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04/02/2008 11:09:08 AM · #1 |
I have been "the Russian judge" long enough; I'm trying something new.
10 - I love it! This is the one I wish I had done. It will go in my favorites (unless I really don't like the theme.)
9 - A really wonderful photo. Much like 10, but it reminds me of the difference between an A and an A+, hearkening back to my teacher days.
8 - A fine photo, meets the challenge, maybe not the way I would've interpreted it. B/B+
7 - Good photo, meets the challenge, some technical things that I can recognize that I don't care for. B-
6 - Not a bad photo, not a great photo, a solid C.
5 - Meets the challenge but I don't think it has much merit.
4 - As an ex-Russian judge, I shall idiosyncratically not award 4s.
3 - Doesn't meet challenge, but good photography.
2 - Doesn't meet challenge, undistinguished photography.
1 - Please don't do this again.
In a way, I think the comments can be more important than the numbers. I resolve to be generous with comments. I love other folks' technical comments, don't feel qualified to leave them myself very often, so I mostly stick to overall impression and composition.
(Now I will print this out and stick it by my computer so I can follow what I've laid out.)
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03/27/2008 01:16:41 AM · #2 |
I throw dice.
I read books, more often magazines. I also browse the Internet. Rarely I ask others. Sometimes I check posthumous' tutorial. You can find it here.
I try to educate myself. I always remember that the vote means how bad/good (as if these things have meanings) I am, not the photo.
I return, after two days, after three months, even after a year or two. If I could I'd change some of the votes. But, this happens seldom in this quite homogeneous web-sight.
I have a glass of wine or some oranges. I always listen to music.
All in all, I try to become smart, cool, fancy, sexy, beloved, rich, funny, grown-up, and stuff like these.
But, mainly, I throw dice. |
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03/26/2008 05:28:11 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Eisbaer:
Sorry if this was asked before - feel free to direct me to the thread.
I wanted to know how you all vote. Is a "5" considered a good picture, fitting into the average, and anything over has that something "extra"? Is a 6 very good, and a 7 excellent? (rare?) I haven't participated in that many challenges, and wanted to understand the collective thinking. |
And if your average vote given is 3.5 you are being way too harsh :(
7 should not be a rare score ... in a score out of 10, 10 should be a rare score. |
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03/26/2008 03:26:44 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Eisbaer:
How do you vote? |
I found the only way to vote objectively - I mean without being influenced by what I like or dislike or what I think I know about photography or composition or whether or not I think the subject is ugly, boring, inappropriate, tasteless or not in line with my religious or political preferences, not influenced by my love or hatred for flowers, bugs, cats, dogs or woodies, not biased towards or against what *I* think fits the challenge topic, not impacted by my personal issues, dramas or tragic experiences, my love or hatred for violence or fire (or flames or things on fire or even smoking remains of things that were on fire shortly before the image was taken). No - - through the use of my voting method, I rise above all of that!
And THANK GOD (and the other god, Langdon) for keypad voting because before that it took me FOREVER to vote and if my browser wasn't maximized, I ended up inadvertantly moving files around all over my hard drive! Although I must admit I still have to go through all my comments and correct them from things like this: "noij iofp8 po[!" to something more intelligible. |
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03/26/2008 01:43:34 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by secretagent65:
what is it if someone dresses their cat up like a duck?? :) |
...or dresses their shoehorn up in spectacles and a hat?
I like the way this is heading. |
Exactly, the shoehorn in spectacles and a hat did fall within the guidelines of the challenge and I would vote according to just about every other criteria except DNMC, because it did. :) |
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03/26/2008 01:21:48 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by secretagent65:
what is it if someone dresses their cat up like a duck?? :) |
...or dresses their shoehorn up in spectacles and a hat?
I like the way this is heading.
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03/26/2008 01:17:04 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Gatorguy:
I place roughly equal importance on meeting the challenge as I do on the quality of the image. Since this is a challenge site, that is very important to me. It drives me crazy when I see someones comment that says "I don't think it meets the challenge very well but it's a great photo - 9". Arrrgh! What't the point of the challenge then? |
And, I think it drives me just as crazy to see DNMC - 2 when it does meet the challenge even just a little bit, because to the photog it made perfect sense.
However, your point about this being a challenge site and what's the point of a challenge if people intentionally take a picture of a cat when the challenge is ducks. But then with that... what is it if someone dresses their cat up like a duck?? :) |
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03/26/2008 01:12:59 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by secretagent65:
I'm not against subjective voting there has to be subjective voting, but I feel that interpretation of the challenge is between the photographer and DPC. |
DPC will not disqualify an image for not meeting the challenge, simply because it is such a subjective thing and the site council is only a handful of people. Therefore, leaving that subjective call up to the voting population is, I think, a fair way of doing it. It evens out after 200 votes or so. If I am the only one to deduct a point or two from my vote, it will not have a significant effect on the final score. At most it may make a 1 or 2 place difference in the final standings. If you could enter anything you wanted by using a loose enough interpretation, then why have themed challenges?
Message edited by author 2008-03-26 01:14:37.
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03/26/2008 12:55:45 AM · #9 |
| I place roughly equal importance on meeting the challenge as I do on the quality of the image. Since this is a challenge site, that is very important to me. It drives me crazy when I see someones comment that says "I don't think it meets the challenge very well but it's a great photo - 9". Arrrgh! What't the point of the challenge then? |
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03/26/2008 12:41:52 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Exactly right. I voted and commented that way on the pollution entry you pointed out. I gave it a 6. If it was a "Cityscape" or "Night Lights" challenge, It would have received a 7, perhaps an 8 from me. It was an otherwise excellent entry, and I did see the intended connection with pollution. It was not a shoehorn, but I felt it did not illustrate the theme, and I also let the member know that in my comments. It lost 1 or 2 points from me out of 242 people that voted on it. That only makes a difference if a lot of others vote the same way. Judging from the other comments, that is exactly what happened. I think that is fair and keeps shoehorning to a minimum. There are some who will automatically slam an entry with 1 if the person feels it does not meet the theme.
As another example, take this image:
It scored a 2.29, because of being (accidentally) entered in the "team sports" challenge. Would it have been fair to the other entrants if it won a ribbon when it was totally off topic? an extreme example, to be sure.
I still believe my scoring is fair. Coming in 19th, with a score of 6.29 is pretty darn good, especially when so many people thought it did not fit the theme. Awfully good work on that one. I really like it. |
It's not that I think your (or anyone else who follows a similar standard) is unfair... I'm just trying to better understand your views on the DNMC factor. Its seems almost contradictory to say that you can see the intented connection, but feel it doesn't illustrate the theme. The description did say: Pollution can appear in many forms. Take a photo of pollution of some kind. Is there a better way to represent light pollution?
I understand your example given regarding the "Team Sports" challenge. In that particular case (extreme as you noted and rare) I feel that the photog should have had their entry removed if it truly was an accident.
I'm not against subjective voting there has to be subjective voting, but I feel that interpretation of the challenge is between the photographer and DPC. |
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03/26/2008 12:39:08 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Zeuss:
4,5,6 - Three levels of "meets the challenge". |
That explains some of the scores on my harsh environments entry that were higher than they should have been.
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03/26/2008 12:26:26 AM · #12 |
First impressions are important to me.
Then I go back to see if I missed something.
Images I question, I think about, then give my "vote", answer later. I don't rush.
Numbers are subjective, who cares?
Visuals are subjective, who cares?
Voting is subjective, who cares?
Nothing matters but the end result, and if the photographer that entered the challenge learns anything, and decides to move forward in what they have learned.
The challenge should be looked upon as a test of skill, and not a race for the virtual ribbon.
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03/26/2008 12:19:38 AM · #13 |
I keep it simple:
1,2,3 - Three levels of "doesn't meet the challenge".
4,5,6 - Three levels of "meets the challenge".
7,8,9,10 - Meets the challenge with four levels of "WOW".
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03/26/2008 12:09:34 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by secretagent65:
Not trying to pick on  yospiff though, he just happened to be in the right place for a good example. |
As were you! It is an interesting discussion. Everybody's standards are different and this discussion is helping to explain some of the voting that does do not make sense to me. Zueszen obviously is much more critical. Though his description of his voting roughly matches mine, he clearly judges differently.
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03/25/2008 11:54:57 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by secretagent65:
By your standards you are saying you will give someone a 3 instead of a 5 or a 4 instead of a 6 and you believe it doesn't penalize an image too much? I guess technically it might not if you vote 100% in all the challenges you vote in.
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Exactly right. I voted and commented that way on the pollution entry you pointed out. I gave it a 6. If it was a "Cityscape" or "Night Lights" challenge, It would have received a 7, perhaps an 8 from me. It was an otherwise excellent entry, and I did see the intended connection with pollution. It was not a shoehorn, but I felt it did not illustrate the theme, and I also let the member know that in my comments. It lost 1 or 2 points from me out of 242 people that voted on it. That only makes a difference if a lot of others vote the same way. Judging from the other comments, that is exactly what happened. I think that is fair and keeps shoehorning to a minimum. There are some who will automatically slam an entry with 1 if the person feels it does not meet the theme.
As another example, take this image:
It scored a 2.29, because of being (accidentally) entered in the "team sports" challenge. Would it have been fair to the other entrants if it won a ribbon when it was totally off topic? an extreme example, to be sure.
I still believe my scoring is fair. Coming in 19th, with a score of 6.29 is pretty darn good, especially when so many people thought it did not fit the theme. Awfully good work on that one. I really like it.
Message edited by author 2008-03-25 23:57:48.
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03/25/2008 11:34:01 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by secretagent65:
Was your comment for me or karmat? You quoted us both. |
Hell, I don't know.
(for karmat) |
LOL My question was for Ray... I too should have specified. |
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03/25/2008 11:24:51 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by secretagent65:
Was your comment for me or karmat? You quoted us both. |
Hell, I don't know.
(for karmat)
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03/25/2008 11:14:26 PM · #18 |
| Was your comment for me or karmat? You quoted us both. |
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03/25/2008 10:56:19 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by secretagent65:
I think  zeuszen's voting strategy is quite good. :) |
Interesting. I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I can't resist.
You are calling yospiff to task for dinging a point or two.
You like zeuszen's voting strategy.
yospiff has a voting average of 5.7.
zeus has an average of 3.5
I'll take my chances with yospiff's interpretation, I think. :) |
Which is it that you have a problem with... the "voting strategy" or the "scoring"?
Judging by your comments I would hazard to guess the "Scoring", which in itself does not address the strategy aspect of the exercise.
Ray |
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03/25/2008 10:50:31 PM · #20 |
as of the last few months
7 if I don't like
8 if I kinda like it
9 if I like it
10 if I really like it
Message edited by author 2008-03-25 22:51:11. |
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03/25/2008 10:48:38 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by secretagent65:
I think zeuszen's voting strategy is quite good. :) |
Interesting. I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I can't resist.
You are calling yospiff to task for dinging a point or two.
You like zeuszen's voting strategy.
yospiff has a voting average of 5.7.
zeus has an average of 3.5
I'll take my chances with yospiff's interpretation, I think. :) |
Fair enough, but
you may wish to consider this:
Of the two who, do you think,
would leave you more room to grow?
Of the two, whose 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10
would you value more?
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03/25/2008 10:16:47 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by karmat:
zeus has an average of 3.5 |
What can I say... I like his wording. *shrugs* Doesn't mean I'll apply the numbers quite the same. :) |
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03/25/2008 10:12:22 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Some people give a 1 if they don't think it meets the challenge. I think I'd rather yospiff's 3 or 4. :) |
Point taken ;-)
Not trying to pick on yospiff though, he just happened to be in the right place for a good example. |
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03/25/2008 10:10:03 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by secretagent65:
I think zeuszen's voting strategy is quite good. :) |
Interesting. I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I can't resist.
You are calling yospiff to task for dinging a point or two.
You like zeuszen's voting strategy.
yospiff has a voting average of 5.7.
zeus has an average of 3.5
I'll take my chances with yospiff's interpretation, I think. :)
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03/25/2008 10:09:39 PM · #25 |
I don't use the scale below a 4. Everything is a 4 or higher. A 4 simply does not meet the challenge AND is not at all photographically redeeming. If it meets the challenge or has some quality to it, it gets at least a 5 from me.
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