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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Future of DPC (Note regarding DPL 2)
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03/14/2008 09:25:15 AM · #51
While we are on the subject of the SC, those wonderful volunteers that help make the site go round.

I have suggested previously, and am doing so again, that they have the ability to log in to the site two different ways. One makes them a regular "blue shirt" member so they can hang out like everyone else and debate in the forums etc. The other way makes them show as the coloured shirt SC and they use that one to actually act as an SC while making moderating comments in the forums etc. (with the SC version being non-voting and not-entering of course)

I have seen more than a few examples of comments and jabs being made in the forums that I am sure are not representative of the site by SC members who are doing what comes natural and expressing their own personal opinions. Please let them be able to do so as a normal member and then show themselves as an SC when representing the site, so that there is no confusion as to when they are speaking for themselves or the site.

thank you.
03/14/2008 09:26:08 AM · #52
Originally posted by Nobody:

Two thoughts:

1) Can we remove the DPL "Recent Forum Activity" section on the main page for those that participated? At this point, it's just clutter.

2) I personally don't miss DPL. It was fun for a while, but it I found it detracted from shooting to learn and for the enjoyment of it. If DPL does return, I think I will pass this time. DPC is a better site without it, IMHO.


It is nice to know what NOBODY is thinking! ;)
03/14/2008 09:33:01 AM · #53
I think the DPL should be run completely separate. I also despise the collaboration that goes on here.
03/14/2008 09:35:58 AM · #54
i wish we could fill you guys in more, but really langdon's OP is about everything the SC knows as well.

i do know that the nagging suggestions that you see in the public forums are concentrated about eleventy bajillion times in the SC area. some of us are really pushing for DPL2. some of us are trying to push for better "side challenge" support. some people are focused like laser beams on portfolio upgrades. we've been advocating all of these improvements for some time now.

we're not trying to be all mysterious in our smoke-filled room. we really don't know anything more or we would share.
03/14/2008 09:42:17 AM · #55
Originally posted by pix-al:

My 2pence:

I feel there is a lot of focus on the DPL and I would love to take part, but this area of the site is only open to paid members.

As much as I browse this site every day, I do not have as much free time (or cash!) as I would like to take part in lots of challenges, so the $25 annual cost is something I don't want to pay right now.

If the focus on DPL became any greater I think you would be on the point of alienating many of the Registered users, as there would be so much of the site they cannot take part in (Menu option dedicated to league and many forum topics that pop up are locked to registered users etc.).
I am not saying the DPL being for mambers only is wrong, as there should deffinately be more opportunity for the paid up element of the user base, though I think Langdons opening post is right, in that focus on DPChallenge and its original aim is needed to keep the site going. After all, the DPL is highly dependant on the core site, IE having challenges.

Whatever happens, I look forward to the updates and will get round to "paying up" and hopefully taking part in the league at some point in the future.

AL.


DPL was open to everyone. You did not have to be a member to participate.
03/14/2008 09:42:44 AM · #56
Originally posted by muckpond:

...eleventy bajillion times


Uhm... I think you mean eleventy bajillion and "one" nagging suggestions... if I caounted correctly :P
03/14/2008 09:49:46 AM · #57
I hope that one thing that will come through is larger versions. I for one love to have the option of looking at full screen versions of the shots, to get the wonderful detail captured by the pics. I also find the gray background to be very unattractive generally speaking. It only enhances certain types of pics. I did an experiment with my pics, placing them against a black background versus a gray background. Well, my images really jumped out with the black background. If you don't think this has some effect on voting, try yourself. Take some of the lower scoring images and place them against a black background. Suddenly the shot has a completely different, more vibrant look. I love the side challenges and the idea of groups. Why not make those side challenges into a type of ribbon challenge for those participating? You want ideas? I got a million. Don't do coding so I don't have any idea of space constraints or complexities involved in making everything work, but if it has been done in other places, we have the technology.
03/14/2008 10:04:55 AM · #58
Originally posted by Nobody:

Two thoughts:

1) Can we remove the DPL "Recent Forum Activity" section on the main page for those that participated? At this point, it's just clutter.

2) I personally don't miss DPL. It was fun for a while, but it I found it detracted from shooting to learn and for the enjoyment of it. If DPL does return, I think I will pass this time. DPC is a better site without it, IMHO.


Our team is still using it to keep in touch and encourage each other and help the rest. I hope you don't take it away.

Álex.
03/14/2008 10:08:16 AM · #59
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Langdon is a programmer that he only releases his codes after many tests, unlike most coders I know which end up with very slow and buggy programs (or websites), so I do understand he is taking his time to make things correct from the beginning.

Then you don't know how a programmer's mind works... :)
03/14/2008 10:13:25 AM · #60
Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Langdon is a programmer that he only releases his codes after many tests, unlike most coders I know which end up with very slow and buggy programs (or websites), so I do understand he is taking his time to make things correct from the beginning.

Then you don't know how a programmer's mind works... :)


Why not? I am a programmer, and if there is no rush project, I make sure I test all my codes before release. That doesn't mean they will work perfect, but eliminates bigger problems to start with.

What is your understanding of "Programmer's mind"?
03/14/2008 10:14:48 AM · #61
I think you need to reread my post before you make assumptions. I did not accuse his site of sucking. Quite contrary, I think it is a great site. I did comment that the desire to put off the second season of the DPL sucks big time. See the difference? Threatening to leave, no not really. Just pointing out that the DPL was the reason I stayed. The comment about leaving was to counter the critics who will inevitably state if I don't like it I can leave. I am well aware of that and pointed that fact out so that others didn't have to.

I do beleive that DPC is a great site. But my reason for renewing my membership was not for the site itself rather for the DPL. I can be an unpaid member here and still participate/enjoy the forum. The membership was just an avenue to enter more challenges and enhance my teams chances of acheiving higher scores.

I understand that not everyone likes the DPL. But there are several others that do like it. Sure it isn't for everyone, and neithetr is this site or the type of voting/commenting/lack of commenting that goes on with it. But for those of us that do like the DPL we would like to see it played out. Even if it is a short season that will take us up to the time when the site changes go into effect. The whole point of my post was that the code is already written for the DPL. It doesn't require major reqrites to make it happen. Give us that while the code for the rest of the site is being rewritten.

I think we call that the best of both worlds.

Originally posted by hopper:

Accuse his site of sucking, and then threaten to leave if he doesn't do what you say ... good one

that should work

:/

Originally posted by BHuseman:

I think this absolutely sucks big time! The code is already written for the DPL to run. What more does it take for this site to say ok lets do it. Instead we are forced to sit back and wait for a whole new set of code to be written to make changes to the site. Go ahead and make your changes, but in the mean time flip the switch and run the season two at the same time. I know we aren't forced, we can always leave the site and trust me, when the membership runs out that is probably a distinct possibility. The only and I mean only reason why I renewed my membership last time was for the DPL. If it wasn't for the teammates I had I would have left the site all together. But I stayed because I liked the camaraderie and interaction with them and it made the site more fun.

Bottom line, just run the DPL while you do whatever else it is you want to do. That or, someone please figure out a way to do it on the side. It is a shame that the site decided to take over a feature that they had no intention/capability (or whatever it was) of running or supporting.
03/14/2008 10:29:38 AM · #62
Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Langdon is a programmer that he only releases his codes after many tests, unlike most coders I know which end up with very slow and buggy programs (or websites), so I do understand he is taking his time to make things correct from the beginning.

Then you don't know how a programmer's mind works... :)


Or you could read his blog and realise he's preparing for a wedding, spending his time bowling, ski-ing, learning C++ and no doubt doing a real job as well. All perfectly reasonable things to do - certainly not a knock on what he's doing with his time. However, I think it would be a grand idea to use some of the membership fees to hire a developer for a few months and get the overhaul done. Otherwise it will arrive around the time of DPCPrints 2 and Duke Nukem Forever.

Now I want to go ski-ing...
03/14/2008 10:33:05 AM · #63
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Langdon is a programmer that he only releases his codes after many tests, unlike most coders I know which end up with very slow and buggy programs (or websites), so I do understand he is taking his time to make things correct from the beginning.

Then you don't know how a programmer's mind works... :)


Why not? I am a programmer, and if there is no rush project, I make sure I test all my codes before release. That doesn't mean they will work perfect, but eliminates bigger problems to start with.

What is your understanding of "Programmer's mind"?

I'll link you to 'lazy programmers' to save me retyping it, because I'm a lazy programmer too.

btw, *all* projects are rush projects... :)
03/14/2008 10:34:29 AM · #64
Originally posted by Gordon:

However, I think it would be a grand idea to use some of the membership fees to hire a developer for a few months and get the overhaul done.

Now there's an idea.
03/14/2008 10:44:19 AM · #65
Originally posted by Gordon:

Otherwise it will arrive around the time of DPCPrints 2 and Duke Nukem Forever.


Originally posted by Duke Developers:

And yes, we know the game has taken a long time. There's no possible joke you could make about the game's development time that we haven't already heard.
03/14/2008 10:47:54 AM · #66
Originally posted by jhonan:

...btw, *all* projects are rush projects... :)


I respectfully disagree... My personal projects are not rushed; also some projects "I" get are easy and giving enough time for me to test the heck out of them.

I do understand your point of view, in real life clients don't wait for anything. Sometimes you don't write programs for your client, you write them for in house use, for production... and those programs sometimes take months and years to finish because there are other things go with them, and since there are other programs working for now to do similar jobs, no one feels the rush.

For example, If I would have created DPC, and start... which is running smoothly right now, but there are some changes to be made because of population is getting higher here, demands are increasing, I wouldn't worry too much getting something new up and running, but I would work on it. Langdon's income (as far as I know) not tied into this. It might be, but I doubt it. It is an income, it's a nice income, but only pressure "I" would feel is to answer the calls. Nothing more. He had good amount of time to start and test something good. Although, I think my point was that "he is not a person who would release something that would bring more complains than current one". He wants to improve the site, he probably doesn't want to hear "Put the old code back, it was much better, this one has lots of bugs" from members.

I think programmer's environment is also a factor in our disagreements :)

FP
03/14/2008 10:48:16 AM · #67
Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by Gordon:

However, I think it would be a grand idea to use some of the membership fees to hire a developer for a few months and get the overhaul done.

Now there's an idea.


Can I take the idea one step further? Take DPC up a level from hobbyist community to company. Hire a bus dev manager. Sell products. Employ a part time coder. I'll be free in a few months :)

N
03/14/2008 10:50:16 AM · #68
Originally posted by Quasimojo:

Can I take the idea one step further? Take DPC up a level from hobbyist community to company.

I believe there is already a business entity, "Challenging Technologies, LLC".
03/14/2008 11:00:50 AM · #69
Originally posted by alexgarcia:

Originally posted by Nobody:

Two thoughts:

1) Can we remove the DPL "Recent Forum Activity" section on the main page for those that participated? At this point, it's just clutter.

2) I personally don't miss DPL. It was fun for a while, but it I found it detracted from shooting to learn and for the enjoyment of it. If DPL does return, I think I will pass this time. DPC is a better site without it, IMHO.


Our team is still using it to keep in touch and encourage each other and help the rest. I hope you don't take it away.

Álex.

Yep. We still use our team thread also.
03/14/2008 11:59:12 AM · #70
Maybe post a survey asking what makes this site worth using ... and worth PAYing for ...
my priorities would be this:

the free stuff:
I signed up for fun and competition, a friendly group of people,
and exposure to a bunch of great photogs ...
And the potential to show my stuff on the front page.

I PAY because:
1) I can (theoretically) sell prints
2) I can enter more challenges than not paying
3) The portfolio page
4) I sometimes exist on google because of DPC prints

So my priorities would be in the order of 1-4. DPC prints could probably be taken to the next level -- possibly even to the point where people could us it for "stock" type images (not sure if Langdon wants to go there) but it has that potential.
03/14/2008 12:47:49 PM · #71
The presence of DPL almost drove me away. Seemed to me that when it started the number of submissions shot up (making voting and commenting more time consuming) while the number of comments went down. I view DPC as a place to learn, and DPL works against that.

Perhaps if there were DPL-only challenges that I could specifically avoid??
03/14/2008 12:53:05 PM · #72
I really think this depends on how you utilize this site and the internet in general. I can see what your saying "more images, fewer comments" but if you were part of the DPL, you have the opportunity to discuss your entries with team members, which could actually be more rewarding than getting a simple comment on your image.

EDIT: If you choose to not be on a team, people are still VERY willing to give feedback as desired. You could post your image in a forum thread and say "how could this be better?" etc.

Originally posted by talmy:

The presence of DPL almost drove me away. Seemed to me that when it started the number of submissions shot up (making voting and commenting more time consuming) while the number of comments went down. I view DPC as a place to learn, and DPL works against that.

Perhaps if there were DPL-only challenges that I could specifically avoid??


Message edited by author 2008-03-14 12:54:20.
03/14/2008 01:20:51 PM · #73


The problem that *I* had with the DPL was not that you can discuss your entries with team members, that is a fabulous idea, but Its that the teams were, it seemed, grouped together by talent level, with all the better photographers on this site on just a few teams. How much do the 'Ribbon Hogs' (sorry to pick on one team, but its first one that comes to mind) have to gain from each other? Something sure, but how much MORE would somebody thats just learning photography have to learn from the 'pros' on this site?

*IF* this site is all about learning, this is how the DPL should be set up, IMO:

give a week or two for everybody to join the pool of participants. Figure the size of the pool, the number of members per team that works, accounting for subs, reserves or whatever you want to call them, and take the X number of highest rated photographers as team captains (for team selection purposes if neccesary), and starting with the lowest rated captain, start drafting a la pro sports.

03/14/2008 01:23:34 PM · #74
guys, I don't want to stiffle your voice, but many of the suggestions on how to make DPL better have already been noted when we did evaluations and solicited feedback about DPL1. Our research gathered there is part of the reason we want to change things and part of the reason the DPL hasn't just started up again just as it was!
03/14/2008 01:23:52 PM · #75
Originally posted by metatate:

I really think this depends on how you utilize this site and the internet in general. I can see what your saying "more images, fewer comments" but if you were part of the DPL, you have the opportunity to discuss your entries with team members, which could actually be more rewarding than getting a simple comment on your image.


Ah, but I joined DPC, not DPL! DPL detracts from DPC.

Originally posted by metastate:


EDIT: If you choose to not be on a team, people are still VERY willing to give feedback as desired. You could post your image in a forum thread and say "how could this be better?" etc.


But this should not be necessary. There already is a mechanism in place (although no indication that the photographer solicits comments -- but that is grist for other threads). The forums would be clogged if everyone wanting comments started a new thread!

My guess is that people who enter DPL aren't particularly interested in comments, but are interested in scores. So people who are commenting have two hits -- the number of entries go up, and the percentage of people who want comments goes down. This is a bad situation!

I really think that DPL specific challenges are the way to go.

Message edited by author 2008-03-14 13:26:19.
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