation that others don't (yet) "get." I might give a photo with a more obscure and tenuous connection to the challenge topic a higher score -- although the overall quality of the photo is still most important to me.

I don't want to grade according to "how well a photo meets the challenge" -- that would imply that the most "cliche" interpretation (well-done) should get the highest score, and I haven't really heard that as being desired by many folks here.

I've been trying to "pre-screen" my photos before submitting -- especially since when I'm trying to decide between two pictures, I always seem to submit the wrong one! Unfortunately, I can't ask any of the most useful people (other DPC'ers)!
06/10/2002 02:43:45 PM · #7
I *do* score the 'cliche' shots on individual merit. No photograph in any challenge for me is 'cliche'. I score *each* photo as if it is the only one like it and as if I had never seen one like it.. i think that is only fair to the photographer...

'Cliche' for a seasoned veteran is the same thing as 'new ground' for the novice and beginning photographer...
06/10/2002 02:46:29 PM · #8
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I *do* score the ''cliche'' shots on individual merit. No photograph in any challenge for me is ''cliche''. I score *each* photo as if it is the only one like it and as if I had never seen one like it.. i think that is only fair to the photographer...

''Cliche'' for a seasoned veteran is the same thing as ''new ground'' for the novice and beginning photographer...


Here, here!
"face value!"
//dpchallenge.com/forum.asp?action=read&FORUM_POST_ID=9055




* This message has been edited by the author on 6/10/2002 2:47:16 PM.
06/10/2002 02:48:09 PM · #9
You can't fight both cliche and "stick to the topic". Therefore be as creative as you want to be and take your hits. If others don't get it it is your problem for not being able to convey what you wanted or their problem for being dolts. Be introspective and you will know the answer. It is not like the risk you take will lose you a big chunk of this weeks prize money.

Bryan
06/10/2002 02:50:46 PM · #10
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I've been trying to "pre-screen" my photos before submitting -- especially since when I'm trying to decide between two pictures, I always seem to submit the wrong one! Unfortunately, I can't ask any of the most useful people (other DPC'ers)!


General, I don't think this concept is entirely true... i think there are sounding boards all over the place... you just have to know where to look... DPC people can surely tell you what they think is wrong with a photo. Most other online posting facilities that I use don't generate much negative criticism. //www.photosig.com is a good place to get critique, but if you want CRITICAL comments, be sure to ask for them. Also, try to post photos there during prime time.. when they fall off the new submission screen, they usually fall into oblivion...



06/10/2002 03:00:03 PM · #11
Originally posted by Reuben:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]Everyone should remember that some of us dum kuntry folk don't no nuttin bout the city ways and the artsy-fartsy neuvo dramatic drug induced abstractions :))


Please, to be fair to everyone, please correct your gamma and take a hit of LSD before coming to a final conclusion on any of the photos.


[/i]

ROTFLOL!!!
06/10/2002 03:01:14 PM · #12
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I *do* score the 'cliche' shots on individual merit. No photograph in any challenge for me is 'cliche'. I score *each* photo as if it is the only one like it and as if I had never seen one like it.. i think that is only fair to the photographer...


My only concern (from your first comment in this string) is that a photo which "obviously" fits the challenge (i.e. "cliche") might get MORE consideration than one which has a more obscure (but valid) connection to the challenge topic.

There are many cases where I find the originality level high but the shot is technically flawed (e.g. most of mine), and also many where the originality level might be considered "lower" but are beautifuly shot ("cliche"). These might each end up with a score between 4-7 from me, but if we had categorized scoring they might end up with a 3/9 for one and an 8/4 for the other -- probably more useful to the photographer even if I don't have time/choose not to leave a comment.
06/10/2002 03:02:35 PM · #13
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
There are some great photos here for sure but there are several that I can't connect to the challenge topic... Everyone should remember that some of us dum kuntry folk don't no nuttin bout the city ways and the artsy-fartsy neuvo dramatic drug induced abstractions :))


Give it up Setzler...you couldn't be hick if you tried...lol. You spell too well. And hey...how come when a female uses a southern accent, everyone thinks it's "cute"? Are they just being nice to me?
06/10/2002 03:03:22 PM · #14
General, I don't disagree with your scoring method.. i score on all those same ideas.. I have given 10s to several shots that are technically poor based solely on 'subjectivity'.... nothing wrong with that... if a photo 'moves' me then it is much closer to 'very good' than to 'very bad'....
06/10/2002 03:17:40 PM · #15
I don't think it's always a matter of being cliche or not. I think I feel the same as jmsetzler -- a number of these photos aren't even in the realm of tenuously fitting the challenge but are actually square pegs being forced into a round hole. In quite a few of these cases, I think it's obvious that the photographers themselves recognize this by the titles they give their work. It's as if they're trying to justify their entry.
06/10/2002 03:24:17 PM · #16
Originally posted by Patella:
I don't think it's always a matter of being cliche or not. I think I feel the same as jmsetzler -- a number of these photos aren't even in the realm of tenuously fitting the challenge but are actually square pegs being forced into a round hole. In quite a few of these cases, I think it's obvious that the photographers themselves recognize this by the titles they give their work. It's as if they're trying to justify their entry.


I agree with this sentiment. There are a lot of photos that, it seems, only have a section of road in them to justify including them in the road challenge. That is, there was not good reason to include any evidence of traveling in the photo except to enter the challenge.

-Terry
06/10/2002 03:24:35 PM · #17
There have been some really good photos in the past challenges that I have voted lower on simply because they didn't meet the challenge. And as an "artist"...I'm torn by having to do this. But I try to judge by how well the challenge is met first of all.
Granted...different interpretations aside...you can usually tell when something is so far off the mark that it just doensn't fit. But I've also seen other comments made by other voters who think the subject matter is not meeting the challenge criteria...but it's simply that they didn't see "far enough" into the photo to realize that it is. Does that make sense?
06/10/2002 03:30:28 PM · #18
I agree with John. I find myself scoring any photo that I don't feel has met the challenge with my lowest votes. It really doesn't matter to me if there is a loose interpretation or not. I just have a hard time voting a higher score to a photo of a guy falling off a horse in an "On the Road" challenge. My photo is one of the many cliched type photos but it is in no danger of misinterpretation at least.
06/10/2002 03:30:54 PM · #19
Although I am a new submitter and have had litle formal training in photography I have learned a lot from the comments. But... I do feel that "constructive" vs "sugar coated" is more helpful. The comments that are blunt and borderline rude I just ignore. Those photographers who are using this as an educational resource should consider doing likewise.
Sammi
06/10/2002 03:39:02 PM · #20
Maybe we need a new motto: "If you can't say something mean, don't say anything at all." *grin*

OK, maybe that's going a little too far the other way....
06/10/2002 03:48:49 PM · #21
Originally posted by Patella:
Maybe we need a new motto: "If you can't say something mean, don't say anything at all." *grin*

OK, maybe that's going a little too far the other way....


Don't worry, the mean ones are still commenting. I already have one of those...

-Terry
06/10/2002 03:59:13 PM · #22
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I have a suggestion for everyone who posts photographs to these challenges... When you have your photograph ready to submit, bounce it off of some third party viewer before you post. Let them look at your photo BEFORE you tell them what it is for. After they have seen your photo, ask this person if they think it fits into a subject category of 'on the road' or whatever the challenge topic may be.

I am going to stop sugar coating my comments on challenge submissions where *I* don't think the challenge has been met. There are enough 'non-meeters' and borderlines in this challenge that I had to say something about it... thanks! I'm gonna be ok now :)


Well, I guess i'm one of those people who submitted a 'borderline' entry last week. Having said that, I can't agree that I should get a consensus before I dare to post an entry. I got to thinking about the challange, and found what I thought to be an original and offbeat interpertation. If I get 'unsugarcoated' replys, so be it. It's my first entry and I realized it will rise and fall on it's own (meager) merits. I'm looking forward to seeing the critiques. I'm sure I'll learn from them.

Also, when I vote on the entries, I consider the originality of interpertation as a large part of the score I give. Of course the physical quality of the entry (exposure, depth of field control, etc.) are important, but the high scoring entries say something in the picture, and I reward that communication in the score I give. Loosen up!!
06/10/2002 04:02:59 PM · #23
Shey,

I agree with what you say here... which photo was yours last week?
06/10/2002 04:05:02 PM · #24
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Shey,

I agree with what you say here... which photo was yours last week?


I think he meant in this week's challenge since there is no photo title underneath his name, John.
06/10/2002 04:54:25 PM · #25
John or anyone,

So, what is your interpretation of meeting the challenge? What does "On the Road" mean to you?

I think most people are taking this too literally. I was hoping this would be a visual road trip, we would see cows, old barns, diners, hotels, rest stops. Things you would see when "on the road". Not things literally on the road. To me, art is a marriage of creativity and craftsmanship. I was hoping to see a little more creativity.

But you know, when I look at my own work. I have a hard time bringing anyone else down. I am in the 4''s again, and not complaining.





* This message has been edited by the author on 6/10/2002 4:55:20 PM.
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